5 ms·

What Does Trump Have Against TikTok?

24 points by homami 6y ago

villgax 6y ago
Having a fool at the helm often yields such outcomes.
raverbashing 6y ago
Or maybe it believes that those who don't believe in a global internet shouldn't benefit from it. The first thing China did was putting up the Great Firewall. Reciprocity is overdue and important.
- loraa 6y ago
  Stop making sense. These young lads with Trump Derangement Syndrome might try to smash your windows.
forgot_user1234 6y ago
Or US believes in trade reciprocity
makomk 6y ago
Forget TikTok and the US for a moment - just given the actions of China, the EU, and India, is there even such a thing as a global internet anymore?
- PedroBatista 6y ago
  Why didn't you start with the actions of the US and US companies? Did you forgot about the many FB and Google scandals over the years? or you just don't care because they are your team? The Internet never was "Global", it was always soft and sometimes hard controlled by the US. Now that other countries are applying the same recipe and "winning" all of a sudden that's a problem. And it really is a problem, but it was a problem since the very beginning of the Internet, or do I need to mention the RSA backdoor, the Windows kernel backdoor, the amazing health of the ECHELON project even decades after the cold war ended?
  - meragrin_ 6y ago
    Aside from the recent targeting of Chinese companies, what policies has the US put into place which specifically targets internet companies only and makes it difficult for foreign companies to have US customers?
arbuge 6y ago
No. Banning TikTok at most suggests that the current US administration no longer believes in a global internet. That administration might be out of office as soon as January 2021. Edit: Comment submitted before title was changed. Title was originally: "Banning TikTok suggests that the US no longer believes in a global internet."
- chrisan 6y ago
  Ya, let's not lump in all of the US as anti-global-internet with the orange man in the oval office's mission vs China. The US should continue to be part of the global group of countries with the idea of an open internet vs copying China's great firewall practice. I realize this is hard externally with Trump and perhaps internally with Pai but they do not represent the majority
- threeseed 6y ago
  Data protection and privacy is far more important than a global internet. And you need a country with a strong and independent judiciary and press in order for that to happen. China has neither. And people who think this is exclusive a Trump, right-wing position are seriously misguided. It's bi-partisan and will definitely continue under a Biden presidency as well.
  - pbhjpbhj 6y ago
    >strong and independent judiciary and press // Are you suggesting USA has that?
Solstinox 6y ago
Is it true that we (not HN, but US as a geopolitical entity) have ever believed in a global internet? Seems naive. We’ve believed in the American internet purveyed by America to the world. Countries like China deployed their firewalls precisely because it is largely an American internet out there. Banning TikTok as delivered by a frenemy that sees us as its key rival for the next two hundred years makes more sense with that context.
loraa 6y ago
Doesn't China ban a bunch of US services?
madballster 6y ago
Not sure if we should extrapolate from one White House administration as to what the US believes.
- threeseed 6y ago
  > During the Democrat presidential primaries, Biden called China’s President Xi Jinping, who is also the general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), a “thug” for having “a million Uyghurs in ‘reconstruction camps’ [sic] meaning concentration camps. https://thediplomat.com/2020/07/team-bidens-policies-on-china-and-taiwan/ https://thediplomat.com/2020/07/team-bidens-policies-on-chin... Whoever the next President is will not be soft on China.
Wolfenstein98k 6y ago
It's got nothing to do with "global internet", it's about a totalitarian surveillance dragnet capturing every bit of data imaginable about American children. Tik Tok is unique in the granularity and sheer scope of what it captures, and it is stored on Chinese servers that are legally compelled to make any and all data available to the CCP with no oversight or warrants or anything of the sort.
- close04 6y ago
  > a totalitarian surveillance dragnet capturing every bit of data imaginable about American children Are non-Chinese surveillance dragnets (Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, etc.) capturing every bit of data imaginable about every nationality's children or adults more palatable? Just like China, the US is doing whatever it can to maintain its superpower status, and its allies and enemies in check. And it's obvious these days that the US is willing to use the exact same measures that they criticized in the past when they were employed only by China.
  - threeseed 6y ago
    You can file a freedom of information request or launch a lawsuit to contest a policy. You can be a whistleblower and leak illegal or immoral policies to media organisations. Or as an individual you can push journalists to investigate. Or launch an online campaign to draw attention to a particular issue. You can't do any of that in China.
    - pinkfoot 6y ago
      Can your company legally tell me how many FISA warrants and NSL letters they received in my FOIA request? Of course not.
      - Wolfenstein98k 6y ago
        Yes, there are few issues outside the typical oversight the West prides itself on. Note that opponents of it are free to criticise it, whereas you're committing a crime RIGHT NOW - wherever you are - under Chinese law if you so much as promote democracy is Hong Kong or China. You can be jailed without trial (as we know it) for this transgression. There is no comparison. Whataboutism from Useful Idiots abounds.
CyberRabbi 6y ago
Belief has nothing to do with it. This is a response to geopolitical realities. There is no virtue in believing in a fiction, even if it sounds nice. Edit: this post was originally titled “Banning TikTok suggests that the US no longer believes in a global internet” and that is still the main idea of the article
cletus 6y ago
It should be clear to all but the most biased that: 1. Chinese companies are extensions of the state. This is not true to the same degree for US or European companies; and 2. China deliberately restricts access to the Chinese market so no foreign company will "win" there. It will always be a Chinese company. This is why companies kowtowing the China is so pointless. Trade is about reciprocity. Separation from the state is a national security issue. China is not playing by the same rules as everyone else is. The only shocking thing about this is that it's taken what is otherwise the worst president in America's history (and someone who, with his family, should probably all be in jail for various reasons) to demand reciprocity and to point out the obvious. Yet the carrot of the Chinese market remains for Western companies and those companies have pressured (if not outright bought) their governments to play along in a completely rigged game they cannot win.
- spanhandler 6y ago
  This is pretty much exactly my take on this, down to the assessment that shaking up Chinese trade policy is just about the only halfway sensible thing Trump has done. Are we crazy or has most of the rest of HN somehow missing the point of all this? The discussions about this here have been perplexing.
  - Wolfenstein98k 6y ago
    Most people still fall for the line that Trump only rags on China because he's racist, and think that China's govt is basically the same as other govts.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
unangst 6y ago
Trump’s fallen for one of the two classic blunders! The first being never put self above the American people but only slightly lesser known: never go in against the TikTok hive mind when RE-ELECTION is on the line!
- loopz 6y ago
  Maybe his ML strategists see a way without winning the election?
codyswann 6y ago
TikTok trolled his Tulsa rally
Simulacra 6y ago
I disagree with the authors conclusions. All Chinese companies are owned by the Chinese government. China is a horrible regime that murders it's own people, not to mention half the nation is starving while the Politburo lives in fancy houses chauffeured in fancy cars. It is not a great leap to conclude that a nation like that which owns a very popular social media app would not attempt to use it for subversive means.

24 points by homami 6y ago

Having a fool at the helm often yields such outcomes.

Or maybe it believes that those who don't believe in a global internet shouldn't benefit from it. The first thing China did was putting up the Great Firewall. Reciprocity is overdue and important.

loraa 6y ago
Stop making sense. These young lads with Trump Derangement Syndrome might try to smash your windows.

forgot_user1234 6y ago

Or US believes in trade reciprocity

makomk 6y ago

Forget TikTok and the US for a moment - just given the actions of China, the EU, and India, is there even such a thing as a global internet anymore?

PedroBatista 6y ago
Why didn't you start with the actions of the US and US companies? Did you forgot about the many FB and Google scandals over the years? or you just don't care because they are your team? The Internet never was "Global", it was always soft and sometimes hard controlled by the US. Now that other countries are applying the same recipe and "winning" all of a sudden that's a problem. And it really is a problem, but it was a problem since the very beginning of the Internet, or do I need to mention the RSA backdoor, the Windows kernel backdoor, the amazing health of the ECHELON project even decades after the cold war ended?
- meragrin_ 6y ago
  Aside from the recent targeting of Chinese companies, what policies has the US put into place which specifically targets internet companies only and makes it difficult for foreign companies to have US customers?

arbuge 6y ago

No. Banning TikTok at most suggests that the current US administration no longer believes in a global internet. That administration might be out of office as soon as January 2021. Edit: Comment submitted before title was changed. Title was originally: "Banning TikTok suggests that the US no longer believes in a global internet."

chrisan 6y ago
Ya, let's not lump in all of the US as anti-global-internet with the orange man in the oval office's mission vs China. The US should continue to be part of the global group of countries with the idea of an open internet vs copying China's great firewall practice. I realize this is hard externally with Trump and perhaps internally with Pai but they do not represent the majority
threeseed 6y ago
Data protection and privacy is far more important than a global internet. And you need a country with a strong and independent judiciary and press in order for that to happen. China has neither. And people who think this is exclusive a Trump, right-wing position are seriously misguided. It's bi-partisan and will definitely continue under a Biden presidency as well.
- pbhjpbhj 6y ago
  >strong and independent judiciary and press // Are you suggesting USA has that?

Solstinox 6y ago

Is it true that we (not HN, but US as a geopolitical entity) have ever believed in a global internet? Seems naive. We’ve believed in the American internet purveyed by America to the world. Countries like China deployed their firewalls precisely because it is largely an American internet out there. Banning TikTok as delivered by a frenemy that sees us as its key rival for the next two hundred years makes more sense with that context.

loraa 6y ago

Doesn't China ban a bunch of US services?

madballster 6y ago

Not sure if we should extrapolate from one White House administration as to what the US believes.

threeseed 6y ago
> During the Democrat presidential primaries, Biden called China’s President Xi Jinping, who is also the general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), a “thug” for having “a million Uyghurs in ‘reconstruction camps’ [sic] meaning concentration camps. https://thediplomat.com/2020/07/team-bidens-policies-on-china-and-taiwan/ https://thediplomat.com/2020/07/team-bidens-policies-on-chin... Whoever the next President is will not be soft on China.

Wolfenstein98k 6y ago

It's got nothing to do with "global internet", it's about a totalitarian surveillance dragnet capturing every bit of data imaginable about American children. Tik Tok is unique in the granularity and sheer scope of what it captures, and it is stored on Chinese servers that are legally compelled to make any and all data available to the CCP with no oversight or warrants or anything of the sort.

close04 6y ago
> a totalitarian surveillance dragnet capturing every bit of data imaginable about American children Are non-Chinese surveillance dragnets (Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, etc.) capturing every bit of data imaginable about every nationality's children or adults more palatable? Just like China, the US is doing whatever it can to maintain its superpower status, and its allies and enemies in check. And it's obvious these days that the US is willing to use the exact same measures that they criticized in the past when they were employed only by China.
- threeseed 6y ago
  You can file a freedom of information request or launch a lawsuit to contest a policy. You can be a whistleblower and leak illegal or immoral policies to media organisations. Or as an individual you can push journalists to investigate. Or launch an online campaign to draw attention to a particular issue. You can't do any of that in China.
  - pinkfoot 6y ago
    Can your company legally tell me how many FISA warrants and NSL letters they received in my FOIA request? Of course not.
    - Wolfenstein98k 6y ago
      Yes, there are few issues outside the typical oversight the West prides itself on. Note that opponents of it are free to criticise it, whereas you're committing a crime RIGHT NOW - wherever you are - under Chinese law if you so much as promote democracy is Hong Kong or China. You can be jailed without trial (as we know it) for this transgression. There is no comparison. Whataboutism from Useful Idiots abounds.

CyberRabbi 6y ago

Belief has nothing to do with it. This is a response to geopolitical realities. There is no virtue in believing in a fiction, even if it sounds nice. Edit: this post was originally titled “Banning TikTok suggests that the US no longer believes in a global internet” and that is still the main idea of the article

cletus 6y ago

It should be clear to all but the most biased that: 1. Chinese companies are extensions of the state. This is not true to the same degree for US or European companies; and 2. China deliberately restricts access to the Chinese market so no foreign company will "win" there. It will always be a Chinese company. This is why companies kowtowing the China is so pointless. Trade is about reciprocity. Separation from the state is a national security issue. China is not playing by the same rules as everyone else is. The only shocking thing about this is that it's taken what is otherwise the worst president in America's history (and someone who, with his family, should probably all be in jail for various reasons) to demand reciprocity and to point out the obvious. Yet the carrot of the Chinese market remains for Western companies and those companies have pressured (if not outright bought) their governments to play along in a completely rigged game they cannot win.

spanhandler 6y ago
This is pretty much exactly my take on this, down to the assessment that shaking up Chinese trade policy is just about the only halfway sensible thing Trump has done. Are we crazy or has most of the rest of HN somehow missing the point of all this? The discussions about this here have been perplexing.
- Wolfenstein98k 6y ago
  Most people still fall for the line that Trump only rags on China because he's racist, and think that China's govt is basically the same as other govts.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

unangst 6y ago

Trump’s fallen for one of the two classic blunders! The first being never put self above the American people but only slightly lesser known: never go in against the TikTok hive mind when RE-ELECTION is on the line!

loopz 6y ago
Maybe his ML strategists see a way without winning the election?

codyswann 6y ago

TikTok trolled his Tulsa rally

Simulacra 6y ago

I disagree with the authors conclusions. All Chinese companies are owned by the Chinese government. China is a horrible regime that murders it's own people, not to mention half the nation is starving while the Politburo lives in fancy houses chauffeured in fancy cars. It is not a great leap to conclude that a nation like that which owns a very popular social media app would not attempt to use it for subversive means.