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Last time I looked at printers I found no FOSS options. Most of the time, buying a whole new printer costs less than simply buying replacement ink. This is horr

by css 6y ago

Last time I looked at printers I found no FOSS options. Most of the time, buying a whole new printer costs less than simply buying replacement ink. This is horrible for the environment. Are there _any_ alternatives in this space?

_jal 6y ago
Get a laser printer.
- css 6y ago
  I have one. The replacement cartridges are listed on Amazon for $96 and the printer (with ink) is $108.
  - JeremyBanks 6y ago
    The cartridges printers come with often have ~half the capacity of retail cartridges.
    - maxerickson 6y ago
      I haven't used up the starter cartridge in the printer I bought 10 years ago. I'll be tempted to buy a new printer when it fades, to add duplex and get newer wifi.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    The 'ink' (it's really toner) cartridges that come in new printers have a fraction of the levels in them as retail cartridges. They're referred to as 'starter kits' if you look in the small print. You're looking at a false comparison there.
    - SloopJon 6y ago
      That actually wasn't true when I bought a Canon MG6000-something. When the price of the printer went below the price of ink, I bought a second one and stuck it in the attic, which came in handy when the first one died. Both printers came with standard ink cartridges. The HP laser printer I bought recently, on the other hand, did come with starter cartridges with a smaller amount of toner. My impression is that starter cartridges are more common with toner than ink.
    - OkGoDoIt 6y ago
      It depends on the printer. I’ve had pretty good luck with brother laser printers coming with full toner cartridges in the past, although my understanding is on many modern models that isn’t the case anymore. You definitely have to read the fine print.
  - rasz 6y ago
    You can DIY refill toner.
  - stagger87 6y ago
    This is manufacturer specific. The Brother replacement cartridges are half the price of a new printer ($50/$100) and the replacements print ~3x the number of pages (2600) you get with the included cartridge.
    - alexott 6y ago
      I’m buying 2 black + 3 color cartridges for Brother for about 40 euro, sometime even less on sale
    - zrobotics 6y ago
      Plus, the no-name toner cartridges work perfectly fine for Brother printers (I buy 2-4 per month for work). However, do not buy the non-brand drums, they are a waste of money; the genuine Brother drums last 4x longer.
  - qohen 6y ago
    You can get 3rd party toner cartridges for a fraction of the price of official cartridges. Just get the model # for the cartridges and look for a supplier on Amazon who seems reputable and where the product gets good reviews. In my case, I've been buying 3rd party toner cartridges for my parents' Canon D300 laser printer/copier for years. First through one company I found on the internet years ago and then, when they closed up shop, I found another on Amazon -- I paid $20 for the cartridge I bought this past May (the official cartridge is about $109).
  - lscotte 6y ago
    Which is why I buy the Chinese cartridges from Amazon that are 1/4 the price and work just as well.
Cytobit 6y ago
> Most of the time, buying a whole new printer costs less than simply buying replacement ink. Why do people always say this? You can't determine if that is actually cheaper unless you know how much ink the printer comes with. I am genuinely curious.
andrewblossom 6y ago
These are a decent alternative: https://epson.com/ecotank-ink-tank-printers https://epson.com/ecotank-ink-tank-printers. There is no DRM on liquid ink.
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  Those are nice if you have high volume printing needs, but at around $200 for the lowest end model, it will take a long time for most people to realize the value there. Lots of people just need a few pages per month which is why the cheap cartridge printers are so popular and why a lot of people will just cope with HP's $0.99/ month. I'm not keen on HPs deal here, but it would be difficult for many to justify that $200 up front cost when it'll take 10 years to recoup it and ink jets often don't last that long.
  - jrochkind1 6y ago
    > but at around $200 for the lowest end model, it will take a long time for most people to realize the value there. I'm not sure that's true. The cheaper printers people are buying are cheaper because the manufacturer makes it up on the egregiously priced ink. It depends on how much printing you do, but I doubt it'll take you 10 years to recoup or longer than the life of the printer. Has anyone done any numbers? How much are you paying for a cheap HP printer anyway? I don't buy em, I'm not sure what they go for. I bought a B&W Brother laser for ~200, and am happy with my purchase.
Sohcahtoa82 6y ago
> Most of the time, buying a whole new printer costs less than simply buying replacement ink. Any time printers are brought up, someone says this. And every time, I feel I have to point out that the cartridges that come with a printer are starter cartridges. They contain significantly less ink/toner than a replacement cartridge. If you are buying a new printer rather than new cartridges, you are NOT saving money. This is not HP-specific, either. AFAIK, every printer manufacturer does this. I have a Dell laser printer and I'm fairly certain that the toner cartridges that came with it are rated for 200 pages, while replacements are rated at 800 pages.
- lallysingh 6y ago
  My brothers have all come with regular full cartridges
  - paxys 6y ago
    Yeah but those don't go for $25
- smileybarry 6y ago
  It used to be true, though. Back in 2004 or so you got full cartridges along with new printers, and the printer cost less than an ink set would. So a friend at the time would buy a new printer every time theirs ran out of ink. He had a leaning tower of printers in his closet (and about half a dozen drivers installed). Later on they started including "starter cartridges" instead. (And even reduced those from 1/2 to 1/4 at some point)
- varispeed 6y ago
  > I feel I have to point out that the cartridges that come with a printer are starter cartridges. They contain significantly less ink/toner than a replacement cartridge. Even accounting for that, I remember it was still cheaper to buy a new printer.
jrochkind1 6y ago
> buying a whole new printer costs less than simply buying replacement ink. Because they sell the printer at a loss to get you to buy the ink, the ink is their real business. This is exactly why HP is so concerned with forcing you to buy only HP ink. See also razors and blades. But I agree it would be nice to have some kind of FOSS printer without DRM etc. This came up recently on another HN post, and people had various hypotheses for why this hadn't happened, but I don't recall the article to find it now.

by css 6y ago

_jal 6y ago

Get a laser printer.

css 6y ago
I have one. The replacement cartridges are listed on Amazon for $96 and the printer (with ink) is $108.
- JeremyBanks 6y ago
  The cartridges printers come with often have ~half the capacity of retail cartridges.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    I haven't used up the starter cartridge in the printer I bought 10 years ago. I'll be tempted to buy a new printer when it fades, to add duplex and get newer wifi.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  The 'ink' (it's really toner) cartridges that come in new printers have a fraction of the levels in them as retail cartridges. They're referred to as 'starter kits' if you look in the small print. You're looking at a false comparison there.
  - SloopJon 6y ago
    That actually wasn't true when I bought a Canon MG6000-something. When the price of the printer went below the price of ink, I bought a second one and stuck it in the attic, which came in handy when the first one died. Both printers came with standard ink cartridges. The HP laser printer I bought recently, on the other hand, did come with starter cartridges with a smaller amount of toner. My impression is that starter cartridges are more common with toner than ink.
  - OkGoDoIt 6y ago
    It depends on the printer. I’ve had pretty good luck with brother laser printers coming with full toner cartridges in the past, although my understanding is on many modern models that isn’t the case anymore. You definitely have to read the fine print.
- rasz 6y ago
  You can DIY refill toner.
- stagger87 6y ago
  This is manufacturer specific. The Brother replacement cartridges are half the price of a new printer ($50/$100) and the replacements print ~3x the number of pages (2600) you get with the included cartridge.
  - alexott 6y ago
    I’m buying 2 black + 3 color cartridges for Brother for about 40 euro, sometime even less on sale
  - zrobotics 6y ago
    Plus, the no-name toner cartridges work perfectly fine for Brother printers (I buy 2-4 per month for work). However, do not buy the non-brand drums, they are a waste of money; the genuine Brother drums last 4x longer.
- qohen 6y ago
  You can get 3rd party toner cartridges for a fraction of the price of official cartridges. Just get the model # for the cartridges and look for a supplier on Amazon who seems reputable and where the product gets good reviews. In my case, I've been buying 3rd party toner cartridges for my parents' Canon D300 laser printer/copier for years. First through one company I found on the internet years ago and then, when they closed up shop, I found another on Amazon -- I paid $20 for the cartridge I bought this past May (the official cartridge is about $109).
- lscotte 6y ago
  Which is why I buy the Chinese cartridges from Amazon that are 1/4 the price and work just as well.

Cytobit 6y ago

> Most of the time, buying a whole new printer costs less than simply buying replacement ink. Why do people always say this? You can't determine if that is actually cheaper unless you know how much ink the printer comes with. I am genuinely curious.

andrewblossom 6y ago

These are a decent alternative: https://epson.com/ecotank-ink-tank-printers https://epson.com/ecotank-ink-tank-printers. There is no DRM on liquid ink.

ogre_codes 6y ago
Those are nice if you have high volume printing needs, but at around $200 for the lowest end model, it will take a long time for most people to realize the value there. Lots of people just need a few pages per month which is why the cheap cartridge printers are so popular and why a lot of people will just cope with HP's $0.99/ month. I'm not keen on HPs deal here, but it would be difficult for many to justify that $200 up front cost when it'll take 10 years to recoup it and ink jets often don't last that long.
- jrochkind1 6y ago
  > but at around $200 for the lowest end model, it will take a long time for most people to realize the value there. I'm not sure that's true. The cheaper printers people are buying are cheaper because the manufacturer makes it up on the egregiously priced ink. It depends on how much printing you do, but I doubt it'll take you 10 years to recoup or longer than the life of the printer. Has anyone done any numbers? How much are you paying for a cheap HP printer anyway? I don't buy em, I'm not sure what they go for. I bought a B&W Brother laser for ~200, and am happy with my purchase.

Sohcahtoa82 6y ago

> Most of the time, buying a whole new printer costs less than simply buying replacement ink. Any time printers are brought up, someone says this. And every time, I feel I have to point out that the cartridges that come with a printer are starter cartridges. They contain significantly less ink/toner than a replacement cartridge. If you are buying a new printer rather than new cartridges, you are NOT saving money. This is not HP-specific, either. AFAIK, every printer manufacturer does this. I have a Dell laser printer and I'm fairly certain that the toner cartridges that came with it are rated for 200 pages, while replacements are rated at 800 pages.

lallysingh 6y ago
My brothers have all come with regular full cartridges
- paxys 6y ago
  Yeah but those don't go for $25
smileybarry 6y ago
It used to be true, though. Back in 2004 or so you got full cartridges along with new printers, and the printer cost less than an ink set would. So a friend at the time would buy a new printer every time theirs ran out of ink. He had a leaning tower of printers in his closet (and about half a dozen drivers installed). Later on they started including "starter cartridges" instead. (And even reduced those from 1/2 to 1/4 at some point)
varispeed 6y ago
> I feel I have to point out that the cartridges that come with a printer are starter cartridges. They contain significantly less ink/toner than a replacement cartridge. Even accounting for that, I remember it was still cheaper to buy a new printer.

jrochkind1 6y ago

> buying a whole new printer costs less than simply buying replacement ink. Because they sell the printer at a loss to get you to buy the ink, the ink is their real business. This is exactly why HP is so concerned with forcing you to buy only HP ink. See also razors and blades. But I agree it would be nice to have some kind of FOSS printer without DRM etc. This came up recently on another HN post, and people had various hypotheses for why this hadn't happened, but I don't recall the article to find it now.