17 ms·

E-waste is a massive problem nowadays. Why not assemble the lab out of "old" computers? They might take a bit more electricity to run, but, at least in the US,

E-waste is a massive problem nowadays. Why not assemble the lab out of "old" computers? They might take a bit more electricity to run, but, at least in the US, you can get truckloads of computers that were destined for the scrapyard, for free. One local school here threw away 50+ small dell quad-core i5's in their quest to make sure they spend their money wisely. I've assembled a small lab, with many computers, laser printers, scanners, tablets, projectors, big-screens, etc. Without spending a single dollar on hardware. This has two effects, it reuses a resource that was destined for destruction, and it doesn't add fuel ($$$) to the ecological dumpster fire that is modern capitalism.

raverbashing 6y ago
I don't know why you're downvoted. This is exactly how it's done in many places. A 10yr old computer is perfectly fine for this, maybe even older. Yes it might not play all youtube videos, but it works.
- 101008 6y ago
  Because probably that's not the situation in India.
  - raverbashing 6y ago
    What do you mean by "not the situation"? That they can't afford old computers? That it's not practical? That they don't need and can buy newer ones?
    - dbancajas 6y ago
      The schools in india can barely afford computer. and so are not throwing them away 1-2 years later.
      - paleogizmo 6y ago
        The better question is what the used enterprise computer market is in India. Given that engineering salaries are no longer an order of magnitude less than the USA, I would assume that there would be a large secondary market of sub $200 laptops and SFF desktops. Is that not the case? Do businesses keep them till the wheels fall off? Do they get exported overseas? Can schools not compete on price with middle class consumers for used computers?
    - untog 6y ago
      I think they are implying that situations where 50+ small dell quad-core i5s are being discarded is not common in India.
      - raverbashing 6y ago
        That's why I'm talking about 10yr old computers (or maybe even older)
itsoktocry 6y ago
>One local school here threw away 50+ small dell quad-core i5's in their quest to make sure they spend their money wisely. I think broad computer illiteracy in the general population has convinced people that you "need" a new, powerful computer. In reality, 95% of the population can get away with any decent computer from the last 10 years. Grandma isn't training a neural net, she's checking Facebook. I continue to use a 2nd generation i3 desktop as a "daily driver" for a lot of my computing/server needs, without issue.
- NikolaNovak 6y ago
  Agreed; I've been getting refurbished ThinkPads for my entire family for 10-15 years now. Currently they're all enjoying T420 and T420s - technically a 9 year old laptop but goes up to 16GB of RAM if needed, will take an SSD easily, and runs everything necessary on Windows 10 easily enough. the S version in particular is as slim as you need a laptop to be, while still being completely modular, i.e. easily repairable and upgradable. My primary laptop is a newer T25 because I couldn't resist the keyboard, but my primary desktop is still a 9-year old AMD FX8350; with 32GB of RAM and SATA SSD, I game, Lightroom, Photoshop, VMWare Workstation, and anything else I need easily enough.
- flyinghamster 6y ago
  These days, even a low-end Android phone, taken back forty years, would be a supercomputer beyond anything that existed then. Unfortunately, layer after layer of framework on abstraction on framework on abstraction sometimes means that we need a supercomputer to render a user interface, and still end up with perceptible lag. :) Regarding elsewhere where I mentioned running BOINC on a Pi 4B, I'd also note that (at least from a RAC standpoint) it's almost up there with a ThinkPad X201 Tablet with an i7-640LM throttled to 1.2 GHz. If I switch the BIOS from "balanced" to "performance" mode, the ThinkPad will run a bit faster but within an inch of thermal shutdown. I might be able to overclock the Pi enough to achieve parity with the throttled i7. Eight years ago, I'd never had guessed that we'd see the Pi turn the corner to become a usable general-purpose desktop.
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
dbancajas 6y ago
how did you find out about the local school throwing away 50+ small dell quad-core i5s?
- elteto 6y ago
  Check your county/state/school auction websites. Hard to give more info, there isn’t just one auction site for all schools or counties, but a bit of googling will probably get you what you want.
  - NewOrderNow 6y ago
    How do you find about these auctions? I always here about them in movies, but I have never experienced these real auctions.
    - NortySpock 6y ago
      A friend pointed me at https://www.govdeals.com https://www.govdeals.com (not affiliated) but plugging "government auctions" into Google got me a few hits as well. Not sure about the veracity of all of these sites, but some of them will ship to you. On the other hand, you're often looking at "Lot of 38 Dell Latitude 5570 Core i7", "These items have been used by students or employees within a professional Community College environment. Items have been maintained, updated, and well kept.", minimum bid $5,800.00 Or something like "(1) Dell Optiplex 780, bad power supply, pickup in-person only, we don't ship" so you'd have to be in the area and interested in swapping a PSU.
zeckalpha 6y ago
Electricity utilization is another dimension. A Pi can run off batteries or a hand crank in the worst case.
bitwize 6y ago
A few months back I literally found a computer by a dumpster in the rain. It was some corporate castoff from a local investment firm. I brought it in, dried it off, let it dry thoroughly for a few days, and examined it, and the innards looked to be brand-spanking-new with no rust or damage in sight. After installing a hard disk (its original hard disk was removed and presumably erased or shredded), it was ready to go. It's a pretty sweet machine too, an HP Elite 8300MT from about 2012 or so. It has one of those side panels that can be removed by working a latch with your hand -- no screws necessary. I'm making it into a build server.
brainless 6y ago
I agree with you and I want to look into that too. But I am not sure it would be easy to order such computers, in working conditions, as easily as this RPi. If the logistic hassle is too much, it might not take off at all.
slightwinder 6y ago
Old Computers are usually rather big, heavy and a bit limited in their ability in terms of interfaces. Like they often have no sd-card-slot, bluetooth or wifi. And yes, they need more power. This RP400 is small, can be taken everywhere by kids, has all necessary interfaces to make something funny and can on worst even run from a manual energy-source (which of course is more relevant for a poorer country than a rich country). I can see kids taking this RP400 around like a (paper)notebook, work with them at school, home, their friends home or somewhere else and motivating them to use them more than some stationary device. And because of the hdmi they even can switch places fast if neccessary, limiting the interuptions in their work.
- ant6n 6y ago
  It doesn’t have a battery, right? So you can’t just unplug it and replug it elsewhere without shutting down.
- kllrnohj 6y ago
  > This RP400 is small, can be taken everywhere by kids Not usefully it can't. There's no display, so that "everywhere" is restricted to places that have an HDMI display just hanging out. Which is then a vanishingly small number of places. And since we're talking about kids - places with a front panel HDMI port, which is even rarer. Or you have to pair it with a portable monitor, in which case you spent as much as an entry level laptop and got something worse in return. This is a cute little toy, and I want one, but that's all it is - a toy. Same as all the RPI's before. Good intro to hobby electronics programming with the GPIO, but not a disruptive entry-level computing experience, either. That place remains in the realm of the ultra-budget laptops, as they require no existing infrastructure.
  - tomcam 6y ago
    > "everywhere" is restricted to places that have an HDMI display just hanging out. Which is then a vanishingly small number of places. Wait what? Doesn't virtually every TV sold in the last 10 years have an HDMI port?
justin66 6y ago
> E-waste is a massive problem nowadays. Why not assemble the lab out of "old" computers? They might take a bit more electricity to run In the developing world electricity tends to be very scarce. Raspberry Pis, and stuff of that sort, are ideal for that environment.
Chris2048 6y ago
> They might take a bit more electricity to run But how much more? Just "a bit" or a significant amount?
chrisweekly 6y ago
I like what you do and why you do it; do you have a blog or website?
- minerjoe 6y ago
  Sorry, I do, but it is geofenced to the local community. You're welcome to email, in my profile. We're working on something world facing, but there are massive benefits to having a local cloud. For one, all of our communications never leave town. Fuck PRISM.

raverbashing 6y ago

I don't know why you're downvoted. This is exactly how it's done in many places. A 10yr old computer is perfectly fine for this, maybe even older. Yes it might not play all youtube videos, but it works.

101008 6y ago
Because probably that's not the situation in India.
- raverbashing 6y ago
  What do you mean by "not the situation"? That they can't afford old computers? That it's not practical? That they don't need and can buy newer ones?
  - dbancajas 6y ago
    The schools in india can barely afford computer. and so are not throwing them away 1-2 years later.
    - paleogizmo 6y ago
      The better question is what the used enterprise computer market is in India. Given that engineering salaries are no longer an order of magnitude less than the USA, I would assume that there would be a large secondary market of sub $200 laptops and SFF desktops. Is that not the case? Do businesses keep them till the wheels fall off? Do they get exported overseas? Can schools not compete on price with middle class consumers for used computers?
  - untog 6y ago
    I think they are implying that situations where 50+ small dell quad-core i5s are being discarded is not common in India.
    - raverbashing 6y ago
      That's why I'm talking about 10yr old computers (or maybe even older)

itsoktocry 6y ago

>One local school here threw away 50+ small dell quad-core i5's in their quest to make sure they spend their money wisely. I think broad computer illiteracy in the general population has convinced people that you "need" a new, powerful computer. In reality, 95% of the population can get away with any decent computer from the last 10 years. Grandma isn't training a neural net, she's checking Facebook. I continue to use a 2nd generation i3 desktop as a "daily driver" for a lot of my computing/server needs, without issue.

NikolaNovak 6y ago
Agreed; I've been getting refurbished ThinkPads for my entire family for 10-15 years now. Currently they're all enjoying T420 and T420s - technically a 9 year old laptop but goes up to 16GB of RAM if needed, will take an SSD easily, and runs everything necessary on Windows 10 easily enough. the S version in particular is as slim as you need a laptop to be, while still being completely modular, i.e. easily repairable and upgradable. My primary laptop is a newer T25 because I couldn't resist the keyboard, but my primary desktop is still a 9-year old AMD FX8350; with 32GB of RAM and SATA SSD, I game, Lightroom, Photoshop, VMWare Workstation, and anything else I need easily enough.
flyinghamster 6y ago
These days, even a low-end Android phone, taken back forty years, would be a supercomputer beyond anything that existed then. Unfortunately, layer after layer of framework on abstraction on framework on abstraction sometimes means that we need a supercomputer to render a user interface, and still end up with perceptible lag. :) Regarding elsewhere where I mentioned running BOINC on a Pi 4B, I'd also note that (at least from a RAC standpoint) it's almost up there with a ThinkPad X201 Tablet with an i7-640LM throttled to 1.2 GHz. If I switch the BIOS from "balanced" to "performance" mode, the ThinkPad will run a bit faster but within an inch of thermal shutdown. I might be able to overclock the Pi enough to achieve parity with the throttled i7. Eight years ago, I'd never had guessed that we'd see the Pi turn the corner to become a usable general-purpose desktop.
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago

dbancajas 6y ago

how did you find out about the local school throwing away 50+ small dell quad-core i5s?

elteto 6y ago
Check your county/state/school auction websites. Hard to give more info, there isn’t just one auction site for all schools or counties, but a bit of googling will probably get you what you want.
- NewOrderNow 6y ago
  How do you find about these auctions? I always here about them in movies, but I have never experienced these real auctions.
  - NortySpock 6y ago
    A friend pointed me at https://www.govdeals.com https://www.govdeals.com (not affiliated) but plugging "government auctions" into Google got me a few hits as well. Not sure about the veracity of all of these sites, but some of them will ship to you. On the other hand, you're often looking at "Lot of 38 Dell Latitude 5570 Core i7", "These items have been used by students or employees within a professional Community College environment. Items have been maintained, updated, and well kept.", minimum bid $5,800.00 Or something like "(1) Dell Optiplex 780, bad power supply, pickup in-person only, we don't ship" so you'd have to be in the area and interested in swapping a PSU.

zeckalpha 6y ago

Electricity utilization is another dimension. A Pi can run off batteries or a hand crank in the worst case.

bitwize 6y ago

A few months back I literally found a computer by a dumpster in the rain. It was some corporate castoff from a local investment firm. I brought it in, dried it off, let it dry thoroughly for a few days, and examined it, and the innards looked to be brand-spanking-new with no rust or damage in sight. After installing a hard disk (its original hard disk was removed and presumably erased or shredded), it was ready to go. It's a pretty sweet machine too, an HP Elite 8300MT from about 2012 or so. It has one of those side panels that can be removed by working a latch with your hand -- no screws necessary. I'm making it into a build server.

brainless 6y ago

I agree with you and I want to look into that too. But I am not sure it would be easy to order such computers, in working conditions, as easily as this RPi. If the logistic hassle is too much, it might not take off at all.

slightwinder 6y ago

Old Computers are usually rather big, heavy and a bit limited in their ability in terms of interfaces. Like they often have no sd-card-slot, bluetooth or wifi. And yes, they need more power. This RP400 is small, can be taken everywhere by kids, has all necessary interfaces to make something funny and can on worst even run from a manual energy-source (which of course is more relevant for a poorer country than a rich country). I can see kids taking this RP400 around like a (paper)notebook, work with them at school, home, their friends home or somewhere else and motivating them to use them more than some stationary device. And because of the hdmi they even can switch places fast if neccessary, limiting the interuptions in their work.

ant6n 6y ago
It doesn’t have a battery, right? So you can’t just unplug it and replug it elsewhere without shutting down.
kllrnohj 6y ago
> This RP400 is small, can be taken everywhere by kids Not usefully it can't. There's no display, so that "everywhere" is restricted to places that have an HDMI display just hanging out. Which is then a vanishingly small number of places. And since we're talking about kids - places with a front panel HDMI port, which is even rarer. Or you have to pair it with a portable monitor, in which case you spent as much as an entry level laptop and got something worse in return. This is a cute little toy, and I want one, but that's all it is - a toy. Same as all the RPI's before. Good intro to hobby electronics programming with the GPIO, but not a disruptive entry-level computing experience, either. That place remains in the realm of the ultra-budget laptops, as they require no existing infrastructure.
- tomcam 6y ago
  > "everywhere" is restricted to places that have an HDMI display just hanging out. Which is then a vanishingly small number of places. Wait what? Doesn't virtually every TV sold in the last 10 years have an HDMI port?

justin66 6y ago

> E-waste is a massive problem nowadays. Why not assemble the lab out of "old" computers? They might take a bit more electricity to run In the developing world electricity tends to be very scarce. Raspberry Pis, and stuff of that sort, are ideal for that environment.

Chris2048 6y ago

> They might take a bit more electricity to run But how much more? Just "a bit" or a significant amount?

chrisweekly 6y ago

I like what you do and why you do it; do you have a blog or website?

minerjoe 6y ago
Sorry, I do, but it is geofenced to the local community. You're welcome to email, in my profile. We're working on something world facing, but there are massive benefits to having a local cloud. For one, all of our communications never leave town. Fuck PRISM.