9 ms·

Cliff Mass spoiled himself for me with this asinine blog post comparing Seattle BLM protesters to brownshirts in Nazi Germany [0]. It feels icky to get behind s

Cliff Mass spoiled himself for me with this asinine blog post comparing Seattle BLM protesters to brownshirts in Nazi Germany [0]. It feels icky to get behind someone who will use his platform to sling ridiculous accusations and accept no criticism [1]. It's a shame - his weather reporting is uniquely good and fun to read. [0] https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2020/08/seattle-city-in-fear-can-be-restored.html https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2020/08/seattle-city-in-fear-... [1] https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2020/08/my-firing-at-knkx.html https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2020/08/my-firing-at-knkx.htm... EDIT: Fleshed out criticism of the original blog post: http://www.dailyuw.com/news/article_8421ecd2-d90c-11ea-9e91-3f2d966a45fd.html http://www.dailyuw.com/news/article_8421ecd2-d90c-11ea-9e91-...

jackyinger 6y ago
I agree that he went off the deep end with that post. Let there’s be no mistake about that; I live on cap hill in Seattle and his analogy falls flat on its face for many reasons. But, I think we should allow ourselves the nuanced perspective of continuing to enjoy his weather posts even if we disagree with his politics. I think that we owe it to ourselves to be able to pick and choose information from a person rather than writing them off entirely. Isn’t that what we do with family members that we have disagreements with but still have to get along with? Are we not all one big human family?
- aaomidi 6y ago
  If a family member compares blm to nazis then no I basically cut them off.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- cmendel 6y ago
  Maybe I'm misunderstanding, are you advocating for continuing to follow a blog that is known to give misinformation because you like the writing style? Because if that is the case I would highly recommend changing your mind, the Bayesian prior has changed and unfortunately it is permanent.
  - cbsks 6y ago
    Just because he gives misleading social commentary, doesn’t mean that his meteorological information is any less accurate.
    - fanatic2pope 6y ago
      How do you know his meteorological information is accurate?
      - cbsks 6y ago
        He is a professor of atmospheric sciences at the University of Washington, a fellow of the American Meteorological Society, and his resume [0] looks impressive to me. I realize that this is an appeal to authority, but since I don’t know enough about meteorology to make an informed decision about the specific information that he gives, his qualifications seem to indicate that he is a trustworthy source of meteorological information. I did a quick internet search and looked him up on Wikipedia. His Wikipedia entry [1] mentions the controversies surrounding his non-professional views, but I didn’t find anything about his meteorological views being in question. Please correct me if I missed something! It can be hard to determine if someone is trustworthy on the internet. [0]: https://a.atmos.washington.edu/%7Ecliff/CliffsVitaeLatest09042019.pdf https://a.atmos.washington.edu/%7Ecliff/CliffsVitaeLatest090... [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Mass https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Mass
  - DaniloDias 6y ago
    Rephrasing what someone wrote in an uncharitable way is a toxic form of communication that will limit your ability to experience diversity of perspective. It annoys everyone around you and will hurt you in the long run. Instead of slapping malignant narratives on people, try asking explorative questions that invite the OP to clarify or make an ass of themselves.
    - cmendel 6y ago
      I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't follow the aforementioned blogger and don't live on the west coast. That said, your response is interesting, how is my query toxic? To be honest, I don't even think I'm being uncharitable; if a previously reliable information source starting being unreliable then I would expect folks to pay attention to notice that and cease to use it as a source. Since you have an opinion on this, what sort of questions should I have asked the OP? To be explicit; I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- mshenfield 6y ago
  Appreciate this perspective! I feel like I'm indirectly supporting his politics by engaging with his weather content. I'm generating ad revenue as a reader. And I'm increasing the size of the platform he can claim, which he can leverage for books, speaking gigs, etc. to promote whatever views he deems important. It's easy for me to find another weather source.
  - jackyinger 6y ago
    You have a point there; a public platform is certainly different than an intra-family affair. You’re right about the breadth of viewership being a potential problem. Many folks believe anything they read. This is where I really hope that individual critical thinking will save us. Media outlets shouldn’t be sources where the consumer feels ok with believing everything they hear. I think if that were not the case deplatforming wouldn’t be as appealing of an option as it currently is for handling these situations. Alas, I’m not confident that critical thinking is alive (much less well) when so many people apparently think along party lines. Probably deplatforming Cliff was the right thing to do in the big picture.
  - oasisbob 6y ago
    I'm actively looking for better sources. Honestly, one of my biggest problems with Cliff isn't even a new one ... his blog is almost wholly one-way. He spent all this time to build a platform, but doesn't seem to care about his community at all. Doesn't respond to smart comments, nor dumb ones. Not on busy popular posts, nor quiet ones. Doesn't answer questions at all really.
- DaniloDias 6y ago
  Could you help me understand the reasons? When you are living history, you don’t know that ww2 is around the corner. I think the observations of the similarities between the brown shirts and violent protesters is correct. I don’t know if a better historical parallel. Look what happened to Aaron Danielson. Brown shirts engaged in antagonism and murder towards people they perceived as evil in the same way these Antifa types do. They terrorized businesses the same way these BLM types have been doing. I do not understand the perspective of people who don’t have a regexp that fires on this- I want to be wrong, but I can’t stop seeing problems. I don't understand how these parallels can be so easily dismissed. Is it because you don’t expect it to end in a Holocaust?
  - Can_Not 6y ago
    Yes, it does remind us of how the brownshirts spread false rumors and hysteria about people who opposed the nazis in the years before the holocaust.
    - DaniloDias 6y ago
      ??
  - pravus 6y ago
    At least from my perspective this has been an ongoing problem for many years now and I would refer you to Godwin's law. There is this weird sort of mystique about Hitler and the Nazi Party that keep people entranced that it was "pure evil" rather than a decade-plus political process taking place in a very unique time of history with many other actors in play. You can't use any sort of "slippery slope" argument because of course those don't exist. The fact that you can trace elements of both WW-I and WW-II to at least the mid-1800s in terms of holistic world upheaval doesn't even get mentioned. There doesn't seem to be many students of history these days. Instead what we get is almost fantasy horror and when you try to make serious political arguments they are just dismissed. I mean, it can't happen here because unicorns don't exist either. I also find it troubling that many people have no appreciation for Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao in light of the millions lives that were destroyed after WW-II. Some very horrific acts occurred in the 20th century and debating rather than dismissing these issues seems like not only a good idea, but probably essential if peace and humanity are truly desired.
Kattywumpus 6y ago
I want to thank you for linking to the articles, even if you disagree with him. Calling an observation "offensive" and punishing someone for making it, is not refuting it, or even addressing it. America's tradition has always valued free speech and open debate, and it seems many people on the left no longer value these things. I do find that chilling.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Simon_says 6y ago
I read that article, and it doesn't seem like it's beyond the pale of civil discourse to me. Sounds like cancel culture run amok, which you are now a part of.
finnthehuman 6y ago
I see dozens of more-hyperbolic comparisons of political actions to Nazi Germany than this every week. Made by higher-profile people too. I’m surprised this one even rates on anyone’s radar.
throwawaysea 6y ago
Cliff Mass is 100% right on comparing BLM protesters to brownshirts, and he was also specific in noting that he isn't describing all protesters. The relevant quote from his blog post is "Seattle's brownshirts have hidden within protest groups". Those who say this is an inappropriate comparison are gaslighting, as these criminals have a consistent track record of engaging in violence, intimidation, threats, and more. Let's take a look at what this subset of BLM protesters have done in the Seattle area. They: 1. Harassed the mayor at her house, and issuing death threats like "guillotine Jenny" and writing misogynist messages like "Resign bitch" on her house and the road in front, and used similar tactics at the houses of council members: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/native-leaders-organizations-decry-intimidation-outside-home-of-seattle-city-councils-juarez/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/native-le... 2. Repeatedly blocking bridges and highways, snarling traffic for thousands of drivers, pedestrians, and bicyclists even after their irresponsible highway blockades led to a death: https://www.kuow.org/stories/updates-protests-for-racial-justice-in-the-seattle-a/ https://www.kuow.org/stories/updates-protests-for-racial-jus... 3. Showed up at our black female police chief's neighborhood, started documenting who lives where, noted license plates, and interrogated neighborhood kids for information: https://lynnwoodtimes.com/2020/08/02/hundreds-of-blm-supporters-storm-snohomish-county-neighborhood-to-protest-at-seattle-police-chief-carmen-bests-home/ https://lynnwoodtimes.com/2020/08/02/hundreds-of-blm-support... 4. Even showed up at the houses of council members who agreed to their demands, to intimidate them and make sure they wouldn't change their stance: https://westseattleblog.com/2020/08/protest-evening-march-in-west-seattle-for-5th-time-in-11-nights/ https://westseattleblog.com/2020/08/protest-evening-march-in... 5. Used a homeless camp as a staging area for riots, storing weapons there: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/seattle-police-recover-weapons-homemade-spike-strips-and-mortar-from-cal-anderson-park/ar-BB18DNYe https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/seattle-police-recover-wea... 6. Showed up at white people's homes, demanding that residents leave the neighborhood: https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/08/14/blm-marches-through-seattle-residential-area-demand-white-people-surrender-their-homes-959988 https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/08/14/blm-marches-through-... 7. Made lists of businesses to destroy: https://thepostmillennial.com/antifa-rioters-made-lists-of-seattle-businesses-to-destroy https://thepostmillennial.com/antifa-rioters-made-lists-of-s... How can you not see the valid comparison to brownshirts here? Damaging property, holding drivers hostage on the highway, obstructing others from accessing public infrastructure, committing arson, issuing death threats, and so forth all match the description perfectly. Remember, terrorism is defined as "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes." (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/terrorism https://www.dictionary.com/browse/terrorism). The actions of local BLM activists and Antifa rioters completely fits this description. And given the evidence is so clear, this attempt to cancel Cliff Mass, a distinguished Professor of Atmospheric Science at a major research university, is simply progressive cancel culture run amok.

jackyinger 6y ago

I agree that he went off the deep end with that post. Let there’s be no mistake about that; I live on cap hill in Seattle and his analogy falls flat on its face for many reasons. But, I think we should allow ourselves the nuanced perspective of continuing to enjoy his weather posts even if we disagree with his politics. I think that we owe it to ourselves to be able to pick and choose information from a person rather than writing them off entirely. Isn’t that what we do with family members that we have disagreements with but still have to get along with? Are we not all one big human family?

aaomidi 6y ago
If a family member compares blm to nazis then no I basically cut them off.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
cmendel 6y ago
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, are you advocating for continuing to follow a blog that is known to give misinformation because you like the writing style? Because if that is the case I would highly recommend changing your mind, the Bayesian prior has changed and unfortunately it is permanent.
- cbsks 6y ago
  Just because he gives misleading social commentary, doesn’t mean that his meteorological information is any less accurate.
  - fanatic2pope 6y ago
    How do you know his meteorological information is accurate?
    - cbsks 6y ago
      He is a professor of atmospheric sciences at the University of Washington, a fellow of the American Meteorological Society, and his resume [0] looks impressive to me. I realize that this is an appeal to authority, but since I don’t know enough about meteorology to make an informed decision about the specific information that he gives, his qualifications seem to indicate that he is a trustworthy source of meteorological information. I did a quick internet search and looked him up on Wikipedia. His Wikipedia entry [1] mentions the controversies surrounding his non-professional views, but I didn’t find anything about his meteorological views being in question. Please correct me if I missed something! It can be hard to determine if someone is trustworthy on the internet. [0]: https://a.atmos.washington.edu/%7Ecliff/CliffsVitaeLatest09042019.pdf https://a.atmos.washington.edu/%7Ecliff/CliffsVitaeLatest090... [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Mass https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Mass
- DaniloDias 6y ago
  Rephrasing what someone wrote in an uncharitable way is a toxic form of communication that will limit your ability to experience diversity of perspective. It annoys everyone around you and will hurt you in the long run. Instead of slapping malignant narratives on people, try asking explorative questions that invite the OP to clarify or make an ass of themselves.
  - cmendel 6y ago
    I don't have a dog in this fight. I don't follow the aforementioned blogger and don't live on the west coast. That said, your response is interesting, how is my query toxic? To be honest, I don't even think I'm being uncharitable; if a previously reliable information source starting being unreliable then I would expect folks to pay attention to notice that and cease to use it as a source. Since you have an opinion on this, what sort of questions should I have asked the OP? To be explicit; I'm not trolling, I'm genuinely curious.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mshenfield 6y ago
Appreciate this perspective! I feel like I'm indirectly supporting his politics by engaging with his weather content. I'm generating ad revenue as a reader. And I'm increasing the size of the platform he can claim, which he can leverage for books, speaking gigs, etc. to promote whatever views he deems important. It's easy for me to find another weather source.
- jackyinger 6y ago
  You have a point there; a public platform is certainly different than an intra-family affair. You’re right about the breadth of viewership being a potential problem. Many folks believe anything they read. This is where I really hope that individual critical thinking will save us. Media outlets shouldn’t be sources where the consumer feels ok with believing everything they hear. I think if that were not the case deplatforming wouldn’t be as appealing of an option as it currently is for handling these situations. Alas, I’m not confident that critical thinking is alive (much less well) when so many people apparently think along party lines. Probably deplatforming Cliff was the right thing to do in the big picture.
- oasisbob 6y ago
  I'm actively looking for better sources. Honestly, one of my biggest problems with Cliff isn't even a new one ... his blog is almost wholly one-way. He spent all this time to build a platform, but doesn't seem to care about his community at all. Doesn't respond to smart comments, nor dumb ones. Not on busy popular posts, nor quiet ones. Doesn't answer questions at all really.
DaniloDias 6y ago
Could you help me understand the reasons? When you are living history, you don’t know that ww2 is around the corner. I think the observations of the similarities between the brown shirts and violent protesters is correct. I don’t know if a better historical parallel. Look what happened to Aaron Danielson. Brown shirts engaged in antagonism and murder towards people they perceived as evil in the same way these Antifa types do. They terrorized businesses the same way these BLM types have been doing. I do not understand the perspective of people who don’t have a regexp that fires on this- I want to be wrong, but I can’t stop seeing problems. I don't understand how these parallels can be so easily dismissed. Is it because you don’t expect it to end in a Holocaust?
- Can_Not 6y ago
  Yes, it does remind us of how the brownshirts spread false rumors and hysteria about people who opposed the nazis in the years before the holocaust.
  - DaniloDias 6y ago
    ??
- pravus 6y ago
  At least from my perspective this has been an ongoing problem for many years now and I would refer you to Godwin's law. There is this weird sort of mystique about Hitler and the Nazi Party that keep people entranced that it was "pure evil" rather than a decade-plus political process taking place in a very unique time of history with many other actors in play. You can't use any sort of "slippery slope" argument because of course those don't exist. The fact that you can trace elements of both WW-I and WW-II to at least the mid-1800s in terms of holistic world upheaval doesn't even get mentioned. There doesn't seem to be many students of history these days. Instead what we get is almost fantasy horror and when you try to make serious political arguments they are just dismissed. I mean, it can't happen here because unicorns don't exist either. I also find it troubling that many people have no appreciation for Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao in light of the millions lives that were destroyed after WW-II. Some very horrific acts occurred in the 20th century and debating rather than dismissing these issues seems like not only a good idea, but probably essential if peace and humanity are truly desired.

Kattywumpus 6y ago

I want to thank you for linking to the articles, even if you disagree with him. Calling an observation "offensive" and punishing someone for making it, is not refuting it, or even addressing it. America's tradition has always valued free speech and open debate, and it seems many people on the left no longer value these things. I do find that chilling.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Simon_says 6y ago

I read that article, and it doesn't seem like it's beyond the pale of civil discourse to me. Sounds like cancel culture run amok, which you are now a part of.

finnthehuman 6y ago

I see dozens of more-hyperbolic comparisons of political actions to Nazi Germany than this every week. Made by higher-profile people too. I’m surprised this one even rates on anyone’s radar.

throwawaysea 6y ago

Cliff Mass is 100% right on comparing BLM protesters to brownshirts, and he was also specific in noting that he isn't describing all protesters. The relevant quote from his blog post is "Seattle's brownshirts have hidden within protest groups". Those who say this is an inappropriate comparison are gaslighting, as these criminals have a consistent track record of engaging in violence, intimidation, threats, and more. Let's take a look at what this subset of BLM protesters have done in the Seattle area. They: 1. Harassed the mayor at her house, and issuing death threats like "guillotine Jenny" and writing misogynist messages like "Resign bitch" on her house and the road in front, and used similar tactics at the houses of council members: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/native-leaders-organizations-decry-intimidation-outside-home-of-seattle-city-councils-juarez/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/native-le... 2. Repeatedly blocking bridges and highways, snarling traffic for thousands of drivers, pedestrians, and bicyclists even after their irresponsible highway blockades led to a death: https://www.kuow.org/stories/updates-protests-for-racial-justice-in-the-seattle-a/ https://www.kuow.org/stories/updates-protests-for-racial-jus... 3. Showed up at our black female police chief's neighborhood, started documenting who lives where, noted license plates, and interrogated neighborhood kids for information: https://lynnwoodtimes.com/2020/08/02/hundreds-of-blm-supporters-storm-snohomish-county-neighborhood-to-protest-at-seattle-police-chief-carmen-bests-home/ https://lynnwoodtimes.com/2020/08/02/hundreds-of-blm-support... 4. Even showed up at the houses of council members who agreed to their demands, to intimidate them and make sure they wouldn't change their stance: https://westseattleblog.com/2020/08/protest-evening-march-in-west-seattle-for-5th-time-in-11-nights/ https://westseattleblog.com/2020/08/protest-evening-march-in... 5. Used a homeless camp as a staging area for riots, storing weapons there: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/seattle-police-recover-weapons-homemade-spike-strips-and-mortar-from-cal-anderson-park/ar-BB18DNYe https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/seattle-police-recover-wea... 6. Showed up at white people's homes, demanding that residents leave the neighborhood: https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/08/14/blm-marches-through-seattle-residential-area-demand-white-people-surrender-their-homes-959988 https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/08/14/blm-marches-through-... 7. Made lists of businesses to destroy: https://thepostmillennial.com/antifa-rioters-made-lists-of-seattle-businesses-to-destroy https://thepostmillennial.com/antifa-rioters-made-lists-of-s... How can you not see the valid comparison to brownshirts here? Damaging property, holding drivers hostage on the highway, obstructing others from accessing public infrastructure, committing arson, issuing death threats, and so forth all match the description perfectly. Remember, terrorism is defined as "the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes." (https://www.dictionary.com/browse/terrorism https://www.dictionary.com/browse/terrorism). The actions of local BLM activists and Antifa rioters completely fits this description. And given the evidence is so clear, this attempt to cancel Cliff Mass, a distinguished Professor of Atmospheric Science at a major research university, is simply progressive cancel culture run amok.