8 ms·

>Another important thing is that I take long breaks (several weeks) whenever I feel I need to — which is probably harder to do if I’m a full time employee at a

>Another important thing is that I take long breaks (several weeks) whenever I feel I need to — which is probably harder to do if I’m a full time employee at a company. A "Patreon-funded full-time job position" and the ability to take weeks off at a time? What an amazing career path Evan has taken. He sounds so passionate about Vue and he is fully funded to be able to do it. And what a good project to fund, always moving forward but at the same time pushing for the features that users want.

langitbiru 6y ago
And the money is not bad. https://blog.patreon.com/vue-js-creator-evan-you https://blog.patreon.com/vue-js-creator-evan-you
- cwxm 6y ago
  with his level of fame, he would easily make that at one of the top tech firms though.
  - steve_adams_86 6y ago
    I agree. I earn something comparable and I'd say I provide far, far less value to any community or even my employer.
  - fractionalhare 6y ago
    Yes. He would more than double that by joining at the E5/L5 level at Facebook/Google, which he's almost certainly qualified to do. But given the success of Vue.js and his status in the JS community, he'd probably be a marquee hire at the E6/L6 level. However he would be sacrificing a lot of autonomy to do so, because Vue.js would effectively be developed under the same corporate stewardship model as React and Angular. He doesn't make as much money as he could given his accomplishments, but he maintains broad control and ownership over his work. Likewise his Patreon sponsorships can increase over time as Vue.js increases in adoption. And if he wants more income, he can take on lucrative consulting contracts for Vue.js deployments with large tech companies. A few of those per year would likely meet or exceed everything he's bringing in through Patreon.
    - quicklime 6y ago
      So that’s his Patreon earnings. Looks like he’s also making money from OpenCollective, and if I’m adding it all up correctly it’s about what an E6/L6 at Facebook/Google would make?
      - azemetre 6y ago
        https://www.levels.fyi/ https://www.levels.fyi/ is a good site to check ranges at a variety of companies (not affiliated, just a fan). E6 at G/FB can range between $450-$600k.
        quicklime 6y ago
        Yes, I know :). Did you try add all the numbers up on opencollective?
    - wolco 6y ago
      He would probably double that by selling t-shirts.
- agumonkey 6y ago
  Well worth it IMO, vue is a very well made tiny thing that is very good at making intermediate project with fun.
- matthoiland 6y ago
  >$16,000/mo, enough to cover his salary along with his new hire That's $192k, pre-tax, between two people and likely infrastructure and tooling costs. Most developers of You's skill earn nearly double that at FAANG companies.
  - rk06 6y ago
    Well, those developers also live in silicon valley which is an expensive location. I think the money is decent and Evan must also consider it to be decent enough to get a person working full time with it. And that's what matters
  - kyawzazaw 6y ago
    DO we know where he lives? Patreon is not his sole revenue source.
    - wetmore 6y ago
      New Jersey iirc.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
dsco 6y ago
Isn't running a project more about the outcome than putting in as much time as possible? Also taking long breaks could potentially mean being AFK but still obsessing about next steps in the project. Maybe you're imagining him being on a tropical island drinking mochito's during the long breaks?
- ZephyrBlu 6y ago
  > Isn't running a project more about the outcome than putting in as much time as possible? As far as I understand, he's not really running a company though. It's mostly a solo endeavor. So it seems like in this case time put in ~ outcome.
  - pieterr 6y ago
    > It’s mostly a solo endeavor. The team is more than just Evan. [1] https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/team.html https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/team.html
    - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
      Are these people working on Vue full time though?
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
It sounds lucrative and leisurely, sure, but it's not a career path I'd personally be interested in, because (caveat: I don't know the guy, I'm not involved in Vue, etc; generalizations ahead) he's very much a community manager, possibly moreso than a developer. He's got huge responsibilities and accountability, whereas I prefer to be (proverbially) holed up in a basement with my work laid out for me. I mean I basically have online social anxiety in that I don't tend to go read my old comments and possible responses to it. I rant without standing for and defending what I say. If you run a project like Vue, you can't avoid things like that.
- mesaframe 6y ago
  I experience similar anxiety. For too long I kept my profiles (GitHub/Twitter/..) pseudo-anonymous. So that If I mess up somewhere I don't have to face the consequences after I shut that account down. This is primarily due to social anxiety rather than having any malicious intent. Even my HN account is anonymous. (That I think is holding me back too.) I cannot imagine myself working like Evan.
  - agumonkey 6y ago
    I think it's a side effect of internet. By working too much in isolation we fear approval or rejection ? It frees us from following others opinions or a group direction but we also lose track of something (I'm blurry I have no precise word for this)
    - sethetter 6y ago
      Accountability! It can be scary, but it's also important and a driver for positive change. I deal with all of these things as well, but have pretty much decided to not go the anonymous route, because I would rather try to build that confidence in myself and embrace the accountability that comes along with it. That said, I still don't comment or publish much online out of this same anxiety. /shrug. It's a work in progress :)
      - 6y ago
Kiro 6y ago
For me it's the opposite. I dread to see a Patron cancel so I can't take any time off since I'm imagining any "slacking" will lead to cancellations. It really feels like a race against the clock with every Patron is on a thin line.
rk06 6y ago
It sounds pretty good until you realise that it is the peak of open source full time job. And survivorship bias is taking place here. Evan took a huge leap of faith when he quit his job for working full time on vue. I am happy that it has worked out well for him. But it does not mean this path will work for other open source developers, of course they can still get corporate backing(node.js) or paid to work on it (react/angular) or make a business offering around it (laravel/tailwind) This road is very less travelled.
- wolco 6y ago
  This is new and exciting but we must understand the use case. For solo developers on projects with a huge amount of github stars this might make sense. It enables you to work on the project full time. The tailwind project model seems like it would pay better. The profit amount might make for sense for the pretty popular project vs the extremely popular project. It's a compromise because you stop working on the core project and start building these additional businesses that take time/effort away the project. Corporate backing would make sense but enterprise has picked react. Vue lives because it's a great framework that is easily assessible not because it started as a corporate sponsored project with a popularity boost buildin.

langitbiru 6y ago

And the money is not bad. https://blog.patreon.com/vue-js-creator-evan-you https://blog.patreon.com/vue-js-creator-evan-you

cwxm 6y ago
with his level of fame, he would easily make that at one of the top tech firms though.
- steve_adams_86 6y ago
  I agree. I earn something comparable and I'd say I provide far, far less value to any community or even my employer.
- fractionalhare 6y ago
  Yes. He would more than double that by joining at the E5/L5 level at Facebook/Google, which he's almost certainly qualified to do. But given the success of Vue.js and his status in the JS community, he'd probably be a marquee hire at the E6/L6 level. However he would be sacrificing a lot of autonomy to do so, because Vue.js would effectively be developed under the same corporate stewardship model as React and Angular. He doesn't make as much money as he could given his accomplishments, but he maintains broad control and ownership over his work. Likewise his Patreon sponsorships can increase over time as Vue.js increases in adoption. And if he wants more income, he can take on lucrative consulting contracts for Vue.js deployments with large tech companies. A few of those per year would likely meet or exceed everything he's bringing in through Patreon.
  - quicklime 6y ago
    So that’s his Patreon earnings. Looks like he’s also making money from OpenCollective, and if I’m adding it all up correctly it’s about what an E6/L6 at Facebook/Google would make?
    - azemetre 6y ago
      https://www.levels.fyi/ https://www.levels.fyi/ is a good site to check ranges at a variety of companies (not affiliated, just a fan). E6 at G/FB can range between $450-$600k.
      - quicklime 6y ago
        Yes, I know :). Did you try add all the numbers up on opencollective?
  - wolco 6y ago
    He would probably double that by selling t-shirts.
agumonkey 6y ago
Well worth it IMO, vue is a very well made tiny thing that is very good at making intermediate project with fun.
matthoiland 6y ago
>$16,000/mo, enough to cover his salary along with his new hire That's $192k, pre-tax, between two people and likely infrastructure and tooling costs. Most developers of You's skill earn nearly double that at FAANG companies.
- rk06 6y ago
  Well, those developers also live in silicon valley which is an expensive location. I think the money is decent and Evan must also consider it to be decent enough to get a person working full time with it. And that's what matters
- kyawzazaw 6y ago
  DO we know where he lives? Patreon is not his sole revenue source.
  - wetmore 6y ago
    New Jersey iirc.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

dsco 6y ago

Isn't running a project more about the outcome than putting in as much time as possible? Also taking long breaks could potentially mean being AFK but still obsessing about next steps in the project. Maybe you're imagining him being on a tropical island drinking mochito's during the long breaks?

ZephyrBlu 6y ago
> Isn't running a project more about the outcome than putting in as much time as possible? As far as I understand, he's not really running a company though. It's mostly a solo endeavor. So it seems like in this case time put in ~ outcome.
- pieterr 6y ago
  > It’s mostly a solo endeavor. The team is more than just Evan. [1] https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/team.html https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/team.html
  - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
    Are these people working on Vue full time though?

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

It sounds lucrative and leisurely, sure, but it's not a career path I'd personally be interested in, because (caveat: I don't know the guy, I'm not involved in Vue, etc; generalizations ahead) he's very much a community manager, possibly moreso than a developer. He's got huge responsibilities and accountability, whereas I prefer to be (proverbially) holed up in a basement with my work laid out for me. I mean I basically have online social anxiety in that I don't tend to go read my old comments and possible responses to it. I rant without standing for and defending what I say. If you run a project like Vue, you can't avoid things like that.

mesaframe 6y ago
I experience similar anxiety. For too long I kept my profiles (GitHub/Twitter/..) pseudo-anonymous. So that If I mess up somewhere I don't have to face the consequences after I shut that account down. This is primarily due to social anxiety rather than having any malicious intent. Even my HN account is anonymous. (That I think is holding me back too.) I cannot imagine myself working like Evan.
- agumonkey 6y ago
  I think it's a side effect of internet. By working too much in isolation we fear approval or rejection ? It frees us from following others opinions or a group direction but we also lose track of something (I'm blurry I have no precise word for this)
  - sethetter 6y ago
    Accountability! It can be scary, but it's also important and a driver for positive change. I deal with all of these things as well, but have pretty much decided to not go the anonymous route, because I would rather try to build that confidence in myself and embrace the accountability that comes along with it. That said, I still don't comment or publish much online out of this same anxiety. /shrug. It's a work in progress :)
    - 6y ago

Kiro 6y ago

For me it's the opposite. I dread to see a Patron cancel so I can't take any time off since I'm imagining any "slacking" will lead to cancellations. It really feels like a race against the clock with every Patron is on a thin line.

rk06 6y ago

It sounds pretty good until you realise that it is the peak of open source full time job. And survivorship bias is taking place here. Evan took a huge leap of faith when he quit his job for working full time on vue. I am happy that it has worked out well for him. But it does not mean this path will work for other open source developers, of course they can still get corporate backing(node.js) or paid to work on it (react/angular) or make a business offering around it (laravel/tailwind) This road is very less travelled.

wolco 6y ago
This is new and exciting but we must understand the use case. For solo developers on projects with a huge amount of github stars this might make sense. It enables you to work on the project full time. The tailwind project model seems like it would pay better. The profit amount might make for sense for the pretty popular project vs the extremely popular project. It's a compromise because you stop working on the core project and start building these additional businesses that take time/effort away the project. Corporate backing would make sense but enterprise has picked react. Vue lives because it's a great framework that is easily assessible not because it started as a corporate sponsored project with a popularity boost buildin.