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> JavaScript is analogous to Visual Basic in that it can be used by people with little or no programming experience to quickly construct complex applications.

> JavaScript is analogous to Visual Basic in that it can be used by people with little or no programming experience to quickly construct complex applications. >JavaScript scripts are designed to run on both clients and servers, with JavaScript scripts used to modify the properties and behavior of Java objects, so the range of live online applications that dynamically present information to and interact with users over enterprise networks or the Internet is virtually unlimited. JS has come a long way in 25 years :-)

ethbr0 6y ago
>> can be used by people with little or no programming experience to quickly construct complex applications ... has it? ;-) (Note: joke with deference to the huge pool of incredibly talented js developers! But there are still a lot of mind bogglingly terrible js devs too)
- lostcolony 6y ago
  I think that's something JS also shares with Java, no. A huge number of the people focusing in it are terrible devs.
  - snazz 6y ago
    It's popular and taught in schools, so I don't think this is really surprising.
    - lostcolony 6y ago
      Yeah, was not saying it was surprising. JS is basically required for frontend dev, and the number of bootcamps means a lot of supply, much of which is low grade. Java is super common for large projects at large companies where bad devs can basically be unnoticed, so little wonder there's so many poor Java devs at all levels of experience.
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    The relative trajectories of Java and JavaScript over the years are fascinating. Java became a language that you can toss a 100-developers onto a project for, and incrementally grind out something that has a mostly-consistent architecture. Aka the perfect IBM Services language. JavaScript became a language you can toss up a SPA in a day from boilerplate glueing together frameworks and only writing the use-specific bits. Aka the perfect web developer language. As other commenter said, bad developers are probably a consequence of demand > supply for any language.
- duxup 6y ago
  Presumably anything popular enough has a good chunk of terrible devs? I'm guessing there are some very unpopular languages out there that the % of highly skilled devs is pretty high, but I don't know if that means much ;)
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    Curious about the relative areas of esoterica... Are there bad COBOL developers still practicing? FORTRAN? What about Ada? Erlang? Smalltalk? The mainframe families?
    - Aperocky 6y ago
      There could be bad developer in COBOL but you would never hear about them.
    - johannes1234321 6y ago
      Certainly. Depending on your definition of terrible. There are people who can keep the things running, but only do patch on patch to keep things together, but no architectural work, making more and more mess and we'll knowing they are unreplacable. (Partially encouraged by bad management direction)
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  There are lots of terrible js devs, because js is easy to start with. I bet most js devs would not be able to make a "hello world" in C. And pointers? What is that? So for those people(not meant in a negative way) it is good that they can use a language to get things done, even if they have no academic background.
  - johannes1234321 6y ago
    Even great JavaScript developers don't have to be able to do C and pointer stuff. This has value, but there are many other things which bring more applicable value. However there are toooo many "jQuery developers" with no understanding of the underlying things, while JS+libraries enabled them to do quite fancy things.
    - hutzlibu 6y ago
      Yes, but my point was, if you know about pointers, you are likely a better js dev than average as you have some background knowledge about the computer. And know what memory is and why it is not unlimited. And why some operations are expensive and others not. Also, it did help me recently, working with wasm. Not compiling it yet, but using a libary.
      - johannes1234321 6y ago
        For that I have seen too much code from C hackers, who consider each abstraction bad and try to outsmart the compiler, while seeing great architectures in JavaScript from people who have no idea what a pointer might be. Being capable of two different languages (TS and JS doesn't count ;)) however is a useful indicator.
        hutzlibu 6y ago
        "while seeing great architectures in JavaScript from people who have no idea what a pointer might be." Those people have to be naturals, though. Or really just focused on javascript and only javascript if they know about software architecture but nothing about compilers or pointers. But sure, you definitely can write bad JS, if you are forced to use JS, when you wanted to use C (++) ... which probably happened to a lot of people, which is why we see the hate of JS in that intensity.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
syncsynchalt 6y ago
> JavaScript scripts are designed to run on both clients and servers, Funny how long it took node.js to appear and make this bit of press release a common reality.
- triceratops 6y ago
  Before node.js there was Rhino.

ethbr0 6y ago

>> can be used by people with little or no programming experience to quickly construct complex applications ... has it? ;-) (Note: joke with deference to the huge pool of incredibly talented js developers! But there are still a lot of mind bogglingly terrible js devs too)

lostcolony 6y ago
I think that's something JS also shares with Java, no. A huge number of the people focusing in it are terrible devs.
- snazz 6y ago
  It's popular and taught in schools, so I don't think this is really surprising.
  - lostcolony 6y ago
    Yeah, was not saying it was surprising. JS is basically required for frontend dev, and the number of bootcamps means a lot of supply, much of which is low grade. Java is super common for large projects at large companies where bad devs can basically be unnoticed, so little wonder there's so many poor Java devs at all levels of experience.
- ethbr0 6y ago
  The relative trajectories of Java and JavaScript over the years are fascinating. Java became a language that you can toss a 100-developers onto a project for, and incrementally grind out something that has a mostly-consistent architecture. Aka the perfect IBM Services language. JavaScript became a language you can toss up a SPA in a day from boilerplate glueing together frameworks and only writing the use-specific bits. Aka the perfect web developer language. As other commenter said, bad developers are probably a consequence of demand > supply for any language.
duxup 6y ago
Presumably anything popular enough has a good chunk of terrible devs? I'm guessing there are some very unpopular languages out there that the % of highly skilled devs is pretty high, but I don't know if that means much ;)
- ethbr0 6y ago
  Curious about the relative areas of esoterica... Are there bad COBOL developers still practicing? FORTRAN? What about Ada? Erlang? Smalltalk? The mainframe families?
  - Aperocky 6y ago
    There could be bad developer in COBOL but you would never hear about them.
  - johannes1234321 6y ago
    Certainly. Depending on your definition of terrible. There are people who can keep the things running, but only do patch on patch to keep things together, but no architectural work, making more and more mess and we'll knowing they are unreplacable. (Partially encouraged by bad management direction)
hutzlibu 6y ago
There are lots of terrible js devs, because js is easy to start with. I bet most js devs would not be able to make a "hello world" in C. And pointers? What is that? So for those people(not meant in a negative way) it is good that they can use a language to get things done, even if they have no academic background.
- johannes1234321 6y ago
  Even great JavaScript developers don't have to be able to do C and pointer stuff. This has value, but there are many other things which bring more applicable value. However there are toooo many "jQuery developers" with no understanding of the underlying things, while JS+libraries enabled them to do quite fancy things.
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    Yes, but my point was, if you know about pointers, you are likely a better js dev than average as you have some background knowledge about the computer. And know what memory is and why it is not unlimited. And why some operations are expensive and others not. Also, it did help me recently, working with wasm. Not compiling it yet, but using a libary.
    - johannes1234321 6y ago
      For that I have seen too much code from C hackers, who consider each abstraction bad and try to outsmart the compiler, while seeing great architectures in JavaScript from people who have no idea what a pointer might be. Being capable of two different languages (TS and JS doesn't count ;)) however is a useful indicator.
      - hutzlibu 6y ago
        "while seeing great architectures in JavaScript from people who have no idea what a pointer might be." Those people have to be naturals, though. Or really just focused on javascript and only javascript if they know about software architecture but nothing about compilers or pointers. But sure, you definitely can write bad JS, if you are forced to use JS, when you wanted to use C (++) ... which probably happened to a lot of people, which is why we see the hate of JS in that intensity.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

syncsynchalt 6y ago

> JavaScript scripts are designed to run on both clients and servers, Funny how long it took node.js to appear and make this bit of press release a common reality.

triceratops 6y ago
Before node.js there was Rhino.