4 ms·

The "worlds most famous" claim is from the website and not the poster

donaltroddyn 6y ago
I wasn't sure whether to remove that as a gratuitous adjective. Even without that claim, it's an interesting development, especially as the app cost only €850k. In contrast, our nearest neighbour scrapped their app last month after spending over £11MM (~€12MM) and are now rebuilding on the Apple/Google API: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53095336 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53095336 The code is already up on GitHub: https://github.com/HSEIreland https://github.com/HSEIreland
- Sephiroth87 6y ago
  I wouldn't put the focus on it being ONLY 850k, that seems a competent price, I would really like to know how in the world they spent 11M on the uk one...
  - ericlewis 6y ago
    this is the first I have learned about its price, and I will say- that seems about right given the resources.
  - addicted 6y ago
    That’s like 4 SV devs working a year. And just in salaries, not including payroll taxes, office space, admins, QAs, etc. 850k sounds eminently reasonable for such an undertaking in such a short period of time.
    - Sephiroth87 6y ago
      That's what I'm saying, it's the 11M that's not reasonable...
      - addicted44 6y ago
        I wasn't intending on disputing your statement but merely adding to it. Apologies if it came across that way.
    - ericlewis 6y ago
      We had a team of great devs and designers who worked on this. What most would consider “par for the course” in relation to an MVP startup for instance.
  - Someone 6y ago
    I don’t know specifics about the UK version, but most of those costs likely weren’t on the app proper. They did run a field test, for example. For comparison, the German version cost millions, too. That included multi-language support, setting up help lines, security evaluation, load testing millions of concurrent users and, IIRC, connecting to quite a few of different hospital computer systems. Add in time pressure, and costs go up. Germany did get a quality system, judging by what the spokesman for the Chaos Computer Club said (paraphrasing: ‘we have the unfamiliar problem that there is so little to complain about’. They never endorse stuff, so that’s about as endorsing as their statements can get)
    - donaltroddyn 6y ago
      It also includes the DPIA, which in itself can be an expensive process. There was a lot of concern/press in Ireland pre-release about the privacy implications of the app. It's hot on the heels of a "mandatory but not compulsory" national ID card fiasco that was determined to be unlawful by the privacy regulator last year: https://www.thejournal.ie/psc-no-legal-basis-4766822-Aug2019/ https://www.thejournal.ie/psc-no-legal-basis-4766822-Aug2019...
      - ericlewis 6y ago
        You’re not wrong.
    - ericlewis 6y ago
      We ran a field test too. But again; I probably can’t talk about that much. Sorry. If you have more in depth technical questions I might be able to answer them.
- ericlewis 6y ago
  I worked on this project a bit and have a deep understanding of how it went about, though, I am not sure how much I can talk about that. edit: I guess what can be said was it was a highly efficient project, and there weren't so many fingers in the development pot so to say.
  - Kinrany 6y ago
    Is this HN-speak for "it was a clusterfuck and there were too many stakeholders with incompatible requirements"?
    - IncRnd 6y ago
      It sounded like the opposite of what you wrote.
      - Kinrany 6y ago
        Yes, but given the previous phrase: > I am not sure how much I can talk about that it genuinely seemed like it might be a way to list the problems without saying that there were problems. I'm sorry that it seemed like I'm attacking the GP. I did not intend to, but I also knowingly ignored this interpretation, because wording is hard
        ericlewis 6y ago
        I didn’t mean it that way, I’m just not sure how much I could talk about it. For one, because I was involved but only so much. And two, because it’s not really my thing to talk about per se. As for problems, not really any problems. It was quite straight forward. I’m just not sure my company would appreciate me speaking on their behalf about details. Edit: but I can answer like, general technical details and things like that.
    - a_paddy 6y ago
      You can check the GitHub but it looks like there were only a max of 3 devs involved https://github.com/hseireland/ https://github.com/hseireland/
- drcongo 6y ago
  Beautiful trolling Ireland, bravo!
messe 6y ago
It says worlds most successful, which I presume is referring to the fact that nearly 30% of the population with compatible devices have downloaded it. EDIT: added the 'with compatabile devices' disclaimer
- ponker 6y ago
  That’s a little misleading though because the percentage of people who install the country’s contact tracing app is driven much more by the quality of the people than the quality of the app. So this app might be garbage, I don’t think this statistic says much one way or the other.
  - justinclift 6y ago
    > the percentage of people who install the country’s contact tracing app is driven much more by the quality of the people That sounds strange. Explain more?
    - albatross 6y ago
      You could write the cleanest, most bug-free and user-friendly app, release it in the US, and likely never see this level of adoption (I believe is the point that is being made here).
    - adrianmonk 6y ago
      So far it seems like a given country/jurisdiction standardizes on one app for everyone to use. (In theory, apps could be interoperable, but I don't know of this having happened.) So, the citizens' choice isn't between one app and another app. It is only whether or not to use the app that has been chosen for them. Therefore, their choice doesn't tell you much about the quality of the app. The primary driver of the decision is whether or not they're willing to take steps to fight the disease. It's similar to being served dinner on an airplane with only one meal option. They bring you the food, and you either eat it or you don't. The choice doesn't tell you much about whether the food was good. It's more of a reflection of whether you were hungry. The only thing it tells you about food quality is that it (if you eat it) it was somewhere between barely acceptable and excellent.

I wasn't sure whether to remove that as a gratuitous adjective. Even without that claim, it's an interesting development, especially as the app cost only €850k. In contrast, our nearest neighbour scrapped their app last month after spending over £11MM (~€12MM) and are now rebuilding on the Apple/Google API: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53095336 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53095336 The code is already up on GitHub: https://github.com/HSEIreland https://github.com/HSEIreland

Sephiroth87 6y ago
I wouldn't put the focus on it being ONLY 850k, that seems a competent price, I would really like to know how in the world they spent 11M on the uk one...
- ericlewis 6y ago
  this is the first I have learned about its price, and I will say- that seems about right given the resources.
- addicted 6y ago
  That’s like 4 SV devs working a year. And just in salaries, not including payroll taxes, office space, admins, QAs, etc. 850k sounds eminently reasonable for such an undertaking in such a short period of time.
  - Sephiroth87 6y ago
    That's what I'm saying, it's the 11M that's not reasonable...
    - addicted44 6y ago
      I wasn't intending on disputing your statement but merely adding to it. Apologies if it came across that way.
  - ericlewis 6y ago
    We had a team of great devs and designers who worked on this. What most would consider “par for the course” in relation to an MVP startup for instance.
- Someone 6y ago
  I don’t know specifics about the UK version, but most of those costs likely weren’t on the app proper. They did run a field test, for example. For comparison, the German version cost millions, too. That included multi-language support, setting up help lines, security evaluation, load testing millions of concurrent users and, IIRC, connecting to quite a few of different hospital computer systems. Add in time pressure, and costs go up. Germany did get a quality system, judging by what the spokesman for the Chaos Computer Club said (paraphrasing: ‘we have the unfamiliar problem that there is so little to complain about’. They never endorse stuff, so that’s about as endorsing as their statements can get)
  - donaltroddyn 6y ago
    It also includes the DPIA, which in itself can be an expensive process. There was a lot of concern/press in Ireland pre-release about the privacy implications of the app. It's hot on the heels of a "mandatory but not compulsory" national ID card fiasco that was determined to be unlawful by the privacy regulator last year: https://www.thejournal.ie/psc-no-legal-basis-4766822-Aug2019/ https://www.thejournal.ie/psc-no-legal-basis-4766822-Aug2019...
    - ericlewis 6y ago
      You’re not wrong.
  - ericlewis 6y ago
    We ran a field test too. But again; I probably can’t talk about that much. Sorry. If you have more in depth technical questions I might be able to answer them.
ericlewis 6y ago
I worked on this project a bit and have a deep understanding of how it went about, though, I am not sure how much I can talk about that. edit: I guess what can be said was it was a highly efficient project, and there weren't so many fingers in the development pot so to say.
- Kinrany 6y ago
  Is this HN-speak for "it was a clusterfuck and there were too many stakeholders with incompatible requirements"?
  - IncRnd 6y ago
    It sounded like the opposite of what you wrote.
    - Kinrany 6y ago
      Yes, but given the previous phrase: > I am not sure how much I can talk about that it genuinely seemed like it might be a way to list the problems without saying that there were problems. I'm sorry that it seemed like I'm attacking the GP. I did not intend to, but I also knowingly ignored this interpretation, because wording is hard
      - ericlewis 6y ago
        I didn’t mean it that way, I’m just not sure how much I could talk about it. For one, because I was involved but only so much. And two, because it’s not really my thing to talk about per se. As for problems, not really any problems. It was quite straight forward. I’m just not sure my company would appreciate me speaking on their behalf about details. Edit: but I can answer like, general technical details and things like that.
  - a_paddy 6y ago
    You can check the GitHub but it looks like there were only a max of 3 devs involved https://github.com/hseireland/ https://github.com/hseireland/
drcongo 6y ago
Beautiful trolling Ireland, bravo!

messe 6y ago

It says worlds most successful, which I presume is referring to the fact that nearly 30% of the population with compatible devices have downloaded it. EDIT: added the 'with compatabile devices' disclaimer

ponker 6y ago
That’s a little misleading though because the percentage of people who install the country’s contact tracing app is driven much more by the quality of the people than the quality of the app. So this app might be garbage, I don’t think this statistic says much one way or the other.
- justinclift 6y ago
  > the percentage of people who install the country’s contact tracing app is driven much more by the quality of the people That sounds strange. Explain more?
  - albatross 6y ago
    You could write the cleanest, most bug-free and user-friendly app, release it in the US, and likely never see this level of adoption (I believe is the point that is being made here).
  - adrianmonk 6y ago
    So far it seems like a given country/jurisdiction standardizes on one app for everyone to use. (In theory, apps could be interoperable, but I don't know of this having happened.) So, the citizens' choice isn't between one app and another app. It is only whether or not to use the app that has been chosen for them. Therefore, their choice doesn't tell you much about the quality of the app. The primary driver of the decision is whether or not they're willing to take steps to fight the disease. It's similar to being served dinner on an airplane with only one meal option. They bring you the food, and you either eat it or you don't. The choice doesn't tell you much about whether the food was good. It's more of a reflection of whether you were hungry. The only thing it tells you about food quality is that it (if you eat it) it was somewhere between barely acceptable and excellent.