6 ms·

How lovely. Is this affordable anywhere other than a petrostate?

brtkdotse 6y ago
Neighboring Sweden has an even better system without oil money
pi-rat 6y ago
Apparently yes: https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-with-best-parental-leave-2016-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-with-best-parental...
sdfqasdghj 6y ago
Yes. Sweden and Germany do it. Actually Norwegian parental leave is not that generous by the standards of similar countries. There is one year total of leave shared between mother and father (or other mother).
- black_knight 6y ago
  On the other hand, in Norway you can get 100% up to a quite large maximum. As opposed to 80% capped at 1000SEK per day in Sweden. Edit: Living in Norway is more expensive though. So a family of low income might not have been able to sustain themselves if the compensation was lower.
- dx034 6y ago
  Germany has a much more restrictive system though. 65% and a cap that pretty much anyone with a college degree will hit. So in reality you look at 30-50% for most people. Still nice, especially given the job guarantee, but very restrictive in who can take it if you have bills to pay.
  - parasight 6y ago
    In my experience the Elterngeld usually replaces one income in a double income family. Of course one will "loose" money if the cap hits, but hey its 1800 EUR per month for up to 14 months just for being a parent. I think it is awesome even if it is just 30% of your regular salary.
    - dx034 6y ago
      The problem just is that it's often infeasible to replace the higher income. And since women in their early 30s are (unfortunately) often paid worse on average than men (due to many factors), women stay out longer and lose out even more.
gspr 6y ago
> How lovely. Is this affordable anywhere other than a petrostate? Of course. Like so many other things, it's a matter of priorities.
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
You only get born once. I think its right of the child, moreso than that of parents, to be looked after at birth. It does not happen that often that we should be talking about affordability. On the other hand, can we afford mutinationals paying no taxes?
fsloth 6y ago
Yes. It's more of a matter of culture and priorities than excessive expenses.
- andrepd 6y ago
  It's a matter of money more than it's a matter of "culture".
  - alkonaut 6y ago
    Counterexample: Sweden is arguably less "rich" than both Norway and the US and has a more generous system than both.
  - Sharlin 6y ago
    Yes, in the sense that rich Western countries can afford things like that. And many do, whether they’re ”petrostates” or not. But what about the richest country of them all? Tell me that the US couldn’t afford it if they really wanted!
    - andrepd 6y ago
      Nowhere did I talk about the US. I'm Southern European.
  - mcv 6y ago
    No, it's more a matter of culture. Any wealthy industrialised country can easily afford this. The difference is in how much value they attach to family, child care and parenthood. For all its talk about "family values", the US doesn't seem to care much about families; it's one of the few countries in the world without paid maternity leave (the others are Papua New Guinea, Lesotho and Swaziland), and it has the highest maternity death rate in the developed world. And the US is not a poor country by any means; this is really a matter of culture and values.
    - andrepd 6y ago
      >It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of culture. Any wealthy country can afford this. ???
mcv 6y ago
Being a petrostate has nothing to do with it. Any healthy economy can afford this, if they care about parenthood.
oblio 6y ago
Romania, bang average country (GDP per capita almost equal to world average), not even classified as a high income economy and with a GDP per capita 1/6th of the US one is currently offering up to 18 months of maternity leave at 80% pay. There is a paternity leave, I forgot how long, I think it's at least a few weeks if not months. If there's a will, there's a way. Oh, our external debt is about 40% and our tax rates are largely comparable to Western ones. So far the only signs of collapse seem to be coming from Communist era buildings :-p
- ChuckNorris89 6y ago
  And our collapsing public healthcare system. :P As my dad who still lives there told me, unless you know someone in the system or pay the doctors bribes or go to their private offices(because of course) they won't lift a finger to help you and just leave you sink in the healthcare bottomless pit of endless misery, bureaucracy and waiting lists where you keep being bounced around like a hot potato that nobody gives a damn about. If you actually want to be taken care of the right way, you have to pay up or know someone in the system. And once you end up in the underfunded public hospitals, you then have to pay the nurses to take care of you and not leave you in your own sh!t, buy medicine, toilet paper and food out of pocket as what you get there is lacking or sub-standard. Basically, if you're poor, you're f*cked. But yeah, at least on paper, some Romanian laws still got some things right, even compared to richer countries. Too bad that major corruption is eating all that away.
  - oblio 6y ago
    That's on corruption, as you said. I doubt we don't have money for at least decent healthcare. I'm not talking Western standards, just: - clean hospitals - punctual appointments - basic services covered
    - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
      Well we would have money for proper healthcare but due to corruption we don't have money as a lot of it goes into the pockets of politically influencial despots. Everything being bought with public funds ends up being bought through middle men at 10x the price.
ddnb 6y ago
These aren't expensive policies, yes its cost is more than 0, but what country would honestly be bankrupted by this?

Neighboring Sweden has an even better system without oil money

Apparently yes: https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-with-best-parental-leave-2016-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-with-best-parental...

sdfqasdghj 6y ago

Yes. Sweden and Germany do it. Actually Norwegian parental leave is not that generous by the standards of similar countries. There is one year total of leave shared between mother and father (or other mother).

black_knight 6y ago
On the other hand, in Norway you can get 100% up to a quite large maximum. As opposed to 80% capped at 1000SEK per day in Sweden. Edit: Living in Norway is more expensive though. So a family of low income might not have been able to sustain themselves if the compensation was lower.
dx034 6y ago
Germany has a much more restrictive system though. 65% and a cap that pretty much anyone with a college degree will hit. So in reality you look at 30-50% for most people. Still nice, especially given the job guarantee, but very restrictive in who can take it if you have bills to pay.
- parasight 6y ago
  In my experience the Elterngeld usually replaces one income in a double income family. Of course one will "loose" money if the cap hits, but hey its 1800 EUR per month for up to 14 months just for being a parent. I think it is awesome even if it is just 30% of your regular salary.
  - dx034 6y ago
    The problem just is that it's often infeasible to replace the higher income. And since women in their early 30s are (unfortunately) often paid worse on average than men (due to many factors), women stay out longer and lose out even more.

gspr 6y ago

> How lovely. Is this affordable anywhere other than a petrostate? Of course. Like so many other things, it's a matter of priorities.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

You only get born once. I think its right of the child, moreso than that of parents, to be looked after at birth. It does not happen that often that we should be talking about affordability. On the other hand, can we afford mutinationals paying no taxes?

fsloth 6y ago

Yes. It's more of a matter of culture and priorities than excessive expenses.

andrepd 6y ago
It's a matter of money more than it's a matter of "culture".
- alkonaut 6y ago
  Counterexample: Sweden is arguably less "rich" than both Norway and the US and has a more generous system than both.
- Sharlin 6y ago
  Yes, in the sense that rich Western countries can afford things like that. And many do, whether they’re ”petrostates” or not. But what about the richest country of them all? Tell me that the US couldn’t afford it if they really wanted!
  - andrepd 6y ago
    Nowhere did I talk about the US. I'm Southern European.
- mcv 6y ago
  No, it's more a matter of culture. Any wealthy industrialised country can easily afford this. The difference is in how much value they attach to family, child care and parenthood. For all its talk about "family values", the US doesn't seem to care much about families; it's one of the few countries in the world without paid maternity leave (the others are Papua New Guinea, Lesotho and Swaziland), and it has the highest maternity death rate in the developed world. And the US is not a poor country by any means; this is really a matter of culture and values.
  - andrepd 6y ago
    >It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of culture. Any wealthy country can afford this. ???

mcv 6y ago

Being a petrostate has nothing to do with it. Any healthy economy can afford this, if they care about parenthood.

oblio 6y ago

Romania, bang average country (GDP per capita almost equal to world average), not even classified as a high income economy and with a GDP per capita 1/6th of the US one is currently offering up to 18 months of maternity leave at 80% pay. There is a paternity leave, I forgot how long, I think it's at least a few weeks if not months. If there's a will, there's a way. Oh, our external debt is about 40% and our tax rates are largely comparable to Western ones. So far the only signs of collapse seem to be coming from Communist era buildings :-p

ChuckNorris89 6y ago
And our collapsing public healthcare system. :P As my dad who still lives there told me, unless you know someone in the system or pay the doctors bribes or go to their private offices(because of course) they won't lift a finger to help you and just leave you sink in the healthcare bottomless pit of endless misery, bureaucracy and waiting lists where you keep being bounced around like a hot potato that nobody gives a damn about. If you actually want to be taken care of the right way, you have to pay up or know someone in the system. And once you end up in the underfunded public hospitals, you then have to pay the nurses to take care of you and not leave you in your own sh!t, buy medicine, toilet paper and food out of pocket as what you get there is lacking or sub-standard. Basically, if you're poor, you're f*cked. But yeah, at least on paper, some Romanian laws still got some things right, even compared to richer countries. Too bad that major corruption is eating all that away.
- oblio 6y ago
  That's on corruption, as you said. I doubt we don't have money for at least decent healthcare. I'm not talking Western standards, just: - clean hospitals - punctual appointments - basic services covered
  - ChuckNorris89 6y ago
    Well we would have money for proper healthcare but due to corruption we don't have money as a lot of it goes into the pockets of politically influencial despots. Everything being bought with public funds ends up being bought through middle men at 10x the price.

ddnb 6y ago

These aren't expensive policies, yes its cost is more than 0, but what country would honestly be bankrupted by this?