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I think the lack of geographical proximity to Jio, didn't give Mr. Ben the complete picture of the forces at play. The story of Jio (Reliance) cannot be told w

I think the lack of geographical proximity to Jio, didn't give Mr. Ben the complete picture of the forces at play. The story of Jio (Reliance) cannot be told without the political-corruption-nexus in India, by investing in Jio - Facebook, Google, Qualcomm etc. not only acquire stake in 'The Enterprise' of India but also guaranteed of political favors apart from access to data from millions of Indians through a single unregulated channel. Let me give you an example of the political reach companies like Adani, Reliance etc. which are in nexus with current ruling party - BJP have in India. I have personally heard from Ex. High Court judges that when they were presiding over cases involving Adani, Reliance they were approached by officials from those companies and were asked "Would you like to be a Governor after your retirement?". As there is practically no real opposition party left in India, BJP will rule India for for decades to come as it slips into total authoritarianism(like CCP). So being on good terms with Jio/Reliance aka BJP, guarantee these companies unfettered access to Indians and especially their data. I'm sure BJP already has the necessary infrastructure in place for analyzing data from Jio customers, now with Facebook, WhatsApp, Google you can see where this is going. As any non-alignment with Jio/Reliance/BJP means 'the end' as we are seeing with even Govt. institutions like BSNL(Telecom), HAL (Aircraft Manufacturer) etc. Any business in India or from abroad now should appease Jio if they have to survive.

newyankee 6y ago
The auction irregularity conducted by the alleged Shell company which was bought by JIO and highlighted by CAG was done in 2010. This was the era of UPA2. Stop bashing BJP with over exaggerations. It is pretty well understood that Ambani is close to all political parties in India.
- castevictim 6y ago
  Proportion and depth matters. >The auction irregularity conducted by the alleged Shell company which was bought by JIO and highlighted by CAG was done in 2010 CAG highlighted irregularity with so many other things with the auction and top ruling party-alliance members were booked for scam, why didn't BJP take further action on this report then? Meanwhile, Airtel/Vodafone (Competitors to Jio) have been asked to pay $ 12.3 Billion AGR dues after supreme court order. This wouldn't have happened if the ruling BJP Govt. had respected the order of TDSAT (Telecom Disputes Settlement and Appellate Tribunal) which stayed the payments in 2015 in favor of said telecom companies. This kind of blatant favoritism for Reliance, Adani etc. leading to total destruct ion of competitive business environment in India did not happen before.
harsh3195 6y ago
For decades? I think that's a gloomy thought. But these companies do have lobbies in all political parties. So whose in power won't make much of a difference.
- castevictim 6y ago
  >So whose in power won't make much of a difference. It does, depending upon whether a party has a moral ceiling. Whether there's something which they wouldn't do. Unfortunately, there is no such limit for a party which does not believe in democracy. Why has India dropped in democracy ratings drastically?[0] What's worrying is, now that BJP has taught other parties how India's democracy can be broken, even if by some miracle some other party comes to power, it will do the same. So, I will agree with you then. But, that's not going to happen as BJP has ensured that no elections in future would be fair[1]. [0]https://www.oneindia.com/india/democracy-index-2019-india-slips-10-points-to-51st-rank-due-to-erosion-of-civil-liberties-3019542.html https://www.oneindia.com/india/democracy-index-2019-india-sl... [1]https://www.newindianexpress.com/business/2020/jul/15/asian-development-bank-appoints-election-commissioner-ashok-lavasa-as-new-vice-president-2170113.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/business/2020/jul/15/asian-....
  - known 6y ago
    "Who's right doesn't matter, who has the power does" --Thucydides (471 BC - 400 BC)
  - harsh3195 6y ago
    I mean, out of the two parties who can be in power in the near future, one has been involved in the 2G spectrum scam and the other is, well, bjp. The moral ceiling seems super high for both.
  - sbmthakur 6y ago
    > But, that's not going to happen as BJP has ensured that no elections in future would be fair[1]. Are you implying that they lost key states like Maharashtra on purpose?
unmole 6y ago
> nexus with current ruling party - BJP It's not like things were too different before. Mukesh Ambani supposedly referred to the INC as Apni Dukaan. Both the Congress and BJP are more than happy to appease Motabhai. Source: https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/mukesh-said-haan-yaar-ranjan-congress-to-ab-apni-dukaan-hai/268088 https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/mukesh-said-haan...
- castevictim 6y ago
  Yes, but the systematic dismantling of the independent agencies did not happen during congress period even though there were always bootlickers around in every govt. Remember Auditor General of India, CBI(FBI equivalent) discovered and booked Congress-alliance party members for scam while they were ruling? Now, CBI has become a laughing stock is being used as lap dogs for ruling party to get parties into alliance with them.
  - sseth 6y ago
    During congress rule, CBI was referred to as a "caged parrot". The CBI did not act unless forced by the Supreme Court. The CAG is a very different body - it is much more independent of government, and did raise issues around 2G spectrum allocation and many other areas during Congress time. I mean, the UPA had a minister running an entire TV station out of BSNL lines running to his home, so really it was pretty blatant and hard not to catch. We should not confuse this type of corruption with doing favors to business which does not show up in government books, and is not easy for CAG to catch.
    - gigatexal 6y ago
      To be fair I can’t think of a congress party member that was wanted for crimes against humanity on an international scale until he became PM and all was forgiven. [1] [1](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-30826044 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-30826044)
      - castevictim 6y ago
known 6y ago
What else can we expect when 50% Ministers in Modi Cabinet are Brahmin and 80% Judges in Courts are Brahmin; And Brahmin are just 3% in India; https://archive.is/ojjbF https://archive.is/ojjbF
- castevictim 6y ago
  Add to that, judicial system which is statistically proven to be Brahminical[0]. But in jail two-third of prisoners are Dalits, tribals and from Other Backward Classes (OBCs), 19% are Muslims[1]. [0]https://www.huffingtonpost.in/suraj-yengde/theres-a-caste-bias-in-our-prison-system-and-we-need-to-talk-ab_a_21662007 https://www.huffingtonpost.in/suraj-yengde/theres-a-caste-bi... [1]https://www.deccanherald.com/national/north-and-central/majority-prisoners-in-indian-jails-are-dalits-muslims-790478.html https://www.deccanherald.com/national/north-and-central/majo...
  - known 6y ago
    And this is why in 1932 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award Ambedkar demanded a Separate Country (not Reservations) where Brahmin/Bania/Kshatriya can live on a Visa;
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      I think that is probably the most poorly written Wikipedia article I have read in a while.
KorematsuFred 6y ago
I see that claim being thrown around a lot but it does not have much merit IMO. India is very corrupt but then all companies know that already. There is nothing special that Reliance can offer that Vodafone or Airtel wont. In fact during the Congress government India saw the largest scam ever perpetuated by non-Reliance players. Reliance is also not a winner always. Reliance industries has burned its hands on retail, 2G services, agriculture, social media and many other business. People assign too much competence of current BJP government. Had they been half as competent as their opponents claim we would have seen a far different India.
- castevictim 6y ago
  >People assign too much competence of current BJP government. That is mistaking its competence to get votes, retain power to competence in governance, the latter should have been very clear when it demonetized the currency plunging millions into poverty and economic turmoil from which the India has never recovered from. We are telling BJP is criminal, racist, and fascist political party(Its parent RSS directly borrowed its ideology from Nazi) which will go to any length to get votes and be in power.
  - naruvimama 6y ago
    Fanta, Autobahn & Volkswagen are also products of the Nazis. One of the reasons Modi/BJP's opponents failed is because of the level of ridiculous accusations they level against them. An one point even staunch communists and Congress supports lost faith in their politics. I really do not understand how much people can hate the success of others. Contrast Reliance with the likes of Karunanidhi dynasty or the Gandhi dynasty, not only do these dynasts directly loot public money in the billions. They also have them stashed abroad, often in sensitive projects like Hamabanthota run by enemy states like China.
    - sassy_samurai 6y ago
      That guy castevictim is talking out of his ass. There's no truth to what he's saying. He's an anti-national Muslim.
aluksi 6y ago
While there is some resemblance of truth in your argument but to compare India's democratically elected government to CCP authoritarianism is totally absurd. There is always lobbying and influence peddling in any government in any part of the world but to pronounce something diabolical with rather tenuous anecdotal evidence is just political posturing.
- castevictim 6y ago
  >as it slips into total authoritarianism(like CCP). https://scroll.in/latest/950716/india-slips-10-spots-to-51st-rank-in-annual-democracy-index-due-to-erosion-of-civil-liberties https://scroll.in/latest/950716/india-slips-10-spots-to-51st...
blueblisters 6y ago
Ben later cited two articles written by people who are arguably closer in geographical proximity to Jio: - https://hind.substack.com/p/reliance-origins/ https://hind.substack.com/p/reliance-origins/ - https://hind.substack.com/p/from-oil-to-jio https://hind.substack.com/p/from-oil-to-jio The articles say that the Ambani family was very close to the Gandhis too. It's very hard to find a complete picture of how Reliance works - I guess they keep a very tight inner circle. Most accusations of impropriety are very vague. I don't think anyone disagrees that Reliance has tremendous political influence, but it's hard to argue that influence is greater than other Indian oligarchs (Mittals, Tatas, Birlas etc.). It's especially hard to curry favor at the expense of the other. I think the biggest reason for Reliance's relative success in cornering the telecom market is that their oil exports cashflow allows them to borrow money at much lower rates than their competitors, without worrying about hedging costs. The recent spate of investments have almost certainly been accelerated due to the drop in oil prices which has hurt their long-term debt settlement prospects tremendously. The investments gave a much needed sigh of relief for the Reliance group of companies and their bondholders.
- castevictim 6y ago
  >but it's hard to argue that influence is greater than other Indian oligarchs (Mittals, Tatas, Birlas etc.) That's naive at best. It's no secret that Billionaires have their way anywhere in the world, especially in India where inequality is enforced, armored with the caste system. So, an Entrepreneur belonging to high caste, heading a company (Infosys, TCS etc.) has far less hurdles than a lower caste individual whose even the right to education via the reservation system would be questioned at every step of their life. That said, Reliance - BJP nexus is nothing like India has seen before, so the political favors received by the Mittals, Tatas, Birlas pale in comparison. Details in other comment replies. >The investments gave a much needed sigh of relief for the Reliance group of companies and their bondholders. It was not like Jio was struggling for survival, which loads of other companies and millions of Indians do at this pandemic. Govt.'s answer to them? Get a loan from the Bank(Which none of the Banks are willing to give, even farmer gold loans have been halted in several states). Where else have we seen global competitors who are fighting neck and neck in different markets invest in a single company which hasn't proven anything else other than undercutting competitors with inferior technology? Only thing which makes Reliance-Jio different from any other companies in India are its political influence and that is why these global players are rushing to invest. That and the wretched data.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
coder_seeker 6y ago
> by investing in Jio - Facebook, Google, Qualcomm etc. not only acquire stake in 'The Enterprise' of India but also guaranteed of political favors apart from access to data from millions of Indians through a single unregulated channel. What about the rest of the dozen investor's including private equity and sovereign funds that have invested in Jio. What political favors could they possibly gain? I think these investor's are mostly looking at multiple rates of return when Jio will IPO either in India or overseas (probably US). It is just a super attractive investment opportunity that is similar to any Silicon Valley High Growth startup.
- fakedang 6y ago
  Uh, anything? Say you want to acquire property for cheap, like a port or a rezoned development. But laws get in the way. You call in Reliance and demand a favour, then they'll demand a favour from the government. It's happened very often in India to not notice. An affiliate of one of the funds in question actually owns port property in India. Private Equity has a lot to gain from this deal, and not just returns.
sbmthakur 6y ago
> Let me give you an example of the political reach companies like Adani, Reliance etc. which are in nexus with current ruling party - BJP have in India. I have personally heard from Ex. High Court judges that when they were presiding over cases involving Adani, Reliance they were approached by officials from those companies and were asked "Would you like to be a Governor after your retirement?". Corruption in judiciary is widely known and it predates Adani, Reliace etc. Nothing much can be done here as the Constitution exempts contempt of court from freedom of speech. > As there is practically no real opposition party left in India, BJP will rule India for for decades to come as it slips into total authoritarianism(like CCP). Similar predictions were made for Congress but things turned out differently. BJP has even lost some key states recently. That doesn't look like CCP in anyway.
ece 6y ago
Since gas prices are on high side and highly regulated by the government in India, I don't think Reliance ever faced pressures the way other refiners in the world did with low/high oil prices. If anything high pump prices are just another form of subsidy to Reliance as oil prices have stayed low in recent years.
sassy_samurai 6y ago
This guy is talking out of his ass. There's no truth to what he's saying. He's an anti-national Muslim.

newyankee 6y ago

The auction irregularity conducted by the alleged Shell company which was bought by JIO and highlighted by CAG was done in 2010. This was the era of UPA2. Stop bashing BJP with over exaggerations. It is pretty well understood that Ambani is close to all political parties in India.

castevictim 6y ago
Proportion and depth matters. >The auction irregularity conducted by the alleged Shell company which was bought by JIO and highlighted by CAG was done in 2010 CAG highlighted irregularity with so many other things with the auction and top ruling party-alliance members were booked for scam, why didn't BJP take further action on this report then? Meanwhile, Airtel/Vodafone (Competitors to Jio) have been asked to pay $ 12.3 Billion AGR dues after supreme court order. This wouldn't have happened if the ruling BJP Govt. had respected the order of TDSAT (Telecom Disputes Settlement and Appellate Tribunal) which stayed the payments in 2015 in favor of said telecom companies. This kind of blatant favoritism for Reliance, Adani etc. leading to total destruct ion of competitive business environment in India did not happen before.

harsh3195 6y ago

For decades? I think that's a gloomy thought. But these companies do have lobbies in all political parties. So whose in power won't make much of a difference.

castevictim 6y ago
>So whose in power won't make much of a difference. It does, depending upon whether a party has a moral ceiling. Whether there's something which they wouldn't do. Unfortunately, there is no such limit for a party which does not believe in democracy. Why has India dropped in democracy ratings drastically?[0] What's worrying is, now that BJP has taught other parties how India's democracy can be broken, even if by some miracle some other party comes to power, it will do the same. So, I will agree with you then. But, that's not going to happen as BJP has ensured that no elections in future would be fair[1]. [0]https://www.oneindia.com/india/democracy-index-2019-india-slips-10-points-to-51st-rank-due-to-erosion-of-civil-liberties-3019542.html https://www.oneindia.com/india/democracy-index-2019-india-sl... [1]https://www.newindianexpress.com/business/2020/jul/15/asian-development-bank-appoints-election-commissioner-ashok-lavasa-as-new-vice-president-2170113.html https://www.newindianexpress.com/business/2020/jul/15/asian-....
- known 6y ago
  "Who's right doesn't matter, who has the power does" --Thucydides (471 BC - 400 BC)
- harsh3195 6y ago
  I mean, out of the two parties who can be in power in the near future, one has been involved in the 2G spectrum scam and the other is, well, bjp. The moral ceiling seems super high for both.
- sbmthakur 6y ago
  > But, that's not going to happen as BJP has ensured that no elections in future would be fair[1]. Are you implying that they lost key states like Maharashtra on purpose?

unmole 6y ago

> nexus with current ruling party - BJP It's not like things were too different before. Mukesh Ambani supposedly referred to the INC as Apni Dukaan. Both the Congress and BJP are more than happy to appease Motabhai. Source: https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/mukesh-said-haan-yaar-ranjan-congress-to-ab-apni-dukaan-hai/268088 https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/mukesh-said-haan...

castevictim 6y ago
Yes, but the systematic dismantling of the independent agencies did not happen during congress period even though there were always bootlickers around in every govt. Remember Auditor General of India, CBI(FBI equivalent) discovered and booked Congress-alliance party members for scam while they were ruling? Now, CBI has become a laughing stock is being used as lap dogs for ruling party to get parties into alliance with them.
- sseth 6y ago
  During congress rule, CBI was referred to as a "caged parrot". The CBI did not act unless forced by the Supreme Court. The CAG is a very different body - it is much more independent of government, and did raise issues around 2G spectrum allocation and many other areas during Congress time. I mean, the UPA had a minister running an entire TV station out of BSNL lines running to his home, so really it was pretty blatant and hard not to catch. We should not confuse this type of corruption with doing favors to business which does not show up in government books, and is not easy for CAG to catch.
  - gigatexal 6y ago
    To be fair I can’t think of a congress party member that was wanted for crimes against humanity on an international scale until he became PM and all was forgiven. [1] [1](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-30826044 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-30826044)
    - castevictim 6y ago

known 6y ago

What else can we expect when 50% Ministers in Modi Cabinet are Brahmin and 80% Judges in Courts are Brahmin; And Brahmin are just 3% in India; https://archive.is/ojjbF https://archive.is/ojjbF

castevictim 6y ago
Add to that, judicial system which is statistically proven to be Brahminical[0]. But in jail two-third of prisoners are Dalits, tribals and from Other Backward Classes (OBCs), 19% are Muslims[1]. [0]https://www.huffingtonpost.in/suraj-yengde/theres-a-caste-bias-in-our-prison-system-and-we-need-to-talk-ab_a_21662007 https://www.huffingtonpost.in/suraj-yengde/theres-a-caste-bi... [1]https://www.deccanherald.com/national/north-and-central/majority-prisoners-in-indian-jails-are-dalits-muslims-790478.html https://www.deccanherald.com/national/north-and-central/majo...
- known 6y ago
  And this is why in 1932 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award Ambedkar demanded a Separate Country (not Reservations) where Brahmin/Bania/Kshatriya can live on a Visa;
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    I think that is probably the most poorly written Wikipedia article I have read in a while.

KorematsuFred 6y ago

I see that claim being thrown around a lot but it does not have much merit IMO. India is very corrupt but then all companies know that already. There is nothing special that Reliance can offer that Vodafone or Airtel wont. In fact during the Congress government India saw the largest scam ever perpetuated by non-Reliance players. Reliance is also not a winner always. Reliance industries has burned its hands on retail, 2G services, agriculture, social media and many other business. People assign too much competence of current BJP government. Had they been half as competent as their opponents claim we would have seen a far different India.

castevictim 6y ago
>People assign too much competence of current BJP government. That is mistaking its competence to get votes, retain power to competence in governance, the latter should have been very clear when it demonetized the currency plunging millions into poverty and economic turmoil from which the India has never recovered from. We are telling BJP is criminal, racist, and fascist political party(Its parent RSS directly borrowed its ideology from Nazi) which will go to any length to get votes and be in power.
- naruvimama 6y ago
  Fanta, Autobahn & Volkswagen are also products of the Nazis. One of the reasons Modi/BJP's opponents failed is because of the level of ridiculous accusations they level against them. An one point even staunch communists and Congress supports lost faith in their politics. I really do not understand how much people can hate the success of others. Contrast Reliance with the likes of Karunanidhi dynasty or the Gandhi dynasty, not only do these dynasts directly loot public money in the billions. They also have them stashed abroad, often in sensitive projects like Hamabanthota run by enemy states like China.
  - sassy_samurai 6y ago
    That guy castevictim is talking out of his ass. There's no truth to what he's saying. He's an anti-national Muslim.

aluksi 6y ago

While there is some resemblance of truth in your argument but to compare India's democratically elected government to CCP authoritarianism is totally absurd. There is always lobbying and influence peddling in any government in any part of the world but to pronounce something diabolical with rather tenuous anecdotal evidence is just political posturing.

castevictim 6y ago
>as it slips into total authoritarianism(like CCP). https://scroll.in/latest/950716/india-slips-10-spots-to-51st-rank-in-annual-democracy-index-due-to-erosion-of-civil-liberties https://scroll.in/latest/950716/india-slips-10-spots-to-51st...

blueblisters 6y ago

Ben later cited two articles written by people who are arguably closer in geographical proximity to Jio: - https://hind.substack.com/p/reliance-origins/ https://hind.substack.com/p/reliance-origins/ - https://hind.substack.com/p/from-oil-to-jio https://hind.substack.com/p/from-oil-to-jio The articles say that the Ambani family was very close to the Gandhis too. It's very hard to find a complete picture of how Reliance works - I guess they keep a very tight inner circle. Most accusations of impropriety are very vague. I don't think anyone disagrees that Reliance has tremendous political influence, but it's hard to argue that influence is greater than other Indian oligarchs (Mittals, Tatas, Birlas etc.). It's especially hard to curry favor at the expense of the other. I think the biggest reason for Reliance's relative success in cornering the telecom market is that their oil exports cashflow allows them to borrow money at much lower rates than their competitors, without worrying about hedging costs. The recent spate of investments have almost certainly been accelerated due to the drop in oil prices which has hurt their long-term debt settlement prospects tremendously. The investments gave a much needed sigh of relief for the Reliance group of companies and their bondholders.

castevictim 6y ago
>but it's hard to argue that influence is greater than other Indian oligarchs (Mittals, Tatas, Birlas etc.) That's naive at best. It's no secret that Billionaires have their way anywhere in the world, especially in India where inequality is enforced, armored with the caste system. So, an Entrepreneur belonging to high caste, heading a company (Infosys, TCS etc.) has far less hurdles than a lower caste individual whose even the right to education via the reservation system would be questioned at every step of their life. That said, Reliance - BJP nexus is nothing like India has seen before, so the political favors received by the Mittals, Tatas, Birlas pale in comparison. Details in other comment replies. >The investments gave a much needed sigh of relief for the Reliance group of companies and their bondholders. It was not like Jio was struggling for survival, which loads of other companies and millions of Indians do at this pandemic. Govt.'s answer to them? Get a loan from the Bank(Which none of the Banks are willing to give, even farmer gold loans have been halted in several states). Where else have we seen global competitors who are fighting neck and neck in different markets invest in a single company which hasn't proven anything else other than undercutting competitors with inferior technology? Only thing which makes Reliance-Jio different from any other companies in India are its political influence and that is why these global players are rushing to invest. That and the wretched data.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

coder_seeker 6y ago

> by investing in Jio - Facebook, Google, Qualcomm etc. not only acquire stake in 'The Enterprise' of India but also guaranteed of political favors apart from access to data from millions of Indians through a single unregulated channel. What about the rest of the dozen investor's including private equity and sovereign funds that have invested in Jio. What political favors could they possibly gain? I think these investor's are mostly looking at multiple rates of return when Jio will IPO either in India or overseas (probably US). It is just a super attractive investment opportunity that is similar to any Silicon Valley High Growth startup.

fakedang 6y ago
Uh, anything? Say you want to acquire property for cheap, like a port or a rezoned development. But laws get in the way. You call in Reliance and demand a favour, then they'll demand a favour from the government. It's happened very often in India to not notice. An affiliate of one of the funds in question actually owns port property in India. Private Equity has a lot to gain from this deal, and not just returns.

sbmthakur 6y ago

> Let me give you an example of the political reach companies like Adani, Reliance etc. which are in nexus with current ruling party - BJP have in India. I have personally heard from Ex. High Court judges that when they were presiding over cases involving Adani, Reliance they were approached by officials from those companies and were asked "Would you like to be a Governor after your retirement?". Corruption in judiciary is widely known and it predates Adani, Reliace etc. Nothing much can be done here as the Constitution exempts contempt of court from freedom of speech. > As there is practically no real opposition party left in India, BJP will rule India for for decades to come as it slips into total authoritarianism(like CCP). Similar predictions were made for Congress but things turned out differently. BJP has even lost some key states recently. That doesn't look like CCP in anyway.

ece 6y ago

Since gas prices are on high side and highly regulated by the government in India, I don't think Reliance ever faced pressures the way other refiners in the world did with low/high oil prices. If anything high pump prices are just another form of subsidy to Reliance as oil prices have stayed low in recent years.

sassy_samurai 6y ago

This guy is talking out of his ass. There's no truth to what he's saying. He's an anti-national Muslim.