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Amnesty International India Halts Its Work in India Due to Government Reprisal

254 points by johnnydoe9 6y ago

nilsocket 6y ago
As per my knowledge goes, All foreign funded organisations, under so called NGO's name should be completely under scan. These NGO's are not helping people, what they are doing is propaganda, support terrosits, conversions. Christian missionaries conversions are so rampant in India, Most of north-east is converted, punjab, tamil-nadu, andhra Pradesh, Kerala, are in-line for huge demographics change. If this is not enough, these organisations which are belong to far-left even create riots, trying to white-wash historical atrocities, shame majority population, support terrosits, anti-government. We are unable to bear the wrath which is being unleashed by foreign agencies on our country. We just want to live, leave us alone.
- singemonkey 6y ago
  Oh dear. The mindset behind comments like this is not helpful at all. Please stop perpetuating such arrant nonsense.
- atfzl 6y ago
  And where are you getting all this knowledge from?
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    I follow news daily from various sources.
- postingawayonhn 6y ago
  Their operations in India are financed by donations form Indians. From the linked update: > For human rights work in India, it operates through a distinct model of raising funds domestically. More than four million Indians have supported Amnesty International India’s work in the last eight years and around 100,000 Indians have made financial contributions.
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    That's what happens, when you believe in propaganda. What do you say about this, https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875...
    - srean 6y ago
      … I believe your view is that ARanganathan72 is not a well known rightwing propaganda handle. OK, if you say so.
- harshitaneja 6y ago
  It would be more helpful if you could substantiate your claims with some reliable references. Otherwise it is just throwing dirt at someone's work.
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    I will, I'm on a mobile right now, will references to proper sources.
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnesty-international-its-links-to-radical-islam-and-british-government/ https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnes... https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/india-has-31-lakh-ngos-twice-the-number-of-schools-almost-twice-number-of-policemen/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/india-h... https://swarajyamag.com/culture/how-northeast-india-was-christianised-in-the-last-100-years https://swarajyamag.com/culture/how-northeast-india-was-chri... https://tfipost.com/2016/09/christian-missionaries-conversion-india/ https://tfipost.com/2016/09/christian-missionaries-conversio...
    - srean 6y ago
      Opindia is a fake news channel that created to incite communal violence. https://thewire.in/communalism/bihar-opindia-khabartak-minor-murder-muslims https://thewire.in/communalism/bihar-opindia-khabartak-minor... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpIndia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpIndia That you get your news from there, or if not, choose to paste links to their reporting tells a lot about your agenda here. Swarajyamag is rightwing mouthpiece. Opinion of one person on the internet who happens to have a twitter account counts for very little. Indian Express is reliable and all that report says that there are a lot of shady NGO's in India. That has no relevance on whether AI is shady or not.
- henearkr 6y ago
  "most of the north-east is converted [to christianity]" is surprising, but actually that's true, for several Indian states that are in the enclave eastern of Bangladesh (Nagaland, Mizoram and Meghalaya). Not "most" eastern states, though, only these ones. I am certainly not in favor of acculturation, and I have no sympathy for religions such as christianity who advocate that nature exists just to be used by humans, however I am not sure that the current status is really evolving. These eastern states seem to have been converted long ago.
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    Nagaland, Mizoram and Meghalaya are christianized long back. But Many media doesn't cover it, but Evangelism very high, in north-eastern states, almost 70% of the population became Christians. I'm all in, if people with their knowledge want to take Christianity. But de-generation of native faiths, Money, ... and other facilities for conversion are being provided. https://swarajyamag.com/culture/how-northeast-india-was-christianised-in-the-last-100-years https://swarajyamag.com/culture/how-northeast-india-was-chri...
    - srean 6y ago
      Well I grew up in the Northeast ('80s). One thing I can assert that these missionaries treated the population a lot more respect than the (for the lack of a better word) folks from mainland India. The common attitude towards Northeast people by my fellow countrymen was that of utter contempt to the point of treating them as inferior beings. Sure the missionaries had an agenda. But given my options as an hypothetical person of northeastern ethnicity, given the education that I would get from the missionary organizations (they run many primary schools and high schools and vocational training schools) I would have made a wise choice and bettered my life.
      - nilsocket 6y ago
        I completely agree with you, no denial. But in-order to understand the nuances, one needs to see this in context of history. unfortunately, its too big to explain. Support for native traditions is very bad, no denial. Mainland Indians leave out north-east, no denial. But, this is same in case of every region, every community is on their own protecting themselves. And what do they get in return for protecting their culture, obviously nothing. Short video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmGQ_jFP6ao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmGQ_jFP6ao Please understand, morale of this country is being broken from nearly 1200 years. It's only now we got freedom, it will take time to settle things, maybe 40 to 50 years more. We are a democratic country, it takes time. Edit: grammatical mistakes
- quirmian 6y ago
  Re. conversion - nilsocket, do you believe that every individual has agency in choosing their religion? Or do you believe that these choices should be made for them by “those that know better”? An analogy, do you think that your occupation should be something you can choose? Or should that choice be made for you by “those that know better”? If the conversion is “forced” or “fake”, nothing changes on the ground anyway, and it doesn’t matter. If the conversion is genuine, why should society have a say on an individual’s belief?
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    I very much believe in self-belief. I don't have any problem, if people convert to Christianity with their self-will and knowledge. Look at this handle, https://twitter.com/noconversion https://twitter.com/noconversion How many kinds of deceptions are being used by Christians in order to convert native people: Money to Defend rioters and convertions: https://twitter.com/Satyanewshi/status/1310562881469952000?s=20 https://twitter.com/Satyanewshi/status/1310562881469952000?s... Backed by state government in Andhra Pradesh: https://twitter.com/Ashwinkiing/status/1310856515838865409 https://twitter.com/Ashwinkiing/status/1310856515838865409 Deception: So native people don't know, it is some other religion, act like Hindus but convert to Christianity: https://twitter.com/noconversion/status/1310376999148494848 https://twitter.com/noconversion/status/1310376999148494848 Fake promises of healing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyyQj1Z25eI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyyQj1Z25eI
    - quirmian 6y ago
      That twitter handle is far from an unbiased source. Again, my question here is - Who decides that the reason someone has chosen for their conversion is “wrong”, for what is essentially an individual’s choice. I for one trust nobody but myself to make those judgements, within the framework of the law. I do not want the state to infringe on my personal freedom. Anti-conversion laws are a dangerous step in the direction of the state telling people what to believe and what not to.
    - srean 6y ago
      Yeah all very bad. Dunking in cow urine and bullshit for protection from Covid that's golden and kosher though.
roenxi 6y ago
Interesting. Does the Indian government have a legitimate complaint? There is a very wide spectrum of possibilities here. They range from the Indian government being horrible, through localised corruption, through the government having very legitimate concerns about foreign interference, through to AI India being corrupt and/or in league with western intelligence agencies.
- sshlocalhost 6y ago
  Nah, you should have a complete understanding from all sides. India is heavily anti majority and hates Hinduism than any other country. All these NGOs and so called feminist organisations try to show hinduism in bad light. I don't really need to show references and links. A quick Google search will show it all. :)
  - praveen9920 6y ago
    This highly unsubstantiated claim raised by right wing of India.
    - sshlocalhost 6y ago
      I disagree. I am a South East Asian aka Malaysian. Most of the news articles related to India always show negative light about Hinduism and defame Hindu practices.
    - sshlocalhost 6y ago
      A quick look on the official India's sub reddit should be a good guage. r/india.
- sssk 6y ago
  The government's perspective. Apparently, the bank account that was frozen violated money laundering laws and was upheld by a court. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/linked-private-company-under-ed-probe-not-amnesty-ngo-government-sources/articleshow/78383354.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/...
ahiknsr 6y ago
some useful links for more context: https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/21/indias-ngo-backlash/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/21/indias-ngo-backlash/ https://www.firstpost.com/india/kudankulam-protests-3-ngos-lose-licence-for-diverting-funds-224821.html https://www.firstpost.com/india/kudankulam-protests-3-ngos-l...
Karupan 6y ago
I saved this in my bookmarks a while back when reading up on this topic - the alleged Indian Intelligence Bureau (IB) report published in 2014 [0] [0] https://www.scribd.com/document/229493571/IB-Report-NGO https://www.scribd.com/document/229493571/IB-Report-NGO
- djsumdog 6y ago
  Ohio State is mentioned in this. Are there any other sources on their involvement?
- intended 6y ago
  Hey! someone else has that document saved. It is absolutely hilarious and tragic. When it came out, I read the report and realized that it was a hack job, and sure enough - not one person knew its contents, despite the news channels and whatsapp declaring NGOs as enemy number 1. I've commented elsewhere in this thread how that report says that writing hand written notes is an attempt to evade scanners, and that using google maps and adding pins to it is evidence of near super villain levels of plotting to end India's coal power dreams - by Greenpeace.
quirmian 6y ago
The slow judicial system is the biggest weapon that the government and other large entities with money have. Not everyone can afford to put their lives on hold for 3 years while a court case slowly winds its way up to a judge.
- johnnydoe9 6y ago
  Toyota recently pulled out of the country due to ineffective bureaucracy and that's when they're pushing for more manufacturing. In cases like these there's no way for them to fight if they're against you.
  - krtkush 6y ago
    > Toyota recently pulled out of the country That is incorrect. Toyota is halting expansion in India not pulling out.
    - johnnydoe9 6y ago
      Yeah my bad, halting expansion. Kia encountered major issues as well but continued in a different state IIRC
      - kumarharsh 6y ago
        https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/auto/cars-uvs/toyota-kirloskar-motor-reiterates-its-commitment-to-indian-market/articleshow/78163191.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/auto/cars-uvs/...
  - kumarharsh 6y ago
    Toyota is NOT pulling out of India, and neither is it not expanding/investing more money. It was a newsbyte spread by some papers w/o citing named sources. The news was refuted by Government officials as well as Toyota India's Vice Chairman, who said Toyota would be investing about 20 Billion INR over the next 12 months. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/auto/cars-uvs/toyota-kirloskar-motor-reiterates-its-commitment-to-indian-market/articleshow/78163191.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/auto/cars-uvs/...
nabla9 6y ago
Hindu nationalism is just like any nationalism. It harms liberties. India: Arrests of Activists Politically Motivated https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/16/india-arrests-activists-politically-motivated https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/16/india-arrests-activists-... Under Modi, India's Press Not Free Anymore https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/world/asia/modi-india-press-media.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/world/asia/modi-india-pre... Critics of India’s Modi Government Face Sedition Charges https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/critics-of-indias-modi-government-face-sedition-charges/ https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/critics-of-indias-modi-gover... Is free speech under threat in Modi’s India? Activists, journalists, lawyers and academics are concerned that free speech in India is deteriorating (2017) https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/08/03/is-free-speech-under-threat-in-modis-india/ https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/08/03/is-free-speech...
- apexkid 6y ago
  This is all motivated reporting. India has such a strong and independent judicial system which does its job. If any charges are put incorrectly then courts will grant relief. India is democratic country.
  - deskamess 6y ago
    >India has such a strong and independent judicial system which does its job. Eh... no it does not. The Supreme Court has capitulated; it rubber stamps anything coming out of Modi Inc. Do you not follow whats going on? Why don't you address all of the issues that the parent poster bought up?
    - nilsocket 6y ago
      An iota of evidence?
      - harichinnan 6y ago
        https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/former-cji-ranjan-gogoi-nominated-to-rajya-sabha/article31085274.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/former-cji-ranjan-gog...
apexkid 6y ago
Indians are very pleased at this decision. Amnesty has been a major organization to hold biased views of human rights of terrorist in Kashmir without accounting for the loss of citizens life that are damaged due to terrorism. Their agenda has always been motivated while operating in India. A diverse and large country like India doesn't need such an organization preaching whats right. India is largest democracy on face of earth.
- apexkid 6y ago
  Amnesty's resources are better spent in operating in those countries where there is no democracy such as middle east, africa, china, etc. Good they got an exit from India where they are useless :)
  - yxhuvud 6y ago
    They could also chose to operate in regions where there is no democracy. Like in the Kashmir region.
    - ranjitcool1 6y ago
      It’s not your fault that you lack knowledge, should have taught you well at the right age. Sorry too late for you
    - malware7 6y ago
      Kashmir is in India which is definitely a democracy. In fact it was democratic governments who gave and took away kashmir's autonomy.
    - sbmthakur 6y ago
      It's been several decades that Kashmir has a crippled democracy, no thanks to the insurgency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_Jammu_and_Kashmir#1987%E2%80%932004 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_Jammu_and_Kashmi...
      - 6y ago
ssrs 6y ago
Good riddance. They should go to the US, Pakistan and Sweden and crib and cry about the state of minorities there. All the best to them!
- caf 6y ago
  https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/united-states-of-america/report-united-states-of-america/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/united-states-... https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/pakistan/report-pakistan/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/pa... https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/europe-and-central-asia/sweden/report-sweden/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/europe-and-central-asia...
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azifali 6y ago
BJP the ruling party is sliding India into totalitarianism.
- swarnie_ 6y ago
  A good chunk of the world has shifted that way since 2000, its actually baffling.
  - sumedh 6y ago
    Maybe because social media helps demagogues spread their message?
    - malware7 6y ago
      Or is it that the monopoly of leftists over "the truth" is falling apart.
      - sumedh 6y ago
        What is the "the truth"
        malware7 6y ago
        Leftists lost their control over the global (and local) narrative with the rise of social media. So, now they have to hide behind the disguise of NGO's to push their narrative because nobody trusts their news.
    - baud147258 6y ago
      I don't think demagogues ever needed social media to spread their messages
  - rmrfrmrf 6y ago
    It turns out that not everyone appreciates being turned into an economic client state of the US. Nationalism is a direct reaction meant to (whether effective or not) reaffirm sovreignty.
naruvimama 6y ago
World's largest democracy vs NGO with shady foreign funding, forced to shutdown because they are asked to make their operations transparent. Enough said, India is the only major functional democracy in region filed with autocratic communist and theocratic states, where stoning people for blasphemy and organ harvesting is the norm. At the end of the day that is how democracies need to work and those of you spewing rhetoric against the current disposition have revealed the wolf within your sheep clothing.
- ashleshbiradar 6y ago
  shady foreign funding, please share some sources to back up your claim, or it is not a productive comment.
  - malware7 6y ago
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/cbi-raids-amnesty-india-offices-in-bengaluru-and-new-delhi/articleshow/72074572.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-natio...
    - ashleshbiradar 6y ago
      that just says the government agencies raided the offices of AII, it doesn't prove any wrongdoing. Exactly the kind of harassment AII is talking about in the article linked above, only if you had read it in the first place before making his comment.
      - malware7 6y ago
        A goverment doing what it can in the limits of law is harassment now. Wow!
sidmkp96 6y ago
HN should take down this post. The country has been heavily polarized into two sections (pro-bjp and against-bjp) with both the sections heavily incentivised by the "IT" deptt of respective political parties. Very few will talk about the actual issue and most of the comments will be rhetorical, only focusing on what they believe is right.
- sumedh 6y ago
  > only focusing on what they believe is right. So what is "right" as per your belief?
- ashleshbiradar 6y ago
  this post is from a reputed source, I see no reason why it should be taken down. As far as I am concerned, this is not a subjective thing, the crack down on Amnesty International in the country is not subject to individual opinions.
  - malware7 6y ago
    It just happens that the "reputed source" itself is under question for source of their funding. What you consider reputed is your opinion, not a fact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_Internati...
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      Wikipedia is not a good source for anything remotely controversial at this time. One of the founders did a great post on it: https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikipedia-is-badly-biased/ https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikipedia-is-badly-biased/ If you do read Wikipedia, always do two things: 1) Read the Talk page 2) Go to the history and read the same article from 2005 ~ 2010
    - ashleshbiradar 6y ago
      lol, dude, the criticism is mostly from authoritarian countries, China, Iran, Russia, or countries that violate human rights, Sri Lanka(the entire issue with tamils), or US(Guantánamo Bay).
ashleshbiradar 6y ago
this needs to be looked with the recent updates to FCRA rules, which completely cripple civil societies. https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/icj-says-fcra-bill-incompatible-with-international-law/article32685688.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/icj-says-fcra-bill-in... https://scroll.in/article/973909/behind-the-new-rules-for-ngos-to-get-foreign-funds-a-clear-political-message-fall-in-line https://scroll.in/article/973909/behind-the-new-rules-for-ng...
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iKevinShah 6y ago
One thing that comments so far down here do not highlight is that there was a recent change in the Foreign Contribution (Regulation) Act where there were changes in the amount of money / limit of administrative expenditure that can be allocated to foreign contributions to 20 percent from the previous 50 percent and, Enforcement Directorate had issued a show-cause notice to Amnesty International India recently (I think in 2019). So while yeah, online discussions mostly conclude to simplest possible explanation i.e. authoritarian / totalitarian / nationalism / and what not - This notice comes just days after FCRA was changed in India, that might be the pushing point / breakpoint towards closure rather than "Government Witchhunt", because Amnesty has been getting the show-causes notices for some time now.
- john_max_1 6y ago
  Thanks for saying this. I don't know why everything has to be reduced to "Nazis".
- iamshs 6y ago
  Rose by any other name... Amnesty India has not been convicted of any FCRA violation. India has frozen Amnesty's bank accounts without any judicial oversight making sure Amnesty India cannot function normally. FCRA was amended with a specific aim in mind. Hindu Nationalist groups have been vocal about religious conversions. FCRA was recently used to target 4 Christian organizations and choke their foreign funding [1]. It is a witch-hunt specifically because Amnesty was harassed by Delhi Police about why they were probing Delhi Religious Riots 2020 and had released the report about the Police excesses in the same? It was after this that Delhi Police targeted Amnesty using FCRA law. [2] Amnesty India's former head put it succintly: "It has become a crime to work on human rights in India." "Amnesty has not been convicted. It has not even been put on trial in court. Shutdown refers to inability to pay salaries because accounts frozen for second time without any determination of guilt." [3] FCRA is just bureaucratic powerslam without going through courts to target organization that asks for transparency. India joins highly regarding company of Russia in pushing Amnesty from their country. [1] - https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/government-suspends-fcra-clearance-of-4-christian-groups/article32535766.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/government-suspends-f... [2] - https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/amnesty-report-on-delhi-riots-lopsided-biased-police/article32500328.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/amnesty-report-on... [3] - https://twitter.com/Aakar__Patel/status/1310844601767309312 https://twitter.com/Aakar__Patel/status/1310844601767309312
0xmohit 6y ago
Worth noting is the fact that the government is charging protestors and dissenters under sedition and UAPA [0]. > In July 2019,the ambit of UAPA was expanded. It was amended allowing the government to designate an individual as a terrorist without trial. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Activities_(Prevention)_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Activities_(Preventio...
- djsumdog 6y ago
  > protestors and dissenters There are massacres going on it seems. In America we are seeing rioters constantly classified by the media as protestors. If a group is literally slaughtering the other group, protestor seems like the wrong word.
  - doomslice 6y ago
    > In America we are seeing rioters constantly classified by the media as protestors. Could you show me some instances of this? I've heard this repeated but I haven't actually seen it myself.
    - djsumdog 6y ago
      I made this video on CHAZ: https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-bd19-44fea7966c27 https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-... Here are some of the rioters in Portland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zthJUf31MA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zthJUf31MA Here are some peaceful protestors trying to break into a Federal Courthouse in Portland using a circular saw: https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1286915433828724736 https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1286915433828724736 Portland rioters were also disguising themselves as press: https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1286944321107763200 https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1286944321107763200 Donut does a good job of documenting the riots in Portland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHb3xVqxcp8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHb3xVqxcp8 The fact that you've heard this and haven't seen it, shows just how terrible, corrupt and useless the American media is. Our media is only pushing hate: https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1300290897922453504 https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/130029089792245350...
liar_brigade 6y ago
I see this thread is being brigaded by the usual right-wing Indian nationalists who think Modi can do no wrong and the Hindu majority is somehow, inexplicably, under threat.
- malware7 6y ago
  Modi can't be always right just like Amnesty India. If they are so sure about honesty of their work, they should fight the court case instead of running away. Did you create an account just to bait here?
  - liar_brigade 6y ago
    And your comments all over this thread are good examples of this. So, thanks for proving my point.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
ranjitcool1 6y ago
It’s easy to diss India without knowing the ground facts. There has been major bias by these organizations where they show mercy and protests for terrorits but none for the people killed by them. Being anti govt by calling right wing Hindu nationalist is BS. India has seen years of corruption and I can attest that things have never been better and improving Commenting on the recent CAA legislation without reading it fully tells me that you failed your schooling. While you scream BJP as Hindu nationalist party, it has many Muslim members and a majority of Muslims voted for BJP because of its strong leadership. Why don’t you and Amnesty take time to address the Uighurs Muslims who are in a Chinese camp being brain washed, all 10 million of them while their mosques are being destroyed? Oh wait i forgot, a lot of hypocrites linger here.
SimplyUseless 6y ago
What has this post got anything to do with Startups? HN has become irrelevant when the reason is to make impacts in the startup world and less on how the political landscape works. The only reason this post is important is because a lot of the techies are Indians and you can see from the comments on why these discussions are so important for them. We could go on and bring up political unrests in China, Afghanistan, ISIS, Russia, Palestine/Israel, America and so on however the fact is that HN policies should down vote such posts.
- deskamess 6y ago
  You have never seen a non-startup post here? Nothing about racism or job or caste discrimination? You can completely avoid participating in this discussion. Worst case, the article takes up two lines on the main story page. Two lines that your eyes can scroll by. You do not have to click. I see a lot of users are triggered by the reality of whats happening in India. In general, we see a lot of that when any anti-caste or stories not favorable to the current govt are posted.
  - sshlocalhost 6y ago
    This is very ignorant of Hinduism. Hinduism does NOT validate caste discrimination. Read more https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/157/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-caste-system-how-has-it-changed https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/157/what-is-the...
- djsumdog 6y ago
  This post will pretty quickly fall off the front page. Political and controversial posts often do. If you find one, be glad. Look at it closely. Look how many comments are in the grey. There is a lot of controversy. Always scroll to the bottom too and look at the heated debate. I've had friends in Australia who would always criticize Amnesty International and talked about the harm the organization harmed. I liked a lot of the videos they produced in the 2000s, including their video against US torture by the CIA and the documentary The Anatomy of Hate. But it's important to see all sides of and organization, and reading these comments and looking at all of the sources on all sides, I can see why a lot of people oppose them and how they can also do a lot of harm. These posts don't stay on the front page for long. Learn from them. This is the information the main stream media keeps from you.
shadowprofile77 6y ago
Is it just my skewed perception of more or less recent reporting about India's politics or is the supposed largest democracy on Earth slowly turning into an authoritarian nationalist state to a degree it hasn't seen in many years. Honestly curious, not a rhetorical question, in case anyone can clarify this with better information or first-hand understanding.
- SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
  I think it's less recent reporting. I don't know a ton about the country's recent history, but India was very much founded as a nationalist state, and the PM position was held by the same family for about 50 years after independence.
- srean 6y ago
  As an Indian residing in India this certainly feels so. Things have become bad enough that people self-censor. People have been arrested for sharing jokes about politicians to their personal friends over email or social media. Some have been heckled and beaten up. Such people have no recourse. Even if the local govt pretends to act, the perpetrators immediately gets a bail, because the courts are very much in bed with the politics, more so at the lower courts. Made up and nonbailable charges have been slapped on university professors who have criticized the government. They are not tried on the usual court but handled by a special anti-terrorism body called the NIA that has special powers and provisions to secrecy that ordinary courts do not have. https://scroll.in/article/959082/i-cant-counter-state-propaganda-anand-teltumbes-open-letter-a-day-before-he-is-to-be-arrested https://scroll.in/article/959082/i-cant-counter-state-propag... Political opponents are harassed by income tax raids even when nothing much come put of the raids. Its just an intimidation tactic where people with government authorization tear your apartment apart and grab documents that they can hold on to as long as they want for the harassments value.
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    Okay you follow fake news scroll. Real story about Bhima Koregaon, https://www.opindia.com/2018/01/battle-of-koregaon-lessons-in-unity/ https://www.opindia.com/2018/01/battle-of-koregaon-lessons-i... Don't say OpIndia is right-wing citing Wikipedia and non-sense. How about you counter this with proper sources, like it is done in the above article with primary sources. Or else, you will be spreading fake news.
kcsomisetty 6y ago
I read in another thread. reproducing the comments here for balanced point of view. "If more than 20% of your funds goes to administrative expenses (office supplies, stationary, tea/coffee, misc), you know there is something shady. Satyam computers, did the same thing, created fake employees, posted huge expenses under admin category for almost 5 years. Later it was found that they were laundering money for YSR from overseas, and went bust and was later acquired by TechMahindra for paisa on the rupee. Amnesty india is probably in knee deep shit and exiting before anything comes to light."
- sct202 6y ago
  In the US, <15% admin expense is considered good for a charity, and in the US admin expense also include rent, business services (accounting, legal, IT), and leadership costs (for a small org, the leader might be categorized as management but actually be providing services).
arjun1296 6y ago
I am very glad foreign funded vested interest groups working as NGOs like Amnesty International is leaving India for good. NGOs like Amnesty and Greenpeace has been involved in shady work in many places in India, including religious conversion and paid protests in remote villages. Hindus being a global minority need to be cautious and are worried about such conversion activities. Indian govt has been asking NGOs to comply with FCRA Norms and many including Amnesty Internation has failed to file annual returns despite mandatory legal(pre-2014 norms) requirements. India has millions of people living under poverty. To lift them out of poverty they need JOBS. Being an trade partner of US and UK, India has let functioning of shady NGOs like these work wrecklessly. Whether it is Nuclear power plant or Copper plant, NGOs have been involved in mass mobilisation of people by using foreign funds to stall projects so that donor companies benefit. If NGOs are so committed to their objective, they can raise funds from India itself to work for it. They don't need large donations from Multinational Corporation from abroad to raise objections in a democratic manner. By using foreign funds these NGOs have been successful in sabotaging Govt and Public-Private projects. So that donor Corporations can get benefitted. Similar mobilisation was also observed in Australia when Adani has been bidding for Coal mines. NGOs were not working for their objective, but also were transferring money from their account to other NGOs without proper clearance. Shady foreign money transfers from NGOs also prompted authorities to investigate these firms on FEMA Act. If NGOs were so clean, they can fight the battle with local money than CRYING. Foreign fund is NOT needed to fight so-called Hindu nationalism. Foreign fund is NOT needed to raise political objections in a democratic system. One cannot even read a recipe of a proper Gujrati Dhokla nowadays without constant screaming of "rising Hindu nationalism". XD https://www.firstpost.com/india/enforcement-directorate-raids-amnesty-internationals-india-office-in-bengaluru-over-alleged-fema-violations-5448021.html https://www.firstpost.com/india/enforcement-directorate-raid... https://www.bloombergquint.com/law-and-policy/2019/09/05/ed-issues-show-cause-notice-to-amnesty-international-for-violating-foreign-exchange-law https://www.bloombergquint.com/law-and-policy/2019/09/05/ed-... https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/mha-cancels-fcra-licences-of-1300-ngos/articleshow/71964523.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-natio... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/dining/indian-recipes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/dining/indian-recipes.htm...
- 6y ago
nl 6y ago
I'm not sure people are aware, but most countries find Amnesty International annoying. My own country - Australia - has been frequently criticised by Amnesty (eg [1]). Amnesty's job is to call out human right violations. Citizens of a country may very well say "oh, we don't like these asylum seekers, so we will keep voting for the government that put these laws in place" (in Australia's case). But it isn't Amnesty's job to look at justifications, only violations. A robust, functional democracy should have space to allow critics, and while it might be unrealistic to expect the government to welcome that criticism, a government shouldn't use its power to act in reprisal against critics. Some people in this discussion should consider this carefully. It's one thing to disagree with critics, but quite another to approve of reprisals against those critics. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/australia-pm-rejects-amnesty-internationals-asylum-seeker-torture-claims/a-36072994 https://www.dw.com/en/australia-pm-rejects-amnesty-internati...
- liar_brigade 6y ago
  This is true, but sadly, organizations that value and promote human rights are always going to be targeted right-wing extremists, as they are fundamentally opposed to this ideal. Especially true in India now that they have their own Hindu Hitler.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
screye 6y ago
I mostly agree with them, but > transparency in the government, more recently for accountability of the Delhi police and the Government of India regarding the grave human rights violations in Delhi riots and Jammu & Kashmir all of these have been issues with every Indian Govt. for decades. I don't see anything about 2021 that would be a straw that'd break a camel's back. The FRCA too has been the favorite tool for every govt. from 1976, for harassing NGOs. The changes to the law itself aren't as terrible. > The NGO/FRCA license now expires in 5 years instead of being permanent Not a terrible idea in a functioning society. In India, it becomes a tool getting fresh bribes out of groups and trapping them in bureaucracy. > Less than 50% of foreign funds can be used for administrative expenses IMO, really smart change. I personally know of Indian NGOs that primarily serve as money laundering mechanisms. On paper, doesn't seem like a bad change at all. > The law now extends to trade/student/workers' unions, women’s wing of a political party, farmers’ organisations, youth organisations based on caste, community, religion, language and organizations that engage in strikes/ blockages/ protests / political action. Some of these changes are sensible. unions and youth organizations in India are well known to be tools of political parties. If a law had to be applied, it has to at least be consistent. The part of orgs. that engage in protest is more divisive, especially with the discussion around foreign funding to control opinion becoming a huge thing in the US. Should outside funding be allowed to facilitate political opinion in a nation? To me, the answer isn't that clear. Both sides of the argument have strong points in favor. ______________ I am generally averse to expanding Govt. power, especially given how corrupt every Indian one has been. The FRCA was terrible, and like the patriot act is something that only serves to expand state power. That being said, to spin it as a "hindu nationalist" initiative is political posturing. Anyone who believes that Indian Media's pro-ruling party agenda, religious riots, sedition charges or harassment of activists started or even peaked in the Modi Govt., has been willfully ignorant about the continuing violation of freedoms that Indian Govts. have been part of since Indira Gandhi in the 70s. ______________ In the spirit of transparency, I have an incredibly low opinion of both journalists and activists in India. The complete lack of nuance in how they approach the issues they champion is a glaring example of it. The worst aspect, is that the most egregious ones get widespread coverage in respected western outlets. Western thought leaders have time and again demonstrated an incredibly limited understanding on complex non-western societies. Whether that be in Africa, China, SEA or India. However, english, open-ness of Indian society, post colonial guilt and its size lead to the most egregious cases being in India. Lastly, can't be pointing out problems without suggesting solutions. Recently, one of the few journalists I respect immensely (Shekhar Gupta) has started an online-only subscription based media house called the Print. I have found them to be the closest thing to fair journalism in India. The Caravan is another subscription based media outlet that is well respected among my peers (whom I respect) although I personally I am less impressed by it.
anuraj 6y ago
Indian Hindu Nationalist government has now removed all garbs and is a full on fascism. They have scant regard for law or constitution. They have absolute control over all the 4 pillars of democracy and is effectively controlling popular opinion.
throwaway4good 6y ago
Also surpression in Kashmir seems to have escalated over the past year with removal of local governance and blockade of internet access. It is not a good combination: Escalating human rights abuses, an economy in freefall, pandemic, border skirmishes with China, nationalism, crackdown on ethnic minorities ...
- malware7 6y ago
  >> crackdown on ethnic minorities Which minorities?
  - throwaway4good 6y ago
    About 10% of India's population is muslim however in Kashmir they are a majority which I think is more or less the root cause of the Kashmir conflict.
    - malware7 6y ago
      I wonder how did muslims became majority in kashmir? Do you know? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus Now that the these refugees are coming back o their motherland, propagandists are busy labelling it as hindu occupation and minority oppression.
      - arjun1296 6y ago
        Globally, Hindus are a minority. So whether its a liberal or conservative foreigner(Christian or Muslim), to them Muslims are usually a minority. And foreigners are easily susceptible to believe the claims of Muslims being a minority without even checking the realities. Tthey almost always fail to understand that it is Hindus who is the real minority in Jammu and Kashmir. Morevoer, Christians and Muslims are of Abhrahamic origins and their morality is skewed in favor of their version of worship and social norms. Idol-worshippers like Hindus are considered beastly and low-life. So don't expect foreigners to accept what Hindus says as our moralities are going to cut through their doctrinal abhrahamic morality though they are separate religions.
nilsocket 6y ago
How about people educate themselves regarding Amnesty. https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnesty-international-its-links-to-radical-islam-and-british-government/ https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnes...
- commoner 6y ago
  > OpIndia is an Indian right-wing news portal founded in 2014 by Rahul Raj and Kumar Kamal. The website has published fake news and anti-Muslim commentary on multiple occasions, including a 2020 incident in which it falsely claimed that a Hindu boy was sacrificed in a Bihar mosque. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpIndia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpIndia
  - apexkid 6y ago
    You must be an NDTV viewer so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDTV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDTV
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    Can you show, some evidence that they share fake news like quint, wire, NDTV, and other left media, ...
- nilsocket 6y ago
  https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnesty-international-its-links-to-radical-islam-and-british-government/ https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnes... https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/india-has-31-lakh-ngos-twice-the-number-of-schools-almost-twice-number-of-policemen/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/india-h...
dharmach 6y ago
Amnesty international and other Western NGOs are moral sticks of rich countries to browbeat erstwhile colonies for not maintaining high living standards post exploitation.
- djsumdog 6y ago
  NGOs typically do a lot of harm. They're the means by which high income countries enforce policies that keep developing countries in debt to them, in order to extract resources. The 2011 book "The Dictator's Handbook" does a good job of detailing how this works.
known 6y ago
Since whistle blower protection in India is inadequate/inefficient proliferation of TRUTH is stopped in the name of loyalty, discipline, patriotism, job security, national security, intellectual property etc https://archive.is/VWFSC https://archive.is/VWFSC
lambainsaan 6y ago
This is a big big news. Very sad that Amenesty is halting its work. It could be the case that Amenesty really had some problems in its Indian org, I am not a judge, not going to jump to any conclusions, but if the BJP led government is really trying to curb the work that Amenesty is doing by using central agencies that's very very scary. I feel India is going on a wrong track, it was doing okay in regards to Democratic values until Modi came to power, and since then it is on a downwards trajectory in that department. I have not seen any media house putting out any news which condemn decision that Modi makes, all are just praising Modi for god knows what reason. This ain't even a news in India, they are all running behind Bollywood celebs. I feel Indian people are one-two generation(s) away, most of the Indian people can't really digest democracy at the moment.
nilsocket 6y ago
https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=09 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875...
LordAtlas 6y ago
Unfortunately, the BJP's notorious troll army (also known as the "IT cell") has invaded HN also, and pop up whenever our government's misdeeds are discussed. Remember that this is the same govt that has restricted the speech of the state of Jammu and Kashmir by cutting off their Internet access completely and later, restricting them to a mere 2G connection and to "approved" websites. [1] It modified the UAPA law to basically designate any Indian citizen a "terrorist" and hold them indefinitely without bail. And used the law to arrest and detain people protesting against a controversial law. [2] The same government that set up a "donation fund" called "PM Cares", ostensibly to help people affected by Covid-19 and lockdown, but then refused to divulge details under our RTI - Right to Information Act - claiming it was not a public authority. [3] But then exempted this fund from the same draconian FCRA rules [4] Oh, if that's not enough, this government also passed a law exempting political parties from scrutiny in foreign funding under the FCRA. Want to guess which is the richest political party in India now? Google it. [5] Did I mention they also introduced "electoral bonds" to allow anonymous corporate funding for political parties? [6] Amnesty International was drawing too much attention to the human rights abuses of the government, so the state has come down with all its might on it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Kashmir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Kashmir [2] https://www.thequint.com/news/law/no-bail-in-uapa-cases-regardless-of-evidence-watali-judgment-supreme-court https://www.thequint.com/news/law/no-bail-in-uapa-cases-rega... [3] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/coronavirus-pm-cares-is-not-a-public-authority-under-rti-act-pmo/article31712146.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/coronavirus-pm-cares-... [4] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/pm-cares-fund-gets-fcra-exemption-without-meeting-pre-condition-of-cag-audit/article32584371.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/pm-cares-fund-gets-fc... [5] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/lok-sabha-passes-bill-to-exempt-political-parties-from-scrutiny-on-foreign-funds-without-debate/article23285764.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/lok-sabha-passes-bill... [6] https://www.newindianexpress.com/opinions/2019/dec/01/time-to-end-the-legal-corruption-of-electoral-bonds-2069540.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/opinions/2019/dec/01/time-t...
david4532452 6y ago
This discussion like most HN discussions are hijacked by extremist agenda pushers who keep throwing in out-of-context words like nationalism, caste, religion, etc irrelevantly. A simple search shows why Indian govt froze the bank accounts. Amnesty International continues to violate Indian laws (FCRA) time and again by not disclosing their source of funds. They were investigated a decade ago by the previous government too for money laundering (for people crying hoarse on current government), and Amnesty International halted all it's work then too. All foreign funding/donations needs to be approved based on FCRA act. Instead of obeying the laws, Amnesty channeled money through various private or other sister orgs, claiming it is remittances for services exported. They lost the case in the State courts couple of times and my guess is they didn't want to risk going to the Supreme court and lose again. So instead of complying with the law, it's time to spin the story against the Indian government. https://www.deccanherald.com/national/linked-private-company-under-ed-probe-not-amnesty-govt-sources-894798.html https://www.deccanherald.com/national/linked-private-company... https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/current-affairs-trends/mha-says-amnesty-did-not-have-fcra-approval-illegally-rerouted-money-to-circumvent-domestic-laws-5900951.html https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/current-affairs-tre...

254 points by johnnydoe9 6y ago

As per my knowledge goes, All foreign funded organisations, under so called NGO's name should be completely under scan. These NGO's are not helping people, what they are doing is propaganda, support terrosits, conversions. Christian missionaries conversions are so rampant in India, Most of north-east is converted, punjab, tamil-nadu, andhra Pradesh, Kerala, are in-line for huge demographics change. If this is not enough, these organisations which are belong to far-left even create riots, trying to white-wash historical atrocities, shame majority population, support terrosits, anti-government. We are unable to bear the wrath which is being unleashed by foreign agencies on our country. We just want to live, leave us alone.

singemonkey 6y ago
Oh dear. The mindset behind comments like this is not helpful at all. Please stop perpetuating such arrant nonsense.
atfzl 6y ago
And where are you getting all this knowledge from?
- nilsocket 6y ago
  I follow news daily from various sources.
postingawayonhn 6y ago
Their operations in India are financed by donations form Indians. From the linked update: > For human rights work in India, it operates through a distinct model of raising funds domestically. More than four million Indians have supported Amnesty International India’s work in the last eight years and around 100,000 Indians have made financial contributions.
- nilsocket 6y ago
  That's what happens, when you believe in propaganda. What do you say about this, https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875...
  - srean 6y ago
    … I believe your view is that ARanganathan72 is not a well known rightwing propaganda handle. OK, if you say so.
harshitaneja 6y ago
It would be more helpful if you could substantiate your claims with some reliable references. Otherwise it is just throwing dirt at someone's work.
- nilsocket 6y ago
  I will, I'm on a mobile right now, will references to proper sources.
- nilsocket 6y ago
  https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnesty-international-its-links-to-radical-islam-and-british-government/ https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnes... https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/india-has-31-lakh-ngos-twice-the-number-of-schools-almost-twice-number-of-policemen/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/india-h... https://swarajyamag.com/culture/how-northeast-india-was-christianised-in-the-last-100-years https://swarajyamag.com/culture/how-northeast-india-was-chri... https://tfipost.com/2016/09/christian-missionaries-conversion-india/ https://tfipost.com/2016/09/christian-missionaries-conversio...
  - srean 6y ago
    Opindia is a fake news channel that created to incite communal violence. https://thewire.in/communalism/bihar-opindia-khabartak-minor-murder-muslims https://thewire.in/communalism/bihar-opindia-khabartak-minor... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpIndia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpIndia That you get your news from there, or if not, choose to paste links to their reporting tells a lot about your agenda here. Swarajyamag is rightwing mouthpiece. Opinion of one person on the internet who happens to have a twitter account counts for very little. Indian Express is reliable and all that report says that there are a lot of shady NGO's in India. That has no relevance on whether AI is shady or not.
henearkr 6y ago
"most of the north-east is converted [to christianity]" is surprising, but actually that's true, for several Indian states that are in the enclave eastern of Bangladesh (Nagaland, Mizoram and Meghalaya). Not "most" eastern states, though, only these ones. I am certainly not in favor of acculturation, and I have no sympathy for religions such as christianity who advocate that nature exists just to be used by humans, however I am not sure that the current status is really evolving. These eastern states seem to have been converted long ago.
- nilsocket 6y ago
  Nagaland, Mizoram and Meghalaya are christianized long back. But Many media doesn't cover it, but Evangelism very high, in north-eastern states, almost 70% of the population became Christians. I'm all in, if people with their knowledge want to take Christianity. But de-generation of native faiths, Money, ... and other facilities for conversion are being provided. https://swarajyamag.com/culture/how-northeast-india-was-christianised-in-the-last-100-years https://swarajyamag.com/culture/how-northeast-india-was-chri...
  - srean 6y ago
    Well I grew up in the Northeast ('80s). One thing I can assert that these missionaries treated the population a lot more respect than the (for the lack of a better word) folks from mainland India. The common attitude towards Northeast people by my fellow countrymen was that of utter contempt to the point of treating them as inferior beings. Sure the missionaries had an agenda. But given my options as an hypothetical person of northeastern ethnicity, given the education that I would get from the missionary organizations (they run many primary schools and high schools and vocational training schools) I would have made a wise choice and bettered my life.
    - nilsocket 6y ago
      I completely agree with you, no denial. But in-order to understand the nuances, one needs to see this in context of history. unfortunately, its too big to explain. Support for native traditions is very bad, no denial. Mainland Indians leave out north-east, no denial. But, this is same in case of every region, every community is on their own protecting themselves. And what do they get in return for protecting their culture, obviously nothing. Short video for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmGQ_jFP6ao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmGQ_jFP6ao Please understand, morale of this country is being broken from nearly 1200 years. It's only now we got freedom, it will take time to settle things, maybe 40 to 50 years more. We are a democratic country, it takes time. Edit: grammatical mistakes
quirmian 6y ago
Re. conversion - nilsocket, do you believe that every individual has agency in choosing their religion? Or do you believe that these choices should be made for them by “those that know better”? An analogy, do you think that your occupation should be something you can choose? Or should that choice be made for you by “those that know better”? If the conversion is “forced” or “fake”, nothing changes on the ground anyway, and it doesn’t matter. If the conversion is genuine, why should society have a say on an individual’s belief?
- nilsocket 6y ago
  I very much believe in self-belief. I don't have any problem, if people convert to Christianity with their self-will and knowledge. Look at this handle, https://twitter.com/noconversion https://twitter.com/noconversion How many kinds of deceptions are being used by Christians in order to convert native people: Money to Defend rioters and convertions: https://twitter.com/Satyanewshi/status/1310562881469952000?s=20 https://twitter.com/Satyanewshi/status/1310562881469952000?s... Backed by state government in Andhra Pradesh: https://twitter.com/Ashwinkiing/status/1310856515838865409 https://twitter.com/Ashwinkiing/status/1310856515838865409 Deception: So native people don't know, it is some other religion, act like Hindus but convert to Christianity: https://twitter.com/noconversion/status/1310376999148494848 https://twitter.com/noconversion/status/1310376999148494848 Fake promises of healing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyyQj1Z25eI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyyQj1Z25eI
  - quirmian 6y ago
    That twitter handle is far from an unbiased source. Again, my question here is - Who decides that the reason someone has chosen for their conversion is “wrong”, for what is essentially an individual’s choice. I for one trust nobody but myself to make those judgements, within the framework of the law. I do not want the state to infringe on my personal freedom. Anti-conversion laws are a dangerous step in the direction of the state telling people what to believe and what not to.
  - srean 6y ago
    Yeah all very bad. Dunking in cow urine and bullshit for protection from Covid that's golden and kosher though.

roenxi 6y ago

Interesting. Does the Indian government have a legitimate complaint? There is a very wide spectrum of possibilities here. They range from the Indian government being horrible, through localised corruption, through the government having very legitimate concerns about foreign interference, through to AI India being corrupt and/or in league with western intelligence agencies.

sshlocalhost 6y ago
Nah, you should have a complete understanding from all sides. India is heavily anti majority and hates Hinduism than any other country. All these NGOs and so called feminist organisations try to show hinduism in bad light. I don't really need to show references and links. A quick Google search will show it all. :)
- praveen9920 6y ago
  This highly unsubstantiated claim raised by right wing of India.
  - sshlocalhost 6y ago
    I disagree. I am a South East Asian aka Malaysian. Most of the news articles related to India always show negative light about Hinduism and defame Hindu practices.
  - sshlocalhost 6y ago
    A quick look on the official India's sub reddit should be a good guage. r/india.
sssk 6y ago
The government's perspective. Apparently, the bank account that was frozen violated money laundering laws and was upheld by a court. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/linked-private-company-under-ed-probe-not-amnesty-ngo-government-sources/articleshow/78383354.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/...

ahiknsr 6y ago

some useful links for more context: https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/21/indias-ngo-backlash/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/21/indias-ngo-backlash/ https://www.firstpost.com/india/kudankulam-protests-3-ngos-lose-licence-for-diverting-funds-224821.html https://www.firstpost.com/india/kudankulam-protests-3-ngos-l...

Karupan 6y ago

I saved this in my bookmarks a while back when reading up on this topic - the alleged Indian Intelligence Bureau (IB) report published in 2014 [0] [0] https://www.scribd.com/document/229493571/IB-Report-NGO https://www.scribd.com/document/229493571/IB-Report-NGO

djsumdog 6y ago
Ohio State is mentioned in this. Are there any other sources on their involvement?
intended 6y ago
Hey! someone else has that document saved. It is absolutely hilarious and tragic. When it came out, I read the report and realized that it was a hack job, and sure enough - not one person knew its contents, despite the news channels and whatsapp declaring NGOs as enemy number 1. I've commented elsewhere in this thread how that report says that writing hand written notes is an attempt to evade scanners, and that using google maps and adding pins to it is evidence of near super villain levels of plotting to end India's coal power dreams - by Greenpeace.

quirmian 6y ago

The slow judicial system is the biggest weapon that the government and other large entities with money have. Not everyone can afford to put their lives on hold for 3 years while a court case slowly winds its way up to a judge.

johnnydoe9 6y ago
Toyota recently pulled out of the country due to ineffective bureaucracy and that's when they're pushing for more manufacturing. In cases like these there's no way for them to fight if they're against you.
- krtkush 6y ago
  > Toyota recently pulled out of the country That is incorrect. Toyota is halting expansion in India not pulling out.
  - johnnydoe9 6y ago
    Yeah my bad, halting expansion. Kia encountered major issues as well but continued in a different state IIRC
    - kumarharsh 6y ago
      https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/auto/cars-uvs/toyota-kirloskar-motor-reiterates-its-commitment-to-indian-market/articleshow/78163191.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/auto/cars-uvs/...
- kumarharsh 6y ago
  Toyota is NOT pulling out of India, and neither is it not expanding/investing more money. It was a newsbyte spread by some papers w/o citing named sources. The news was refuted by Government officials as well as Toyota India's Vice Chairman, who said Toyota would be investing about 20 Billion INR over the next 12 months. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/auto/cars-uvs/toyota-kirloskar-motor-reiterates-its-commitment-to-indian-market/articleshow/78163191.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/auto/cars-uvs/...

nabla9 6y ago

Hindu nationalism is just like any nationalism. It harms liberties. India: Arrests of Activists Politically Motivated https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/16/india-arrests-activists-politically-motivated https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/16/india-arrests-activists-... Under Modi, India's Press Not Free Anymore https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/world/asia/modi-india-press-media.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/world/asia/modi-india-pre... Critics of India’s Modi Government Face Sedition Charges https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/critics-of-indias-modi-government-face-sedition-charges/ https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/critics-of-indias-modi-gover... Is free speech under threat in Modi’s India? Activists, journalists, lawyers and academics are concerned that free speech in India is deteriorating (2017) https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/08/03/is-free-speech-under-threat-in-modis-india/ https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/08/03/is-free-speech...

apexkid 6y ago
This is all motivated reporting. India has such a strong and independent judicial system which does its job. If any charges are put incorrectly then courts will grant relief. India is democratic country.
- deskamess 6y ago
  >India has such a strong and independent judicial system which does its job. Eh... no it does not. The Supreme Court has capitulated; it rubber stamps anything coming out of Modi Inc. Do you not follow whats going on? Why don't you address all of the issues that the parent poster bought up?
  - nilsocket 6y ago
    An iota of evidence?
    - harichinnan 6y ago
      https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/former-cji-ranjan-gogoi-nominated-to-rajya-sabha/article31085274.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/former-cji-ranjan-gog...

apexkid 6y ago

Indians are very pleased at this decision. Amnesty has been a major organization to hold biased views of human rights of terrorist in Kashmir without accounting for the loss of citizens life that are damaged due to terrorism. Their agenda has always been motivated while operating in India. A diverse and large country like India doesn't need such an organization preaching whats right. India is largest democracy on face of earth.

apexkid 6y ago
Amnesty's resources are better spent in operating in those countries where there is no democracy such as middle east, africa, china, etc. Good they got an exit from India where they are useless :)
- yxhuvud 6y ago
  They could also chose to operate in regions where there is no democracy. Like in the Kashmir region.
  - ranjitcool1 6y ago
    It’s not your fault that you lack knowledge, should have taught you well at the right age. Sorry too late for you
  - malware7 6y ago
    Kashmir is in India which is definitely a democracy. In fact it was democratic governments who gave and took away kashmir's autonomy.
  - sbmthakur 6y ago
    It's been several decades that Kashmir has a crippled democracy, no thanks to the insurgency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_Jammu_and_Kashmir#1987%E2%80%932004 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurgency_in_Jammu_and_Kashmi...
    - 6y ago

ssrs 6y ago

Good riddance. They should go to the US, Pakistan and Sweden and crib and cry about the state of minorities there. All the best to them!

caf 6y ago
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/united-states-of-america/report-united-states-of-america/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/americas/united-states-... https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/pakistan/report-pakistan/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/asia-and-the-pacific/pa... https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/europe-and-central-asia/sweden/report-sweden/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/countries/europe-and-central-asia...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

azifali 6y ago

BJP the ruling party is sliding India into totalitarianism.

swarnie_ 6y ago
A good chunk of the world has shifted that way since 2000, its actually baffling.
- sumedh 6y ago
  Maybe because social media helps demagogues spread their message?
  - malware7 6y ago
    Or is it that the monopoly of leftists over "the truth" is falling apart.
    - sumedh 6y ago
      What is the "the truth"
      - malware7 6y ago
        Leftists lost their control over the global (and local) narrative with the rise of social media. So, now they have to hide behind the disguise of NGO's to push their narrative because nobody trusts their news.
  - baud147258 6y ago
    I don't think demagogues ever needed social media to spread their messages
- rmrfrmrf 6y ago
  It turns out that not everyone appreciates being turned into an economic client state of the US. Nationalism is a direct reaction meant to (whether effective or not) reaffirm sovreignty.

naruvimama 6y ago

World's largest democracy vs NGO with shady foreign funding, forced to shutdown because they are asked to make their operations transparent. Enough said, India is the only major functional democracy in region filed with autocratic communist and theocratic states, where stoning people for blasphemy and organ harvesting is the norm. At the end of the day that is how democracies need to work and those of you spewing rhetoric against the current disposition have revealed the wolf within your sheep clothing.

ashleshbiradar 6y ago
shady foreign funding, please share some sources to back up your claim, or it is not a productive comment.
- malware7 6y ago
  https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/cbi-raids-amnesty-india-offices-in-bengaluru-and-new-delhi/articleshow/72074572.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-natio...
  - ashleshbiradar 6y ago
    that just says the government agencies raided the offices of AII, it doesn't prove any wrongdoing. Exactly the kind of harassment AII is talking about in the article linked above, only if you had read it in the first place before making his comment.
    - malware7 6y ago
      A goverment doing what it can in the limits of law is harassment now. Wow!

sidmkp96 6y ago

HN should take down this post. The country has been heavily polarized into two sections (pro-bjp and against-bjp) with both the sections heavily incentivised by the "IT" deptt of respective political parties. Very few will talk about the actual issue and most of the comments will be rhetorical, only focusing on what they believe is right.

sumedh 6y ago
> only focusing on what they believe is right. So what is "right" as per your belief?
ashleshbiradar 6y ago
this post is from a reputed source, I see no reason why it should be taken down. As far as I am concerned, this is not a subjective thing, the crack down on Amnesty International in the country is not subject to individual opinions.
- malware7 6y ago
  It just happens that the "reputed source" itself is under question for source of their funding. What you consider reputed is your opinion, not a fact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_International https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Amnesty_Internati...
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    Wikipedia is not a good source for anything remotely controversial at this time. One of the founders did a great post on it: https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikipedia-is-badly-biased/ https://larrysanger.org/2020/05/wikipedia-is-badly-biased/ If you do read Wikipedia, always do two things: 1) Read the Talk page 2) Go to the history and read the same article from 2005 ~ 2010
  - ashleshbiradar 6y ago
    lol, dude, the criticism is mostly from authoritarian countries, China, Iran, Russia, or countries that violate human rights, Sri Lanka(the entire issue with tamils), or US(Guantánamo Bay).

ashleshbiradar 6y ago

this needs to be looked with the recent updates to FCRA rules, which completely cripple civil societies. https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/icj-says-fcra-bill-incompatible-with-international-law/article32685688.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/icj-says-fcra-bill-in... https://scroll.in/article/973909/behind-the-new-rules-for-ngos-to-get-foreign-funds-a-clear-political-message-fall-in-line https://scroll.in/article/973909/behind-the-new-rules-for-ng...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

iKevinShah 6y ago

One thing that comments so far down here do not highlight is that there was a recent change in the Foreign Contribution (Regulation) Act where there were changes in the amount of money / limit of administrative expenditure that can be allocated to foreign contributions to 20 percent from the previous 50 percent and, Enforcement Directorate had issued a show-cause notice to Amnesty International India recently (I think in 2019). So while yeah, online discussions mostly conclude to simplest possible explanation i.e. authoritarian / totalitarian / nationalism / and what not - This notice comes just days after FCRA was changed in India, that might be the pushing point / breakpoint towards closure rather than "Government Witchhunt", because Amnesty has been getting the show-causes notices for some time now.

john_max_1 6y ago
Thanks for saying this. I don't know why everything has to be reduced to "Nazis".
iamshs 6y ago
Rose by any other name... Amnesty India has not been convicted of any FCRA violation. India has frozen Amnesty's bank accounts without any judicial oversight making sure Amnesty India cannot function normally. FCRA was amended with a specific aim in mind. Hindu Nationalist groups have been vocal about religious conversions. FCRA was recently used to target 4 Christian organizations and choke their foreign funding [1]. It is a witch-hunt specifically because Amnesty was harassed by Delhi Police about why they were probing Delhi Religious Riots 2020 and had released the report about the Police excesses in the same? It was after this that Delhi Police targeted Amnesty using FCRA law. [2] Amnesty India's former head put it succintly: "It has become a crime to work on human rights in India." "Amnesty has not been convicted. It has not even been put on trial in court. Shutdown refers to inability to pay salaries because accounts frozen for second time without any determination of guilt." [3] FCRA is just bureaucratic powerslam without going through courts to target organization that asks for transparency. India joins highly regarding company of Russia in pushing Amnesty from their country. [1] - https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/government-suspends-fcra-clearance-of-4-christian-groups/article32535766.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/government-suspends-f... [2] - https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/amnesty-report-on-delhi-riots-lopsided-biased-police/article32500328.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/amnesty-report-on... [3] - https://twitter.com/Aakar__Patel/status/1310844601767309312 https://twitter.com/Aakar__Patel/status/1310844601767309312

0xmohit 6y ago

Worth noting is the fact that the government is charging protestors and dissenters under sedition and UAPA [0]. > In July 2019,the ambit of UAPA was expanded. It was amended allowing the government to designate an individual as a terrorist without trial. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Activities_(Prevention)_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Activities_(Preventio...

djsumdog 6y ago
> protestors and dissenters There are massacres going on it seems. In America we are seeing rioters constantly classified by the media as protestors. If a group is literally slaughtering the other group, protestor seems like the wrong word.
- doomslice 6y ago
  > In America we are seeing rioters constantly classified by the media as protestors. Could you show me some instances of this? I've heard this repeated but I haven't actually seen it myself.
  - djsumdog 6y ago
    I made this video on CHAZ: https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-bd19-44fea7966c27 https://battlepenguin.video/videos/watch/9f81cd38-3ee9-4f26-... Here are some of the rioters in Portland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zthJUf31MA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zthJUf31MA Here are some peaceful protestors trying to break into a Federal Courthouse in Portland using a circular saw: https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1286915433828724736 https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1286915433828724736 Portland rioters were also disguising themselves as press: https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1286944321107763200 https://twitter.com/MrOlmos/status/1286944321107763200 Donut does a good job of documenting the riots in Portland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHb3xVqxcp8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHb3xVqxcp8 The fact that you've heard this and haven't seen it, shows just how terrible, corrupt and useless the American media is. Our media is only pushing hate: https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1300290897922453504 https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/130029089792245350...

liar_brigade 6y ago

I see this thread is being brigaded by the usual right-wing Indian nationalists who think Modi can do no wrong and the Hindu majority is somehow, inexplicably, under threat.

malware7 6y ago
Modi can't be always right just like Amnesty India. If they are so sure about honesty of their work, they should fight the court case instead of running away. Did you create an account just to bait here?
- liar_brigade 6y ago
  And your comments all over this thread are good examples of this. So, thanks for proving my point.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

ranjitcool1 6y ago

It’s easy to diss India without knowing the ground facts. There has been major bias by these organizations where they show mercy and protests for terrorits but none for the people killed by them. Being anti govt by calling right wing Hindu nationalist is BS. India has seen years of corruption and I can attest that things have never been better and improving Commenting on the recent CAA legislation without reading it fully tells me that you failed your schooling. While you scream BJP as Hindu nationalist party, it has many Muslim members and a majority of Muslims voted for BJP because of its strong leadership. Why don’t you and Amnesty take time to address the Uighurs Muslims who are in a Chinese camp being brain washed, all 10 million of them while their mosques are being destroyed? Oh wait i forgot, a lot of hypocrites linger here.

SimplyUseless 6y ago

What has this post got anything to do with Startups? HN has become irrelevant when the reason is to make impacts in the startup world and less on how the political landscape works. The only reason this post is important is because a lot of the techies are Indians and you can see from the comments on why these discussions are so important for them. We could go on and bring up political unrests in China, Afghanistan, ISIS, Russia, Palestine/Israel, America and so on however the fact is that HN policies should down vote such posts.

deskamess 6y ago
You have never seen a non-startup post here? Nothing about racism or job or caste discrimination? You can completely avoid participating in this discussion. Worst case, the article takes up two lines on the main story page. Two lines that your eyes can scroll by. You do not have to click. I see a lot of users are triggered by the reality of whats happening in India. In general, we see a lot of that when any anti-caste or stories not favorable to the current govt are posted.
- sshlocalhost 6y ago
  This is very ignorant of Hinduism. Hinduism does NOT validate caste discrimination. Read more https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/157/what-is-the-purpose-of-the-caste-system-how-has-it-changed https://hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/157/what-is-the...
djsumdog 6y ago
This post will pretty quickly fall off the front page. Political and controversial posts often do. If you find one, be glad. Look at it closely. Look how many comments are in the grey. There is a lot of controversy. Always scroll to the bottom too and look at the heated debate. I've had friends in Australia who would always criticize Amnesty International and talked about the harm the organization harmed. I liked a lot of the videos they produced in the 2000s, including their video against US torture by the CIA and the documentary The Anatomy of Hate. But it's important to see all sides of and organization, and reading these comments and looking at all of the sources on all sides, I can see why a lot of people oppose them and how they can also do a lot of harm. These posts don't stay on the front page for long. Learn from them. This is the information the main stream media keeps from you.

shadowprofile77 6y ago

Is it just my skewed perception of more or less recent reporting about India's politics or is the supposed largest democracy on Earth slowly turning into an authoritarian nationalist state to a degree it hasn't seen in many years. Honestly curious, not a rhetorical question, in case anyone can clarify this with better information or first-hand understanding.

SpicyLemonZest 6y ago
I think it's less recent reporting. I don't know a ton about the country's recent history, but India was very much founded as a nationalist state, and the PM position was held by the same family for about 50 years after independence.
srean 6y ago
As an Indian residing in India this certainly feels so. Things have become bad enough that people self-censor. People have been arrested for sharing jokes about politicians to their personal friends over email or social media. Some have been heckled and beaten up. Such people have no recourse. Even if the local govt pretends to act, the perpetrators immediately gets a bail, because the courts are very much in bed with the politics, more so at the lower courts. Made up and nonbailable charges have been slapped on university professors who have criticized the government. They are not tried on the usual court but handled by a special anti-terrorism body called the NIA that has special powers and provisions to secrecy that ordinary courts do not have. https://scroll.in/article/959082/i-cant-counter-state-propaganda-anand-teltumbes-open-letter-a-day-before-he-is-to-be-arrested https://scroll.in/article/959082/i-cant-counter-state-propag... Political opponents are harassed by income tax raids even when nothing much come put of the raids. Its just an intimidation tactic where people with government authorization tear your apartment apart and grab documents that they can hold on to as long as they want for the harassments value.
- nilsocket 6y ago
  Okay you follow fake news scroll. Real story about Bhima Koregaon, https://www.opindia.com/2018/01/battle-of-koregaon-lessons-in-unity/ https://www.opindia.com/2018/01/battle-of-koregaon-lessons-i... Don't say OpIndia is right-wing citing Wikipedia and non-sense. How about you counter this with proper sources, like it is done in the above article with primary sources. Or else, you will be spreading fake news.

kcsomisetty 6y ago

I read in another thread. reproducing the comments here for balanced point of view. "If more than 20% of your funds goes to administrative expenses (office supplies, stationary, tea/coffee, misc), you know there is something shady. Satyam computers, did the same thing, created fake employees, posted huge expenses under admin category for almost 5 years. Later it was found that they were laundering money for YSR from overseas, and went bust and was later acquired by TechMahindra for paisa on the rupee. Amnesty india is probably in knee deep shit and exiting before anything comes to light."

sct202 6y ago
In the US, <15% admin expense is considered good for a charity, and in the US admin expense also include rent, business services (accounting, legal, IT), and leadership costs (for a small org, the leader might be categorized as management but actually be providing services).

arjun1296 6y ago

I am very glad foreign funded vested interest groups working as NGOs like Amnesty International is leaving India for good. NGOs like Amnesty and Greenpeace has been involved in shady work in many places in India, including religious conversion and paid protests in remote villages. Hindus being a global minority need to be cautious and are worried about such conversion activities. Indian govt has been asking NGOs to comply with FCRA Norms and many including Amnesty Internation has failed to file annual returns despite mandatory legal(pre-2014 norms) requirements. India has millions of people living under poverty. To lift them out of poverty they need JOBS. Being an trade partner of US and UK, India has let functioning of shady NGOs like these work wrecklessly. Whether it is Nuclear power plant or Copper plant, NGOs have been involved in mass mobilisation of people by using foreign funds to stall projects so that donor companies benefit. If NGOs are so committed to their objective, they can raise funds from India itself to work for it. They don't need large donations from Multinational Corporation from abroad to raise objections in a democratic manner. By using foreign funds these NGOs have been successful in sabotaging Govt and Public-Private projects. So that donor Corporations can get benefitted. Similar mobilisation was also observed in Australia when Adani has been bidding for Coal mines. NGOs were not working for their objective, but also were transferring money from their account to other NGOs without proper clearance. Shady foreign money transfers from NGOs also prompted authorities to investigate these firms on FEMA Act. If NGOs were so clean, they can fight the battle with local money than CRYING. Foreign fund is NOT needed to fight so-called Hindu nationalism. Foreign fund is NOT needed to raise political objections in a democratic system. One cannot even read a recipe of a proper Gujrati Dhokla nowadays without constant screaming of "rising Hindu nationalism". XD https://www.firstpost.com/india/enforcement-directorate-raids-amnesty-internationals-india-office-in-bengaluru-over-alleged-fema-violations-5448021.html https://www.firstpost.com/india/enforcement-directorate-raid... https://www.bloombergquint.com/law-and-policy/2019/09/05/ed-issues-show-cause-notice-to-amnesty-international-for-violating-foreign-exchange-law https://www.bloombergquint.com/law-and-policy/2019/09/05/ed-... https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/mha-cancels-fcra-licences-of-1300-ngos/articleshow/71964523.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-natio... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/dining/indian-recipes.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/09/dining/indian-recipes.htm...

6y ago

nl 6y ago

I'm not sure people are aware, but most countries find Amnesty International annoying. My own country - Australia - has been frequently criticised by Amnesty (eg [1]). Amnesty's job is to call out human right violations. Citizens of a country may very well say "oh, we don't like these asylum seekers, so we will keep voting for the government that put these laws in place" (in Australia's case). But it isn't Amnesty's job to look at justifications, only violations. A robust, functional democracy should have space to allow critics, and while it might be unrealistic to expect the government to welcome that criticism, a government shouldn't use its power to act in reprisal against critics. Some people in this discussion should consider this carefully. It's one thing to disagree with critics, but quite another to approve of reprisals against those critics. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/australia-pm-rejects-amnesty-internationals-asylum-seeker-torture-claims/a-36072994 https://www.dw.com/en/australia-pm-rejects-amnesty-internati...

liar_brigade 6y ago
This is true, but sadly, organizations that value and promote human rights are always going to be targeted right-wing extremists, as they are fundamentally opposed to this ideal. Especially true in India now that they have their own Hindu Hitler.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

screye 6y ago

I mostly agree with them, but > transparency in the government, more recently for accountability of the Delhi police and the Government of India regarding the grave human rights violations in Delhi riots and Jammu & Kashmir all of these have been issues with every Indian Govt. for decades. I don't see anything about 2021 that would be a straw that'd break a camel's back. The FRCA too has been the favorite tool for every govt. from 1976, for harassing NGOs. The changes to the law itself aren't as terrible. > The NGO/FRCA license now expires in 5 years instead of being permanent Not a terrible idea in a functioning society. In India, it becomes a tool getting fresh bribes out of groups and trapping them in bureaucracy. > Less than 50% of foreign funds can be used for administrative expenses IMO, really smart change. I personally know of Indian NGOs that primarily serve as money laundering mechanisms. On paper, doesn't seem like a bad change at all. > The law now extends to trade/student/workers' unions, women’s wing of a political party, farmers’ organisations, youth organisations based on caste, community, religion, language and organizations that engage in strikes/ blockages/ protests / political action. Some of these changes are sensible. unions and youth organizations in India are well known to be tools of political parties. If a law had to be applied, it has to at least be consistent. The part of orgs. that engage in protest is more divisive, especially with the discussion around foreign funding to control opinion becoming a huge thing in the US. Should outside funding be allowed to facilitate political opinion in a nation? To me, the answer isn't that clear. Both sides of the argument have strong points in favor. ______________ I am generally averse to expanding Govt. power, especially given how corrupt every Indian one has been. The FRCA was terrible, and like the patriot act is something that only serves to expand state power. That being said, to spin it as a "hindu nationalist" initiative is political posturing. Anyone who believes that Indian Media's pro-ruling party agenda, religious riots, sedition charges or harassment of activists started or even peaked in the Modi Govt., has been willfully ignorant about the continuing violation of freedoms that Indian Govts. have been part of since Indira Gandhi in the 70s. ______________ In the spirit of transparency, I have an incredibly low opinion of both journalists and activists in India. The complete lack of nuance in how they approach the issues they champion is a glaring example of it. The worst aspect, is that the most egregious ones get widespread coverage in respected western outlets. Western thought leaders have time and again demonstrated an incredibly limited understanding on complex non-western societies. Whether that be in Africa, China, SEA or India. However, english, open-ness of Indian society, post colonial guilt and its size lead to the most egregious cases being in India. Lastly, can't be pointing out problems without suggesting solutions. Recently, one of the few journalists I respect immensely (Shekhar Gupta) has started an online-only subscription based media house called the Print. I have found them to be the closest thing to fair journalism in India. The Caravan is another subscription based media outlet that is well respected among my peers (whom I respect) although I personally I am less impressed by it.

anuraj 6y ago

Indian Hindu Nationalist government has now removed all garbs and is a full on fascism. They have scant regard for law or constitution. They have absolute control over all the 4 pillars of democracy and is effectively controlling popular opinion.

throwaway4good 6y ago

Also surpression in Kashmir seems to have escalated over the past year with removal of local governance and blockade of internet access. It is not a good combination: Escalating human rights abuses, an economy in freefall, pandemic, border skirmishes with China, nationalism, crackdown on ethnic minorities ...

malware7 6y ago
>> crackdown on ethnic minorities Which minorities?
- throwaway4good 6y ago
  About 10% of India's population is muslim however in Kashmir they are a majority which I think is more or less the root cause of the Kashmir conflict.
  - malware7 6y ago
    I wonder how did muslims became majority in kashmir? Do you know? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus Now that the these refugees are coming back o their motherland, propagandists are busy labelling it as hindu occupation and minority oppression.
    - arjun1296 6y ago
      Globally, Hindus are a minority. So whether its a liberal or conservative foreigner(Christian or Muslim), to them Muslims are usually a minority. And foreigners are easily susceptible to believe the claims of Muslims being a minority without even checking the realities. Tthey almost always fail to understand that it is Hindus who is the real minority in Jammu and Kashmir. Morevoer, Christians and Muslims are of Abhrahamic origins and their morality is skewed in favor of their version of worship and social norms. Idol-worshippers like Hindus are considered beastly and low-life. So don't expect foreigners to accept what Hindus says as our moralities are going to cut through their doctrinal abhrahamic morality though they are separate religions.

nilsocket 6y ago

How about people educate themselves regarding Amnesty. https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnesty-international-its-links-to-radical-islam-and-british-government/ https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnes...

commoner 6y ago
> OpIndia is an Indian right-wing news portal founded in 2014 by Rahul Raj and Kumar Kamal. The website has published fake news and anti-Muslim commentary on multiple occasions, including a 2020 incident in which it falsely claimed that a Hindu boy was sacrificed in a Bihar mosque. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpIndia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpIndia
- apexkid 6y ago
  You must be an NDTV viewer so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDTV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NDTV
- nilsocket 6y ago
  Can you show, some evidence that they share fake news like quint, wire, NDTV, and other left media, ...
nilsocket 6y ago
https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnesty-international-its-links-to-radical-islam-and-british-government/ https://www.opindia.com/2019/09/the-life-and-crimes-of-amnes... https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/india-has-31-lakh-ngos-twice-the-number-of-schools-almost-twice-number-of-policemen/ https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/india-h...

dharmach 6y ago

Amnesty international and other Western NGOs are moral sticks of rich countries to browbeat erstwhile colonies for not maintaining high living standards post exploitation.

djsumdog 6y ago
NGOs typically do a lot of harm. They're the means by which high income countries enforce policies that keep developing countries in debt to them, in order to extract resources. The 2011 book "The Dictator's Handbook" does a good job of detailing how this works.

known 6y ago

Since whistle blower protection in India is inadequate/inefficient proliferation of TRUTH is stopped in the name of loyalty, discipline, patriotism, job security, national security, intellectual property etc https://archive.is/VWFSC https://archive.is/VWFSC

lambainsaan 6y ago

This is a big big news. Very sad that Amenesty is halting its work. It could be the case that Amenesty really had some problems in its Indian org, I am not a judge, not going to jump to any conclusions, but if the BJP led government is really trying to curb the work that Amenesty is doing by using central agencies that's very very scary. I feel India is going on a wrong track, it was doing okay in regards to Democratic values until Modi came to power, and since then it is on a downwards trajectory in that department. I have not seen any media house putting out any news which condemn decision that Modi makes, all are just praising Modi for god knows what reason. This ain't even a news in India, they are all running behind Bollywood celebs. I feel Indian people are one-two generation(s) away, most of the Indian people can't really digest democracy at the moment.

nilsocket 6y ago

https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1170009663385026560?s=09 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/117000966338502656... https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/1310969459054538754?s=20 https://twitter.com/ARanganathan72/status/131096945905453875...

LordAtlas 6y ago

Unfortunately, the BJP's notorious troll army (also known as the "IT cell") has invaded HN also, and pop up whenever our government's misdeeds are discussed. Remember that this is the same govt that has restricted the speech of the state of Jammu and Kashmir by cutting off their Internet access completely and later, restricting them to a mere 2G connection and to "approved" websites. [1] It modified the UAPA law to basically designate any Indian citizen a "terrorist" and hold them indefinitely without bail. And used the law to arrest and detain people protesting against a controversial law. [2] The same government that set up a "donation fund" called "PM Cares", ostensibly to help people affected by Covid-19 and lockdown, but then refused to divulge details under our RTI - Right to Information Act - claiming it was not a public authority. [3] But then exempted this fund from the same draconian FCRA rules [4] Oh, if that's not enough, this government also passed a law exempting political parties from scrutiny in foreign funding under the FCRA. Want to guess which is the richest political party in India now? Google it. [5] Did I mention they also introduced "electoral bonds" to allow anonymous corporate funding for political parties? [6] Amnesty International was drawing too much attention to the human rights abuses of the government, so the state has come down with all its might on it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Kashmir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Kashmir [2] https://www.thequint.com/news/law/no-bail-in-uapa-cases-regardless-of-evidence-watali-judgment-supreme-court https://www.thequint.com/news/law/no-bail-in-uapa-cases-rega... [3] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/coronavirus-pm-cares-is-not-a-public-authority-under-rti-act-pmo/article31712146.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/coronavirus-pm-cares-... [4] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/pm-cares-fund-gets-fcra-exemption-without-meeting-pre-condition-of-cag-audit/article32584371.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/pm-cares-fund-gets-fc... [5] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/lok-sabha-passes-bill-to-exempt-political-parties-from-scrutiny-on-foreign-funds-without-debate/article23285764.ece https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/lok-sabha-passes-bill... [6] https://www.newindianexpress.com/opinions/2019/dec/01/time-to-end-the-legal-corruption-of-electoral-bonds-2069540.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/opinions/2019/dec/01/time-t...

david4532452 6y ago

This discussion like most HN discussions are hijacked by extremist agenda pushers who keep throwing in out-of-context words like nationalism, caste, religion, etc irrelevantly. A simple search shows why Indian govt froze the bank accounts. Amnesty International continues to violate Indian laws (FCRA) time and again by not disclosing their source of funds. They were investigated a decade ago by the previous government too for money laundering (for people crying hoarse on current government), and Amnesty International halted all it's work then too. All foreign funding/donations needs to be approved based on FCRA act. Instead of obeying the laws, Amnesty channeled money through various private or other sister orgs, claiming it is remittances for services exported. They lost the case in the State courts couple of times and my guess is they didn't want to risk going to the Supreme court and lose again. So instead of complying with the law, it's time to spin the story against the Indian government. https://www.deccanherald.com/national/linked-private-company-under-ed-probe-not-amnesty-govt-sources-894798.html https://www.deccanherald.com/national/linked-private-company... https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/current-affairs-trends/mha-says-amnesty-did-not-have-fcra-approval-illegally-rerouted-money-to-circumvent-domestic-laws-5900951.html https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/current-affairs-tre...