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It's been known since at least 2014 that this company has been selling software to regimes that violate human rights, squash freedom of information, and monitor

It's been known since at least 2014 that this company has been selling software to regimes that violate human rights, squash freedom of information, and monitor pro-democracy activists. They were hacked and their client list was leaked, to which they responded "we have some integrity. We don't sell to Israel". (https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-govt-spyware-company-hacked-gammas-finfisher-leaked/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-govt-spyware-company-hacke...) It's taken a long time but it's good to see that the wheels of justice have finally caught up with this scummy mercenary company. It is dirtying the name of the information security field, and engineers who have worked for them or similar surveillance software should be ashamed.

mschuster91 6y ago
> They were hacked and their client list was leaked, to which they responded "we have some integrity. We don't sell to Israel". (https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-govt-spyware-company-hacke https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-govt-spyware-company-hacke...) The quote is from a fake account run by the hackers. There is (at least to my knowledge) no indication that they're antisemites. Doesn't make the situation better, though.
- hyper_reality 6y ago
  Thanks for the fact check, I didn't read that article closely enough.
- gotstad 6y ago
  Bring critical of Israel (a nation) does NOT equate antisemitism (a religion).
  - tobessebot 6y ago
    It does if that's the only standard you apply in choosing to whom you deliver a product. If you sell to despotic regimes and not to Israel, you're criticism of Israel is anti-semitic.
    - VBprogrammer 6y ago
      This argument seems very similar to the argument that not all Trump supporters are racists but (practically) all racists are Trump supporters. There is a very difficult line to tread here, to me it feels like any inference between the state of Israel and the Jewish faith is itself somewhat anti-semitic, or at least it should be. However, the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition itself does it so I am probably wide of the mark.
      - 534dfsdr 6y ago
        I think such generalizations are almost always false. Plenty of people oppose Israel for purely political reasons, not because they dislike Jews. Many American racists don't support Trump either - I doubt that for example black supremacists, who are just as racist as their white counterparts, like him very much.
  - sam_lowry_ 6y ago
    How is antisemitism a religion? Judaism is. Anti-judaism... is, logically, against the judaism, but not all religions, so even anti-judaism won't qualify.
- tomcooks 6y ago
  What does being against unlawful colonization of territories have to do with antisemitism? Being against Israel as a nation has NOTHING to do with being against Jews (which is only part of the Israeli population) and it's called antizionism. How else would you explain antizionist Jewish orthodox communities?
  - luckylion 6y ago
    > What does being against unlawful colonization of territories have to do with antisemitism? If you'd sell to Turkey, Saudi-Arabia & co and then say "we have some standards, we won't sell to Israel", yeah, you'd not be against colonization, occupation etc, you'd be against Israel specifically for other reasons.
    - aesh2Xa1 6y ago
      Israel enjoys a special status through it's relationship (partnership) with Western powers. It also enjoys power. I agree that Turkey's genocide against Armenians is evil. It's taken too long to acknowledge that. I'm not too clear on the Saudi Arabia accusation, but I think you're referencing Yemen. Still, imagine you're German and you've received an education, growing up, completely condemning the evil that the WWII Nazis committed against the Jewish people. Imagine that to refute the history of that evil is, in fact, a crime — a crime of speech and ideology. Then imagine learning that the Jewish state made available by partitioning land has grown, considerably, since its initial allocation post-WWII. Imagine learning that the growth exactly resembles of actions of WWII Nazis against Jews, only now by Zionist Jews against Palestinians. Israel has all the makings of a great country. In my mind, it has succeeded thoroughly. Despite my above criticism, I wish it success. I hope it makes humanitarian strides to acknowledge its wrongdoing and make reparations. I'd only point out that its specific actions against Palestinians did happen and continue to happen today and it is an evil. If you're German, you might feel especially emotional about it, given the shared history.
      - IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
        I don’t have to “imagine” what you’re describing, as I’m in the same situation. But, unlike you, I don’t despair at the (mild) cognitive dissonance you’re describing. The Holocaust, and its uniqueness, are fact. Israel’s behavior towards Palestinians today is reprehensible. These are neither incompatible, nor does the latter diminish the former. We can expect more from Israel than, say, Sudan, because it is a democracy, relatively rich, and part of “the west”. To instead use the Holocaust to place additional burdens on them is cynical. So stop whining about your youth. It was probably terrible, but the Jews weren’t involved in that. And, unlike many of them, you got to survive to adulthood.
v77 6y ago
Like the rest of Germany, then? When is Nord Stream 2 finishing?
BMSmnqXAE4yfe1 6y ago
They don't sell to Israel not because they are ethical, but because Israel is by itself #1 producer of spyware and sells to all kinds of dictatorships too.

mschuster91 6y ago

> They were hacked and their client list was leaked, to which they responded "we have some integrity. We don't sell to Israel". (https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-govt-spyware-company-hacke https://www.zdnet.com/article/top-govt-spyware-company-hacke...) The quote is from a fake account run by the hackers. There is (at least to my knowledge) no indication that they're antisemites. Doesn't make the situation better, though.

hyper_reality 6y ago
Thanks for the fact check, I didn't read that article closely enough.
gotstad 6y ago
Bring critical of Israel (a nation) does NOT equate antisemitism (a religion).
- tobessebot 6y ago
  It does if that's the only standard you apply in choosing to whom you deliver a product. If you sell to despotic regimes and not to Israel, you're criticism of Israel is anti-semitic.
  - VBprogrammer 6y ago
    This argument seems very similar to the argument that not all Trump supporters are racists but (practically) all racists are Trump supporters. There is a very difficult line to tread here, to me it feels like any inference between the state of Israel and the Jewish faith is itself somewhat anti-semitic, or at least it should be. However, the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition itself does it so I am probably wide of the mark.
    - 534dfsdr 6y ago
      I think such generalizations are almost always false. Plenty of people oppose Israel for purely political reasons, not because they dislike Jews. Many American racists don't support Trump either - I doubt that for example black supremacists, who are just as racist as their white counterparts, like him very much.
- sam_lowry_ 6y ago
  How is antisemitism a religion? Judaism is. Anti-judaism... is, logically, against the judaism, but not all religions, so even anti-judaism won't qualify.
tomcooks 6y ago
What does being against unlawful colonization of territories have to do with antisemitism? Being against Israel as a nation has NOTHING to do with being against Jews (which is only part of the Israeli population) and it's called antizionism. How else would you explain antizionist Jewish orthodox communities?
- luckylion 6y ago
  > What does being against unlawful colonization of territories have to do with antisemitism? If you'd sell to Turkey, Saudi-Arabia & co and then say "we have some standards, we won't sell to Israel", yeah, you'd not be against colonization, occupation etc, you'd be against Israel specifically for other reasons.
  - aesh2Xa1 6y ago
    Israel enjoys a special status through it's relationship (partnership) with Western powers. It also enjoys power. I agree that Turkey's genocide against Armenians is evil. It's taken too long to acknowledge that. I'm not too clear on the Saudi Arabia accusation, but I think you're referencing Yemen. Still, imagine you're German and you've received an education, growing up, completely condemning the evil that the WWII Nazis committed against the Jewish people. Imagine that to refute the history of that evil is, in fact, a crime — a crime of speech and ideology. Then imagine learning that the Jewish state made available by partitioning land has grown, considerably, since its initial allocation post-WWII. Imagine learning that the growth exactly resembles of actions of WWII Nazis against Jews, only now by Zionist Jews against Palestinians. Israel has all the makings of a great country. In my mind, it has succeeded thoroughly. Despite my above criticism, I wish it success. I hope it makes humanitarian strides to acknowledge its wrongdoing and make reparations. I'd only point out that its specific actions against Palestinians did happen and continue to happen today and it is an evil. If you're German, you might feel especially emotional about it, given the shared history.
    - IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
      I don’t have to “imagine” what you’re describing, as I’m in the same situation. But, unlike you, I don’t despair at the (mild) cognitive dissonance you’re describing. The Holocaust, and its uniqueness, are fact. Israel’s behavior towards Palestinians today is reprehensible. These are neither incompatible, nor does the latter diminish the former. We can expect more from Israel than, say, Sudan, because it is a democracy, relatively rich, and part of “the west”. To instead use the Holocaust to place additional burdens on them is cynical. So stop whining about your youth. It was probably terrible, but the Jews weren’t involved in that. And, unlike many of them, you got to survive to adulthood.

v77 6y ago

Like the rest of Germany, then? When is Nord Stream 2 finishing?

BMSmnqXAE4yfe1 6y ago

They don't sell to Israel not because they are ethical, but because Israel is by itself #1 producer of spyware and sells to all kinds of dictatorships too.