7 ms·

Nothing really. We can go on creating a great country for the Israeli Arabs, Jews, Druze and Christians. This conflict is slowly ending.

• Udik 6y ago
  > I hope Israel would take as many Palestinians as possible. Without turning itself into one. > We can go on creating a great country for the Israeli Arabs, Jews, Druze and Christians So you're arguing for the one-state solution. You do realize that that means the end of the nature of Israel as a "Jewish state" (definition that was just sanctioned in the law), and that a democracy in which half of the citizens are Palestinians is going to fundamentally change the nature of the country?
  • guykdm 6y ago
    The Palestinians (which do not act as a nation and never did, their loyalty is to their tribe) have autonomy, and they should be given as much autonomy as possible (without bad security implications).
    • Udik 6y ago
      > The Palestinians ... have autonomy Wait, are you saying that they would not vote for Israel's government?
      • guykdm 6y ago
        No, democracies don't work well when different groups in the country hate each other. Palestinians have their own autonomy, where they would manage it by their own standards.
        • Udik 6y ago
          > Palestinians have their own autonomy, where they would manage it by their own standards And how would this "autonomy" be different from full sovereignty? And in case it were different, to which superior body would this autonomy be subjected? And who would have democratic control of this superior body? Because if the answers are respectively 'different', 'Israel' and '(current) Israeli citizens', then what you're talking about is proper, institutionalized apartheid.
          • guykdm 6y ago
            They already have autonomy. They might would like it to be better armed, and they are free to accept the deal of the century proposal, but they won't get more.
            • Udik 6y ago
              This doesn't answer my questions.
              • guykdm 6y ago
                I don't know how you define sovereignty, as distinct from autonomy. The guideline for me (and I believe this is also the way the conflict will end in real life) is the most autonomy possible, without any security risks to Israel. It's not far from the situation now.
                • Udik 6y ago
                  > The guideline for me ... It's not far from the situation now. The situation now is that vast parts of the West Bank are ultimately under Israel's control- Israel can decide to appropriate portions of land and build on it, build infrastructure for the exclusive use of settlers, and deploys the army to protect Israeli squatters from Palestinians trying to retrieve their possessions. Of course the settlers are allowed to vote for Israel's government, while the non-Israeli Palestinians living all around them have no rights and cannot vote for the government that has these powers on their land. This is de facto apartheid. You're saying that this is "not far from" the ideal solution for you, and you'd be happy to turn it into apartheid de jure?
                  • guykdm 6y ago
                    There are lots of Israelis living in the west bank, they aren't going anywhere nor is their presence harmful to anyone (nationalist feelings aside). Palastinians would vote to the PA, and they will decide their own taxes and laws, ext (as is the case now). The Israelis will vote to the Knesset. Besides the lack of arms to the PA, this isn't too far from where it is now. This is of course not apartheid, just a reasonable way to live side by side.