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U.S. is just concerned that China, and not them, will get an edge in spying and the next industrial revolution. Speaking of human rights it should be noted that
by jk20 6y ago
U.S. is just concerned that China, and not them, will get an edge in spying and the next industrial revolution. Speaking of human rights it should be noted that U.S. not only wantonly attacks or bullies other countries, but it also has the highest incarceration rate in the world - in absolute terms the number of inmates is comparable to that of China and India combined.
- msla 6y agoLiterally no country which fought the Nazis was completely moral. Should nobody have fought the Nazis?
- msla 6y agoDoes nobody have a counterargument to this?
- rashkov 6y agoRegarding your first point, yes, that’s an interesting take. Regarding the criticism of the US, yes you’re probably correct, but this is a “what about” argument that doesn’t really aid the discussion in my opinion.
- Barrin92 6y agoWhataboutism gets brought out too fast to dismiss discussion. Democratic systems project their values by demonstrating them. A democratic state that cannot show that its values work will have no ability to demand of others to emulate it. In that context the failures of the US (as it is de-facto the standard-bearer of political liberalism in a broad sense), have real influence. When the Chinese look around the world and they see the state of the US on imprisonment, racial conflict, failure during the current covid crisis and so on, this strengthens the domestic control of the party and the alternative autocratic system the government is advocating.
- Nursie 6y agoBut it is whataboutery. We're discussing why the UK might not want a Chinese state-allied (if not owned) actor embedded in its comms networks, and here everyone is saying "buh buh buh America!" And frankly if you look at what's happening with BLM (mass protest in the US over a pattern of racist police murders, significant parts of the country vocally criticising the apparatus of state) and consider that somehow worse than the semi-secret genocide of millions, with all discussion suppressed, going on in China....
- Barrin92 6y agonobody is saying that that is worse than literal concentration camps, what people are saying is that failures to live up to racial justice at home weaken your ability to authentically criticize violations abroad, and that's a very valid point. And as far as communications infrastructure is concerned it's relevant too. In countries like Germany or Eastern Europe in particular the behaviour of espionage among allies over recent years has created an atmosphere of "well everyone is spying on us anyway" substantially weakening the case against Huawei, say. Also as far as discussion here is concerned, most people here are from Western countries, so at the end of the day discussions will mostly be about our own behaviours.
- Nursie 6y agoBut it is whataboutery when it's used to deflect and minimise the original criticisms of what the Chinese regime are doing, which is what we are seeing here. What people are saying, pretty straight out and literally in some comments, is "Stop whining about China, the West is just as bad". It's not, and it's pure distraction.
- Karunamon 6y ago>weaken your ability to authentically criticize violations abroad It does no such thing. Being a hypocrite does not impact the correctness or incorrectness of what you're saying (which is why the tu quoque fallacy is a fallacy), doubly so when we're talking about entirely different categories of abuses that invalidate the hypocrisy charge anyways.