4 ms·

Why Internet Explorer will survive and Firefox won't

10 points by shimi 16y ago

Timmy_C 16y ago
This article argues that apps are the only future for browsers and by virtue of the fact that Firefox doesn't have a dedicated "app ecosystem" it will be extinct. I don't follow the reasoning since I don't really see why I have to use Internet Explorer to use a Microsoft web app just as I don't have to use Chrome in order to get my Gmail.
- th0ma5 16y ago
  I would say if it doesn't make any sense, or is making some kind of broad logic leap like this, then it is probably MS purchased FUD.
  - bittermang 16y ago
    It is incredible how consistently throughout the years ZD Net has been a mouthpiece for MS FUD.
- Timmy_C 16y ago
  The Chrome apps he's talking about get downloaded to your machine then run in the browser as if they were a webpage on the net. I'm guessing that Internet Explorer 9 has a similar feature but Firefox doesn't have anything like this on the roadmap.
- MatthewPhillips 16y ago
  Actually this was the only part of the article that makes sense. Both Chrome and IE have APIs that add special features not part of the general html spec. For example, Chrome apps can run in the background even when a tab is not open. Firefox can't do that. IE apps can integrate with Windows 7 and be pinned directly to the taskbar and have access to jump list commands. Firefox can't do that. Now I don't think that's enough to hurt Mozilla in any significant way, and these types of features will probably be standardized down the line, but it is true that these other 2 browsers have some special capabilities.
bediger 16y ago
What's the backstory here? You usually only see this style of contrariness in old timers, and it's usually reserved for IBM. Did Ed Bott have some skin in IE6, and he's upset that Firefox blew a hole in the side of Microsoft's lack of maintenance on IE6?
marckremers 16y ago
I simply beg to differ. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
- Timmy_C 16y ago
  These are just the browser stats for this site and I see your point. However, the article is implying that there is going to be a trend toward browser apps in the future and Firefox does not have a built-in browser app platform.
skymt 16y ago
This reads like linkbait to me. The author doesn't really have a coherent argument: he spends the first half of the article talking about Firefox's relatively slow* release cycle, but never bothers to explain why that's a death sentence. Instead, he jumps to another argument entirely in the second half: Firefox's lack of an "app ecosystem". This is truly delusional. Firefox has just as much of an app ecosystem as IE: it runs code on websites you go to. It's true that it lacks Chrome's app store (which right now amounts to little more than a glorified link directory and alternate bookmark system), but if that's a disadvantage it applies equally to IE. * Relatively slow only with sufficient handwaving: call IE's platform previews equivalent to Chrome's full releases, then dismiss without justification Mozilla's new accelerated schedule for Firefox.
- MatthewPhillips 16y ago
  Chrome Web Store is not a link directory, that's as much FUD as you accuse them of spreading about Firefox release cycle (which I agree with).
  - skymt 16y ago
    The Chrome store could be more than a link directory, and if that happens it'll be for the same reason Apple's App Store took off: centralized payment. A sane payment system for web apps could be revolutionary, but before that happens we'll need to change the Web's culture. Right now people simply don't pay for web content. The ability for the Chrome store to deliver local apps, which I suspect you were referring to, is mostly unused and irrelevant. HTML5's offline features can duplicate that functionality on any browser that supports them.
    - MatthewPhillips 16y ago
      Packaged apps is just one of the many (and growing) features of being a Chrome apps. But packaged apps don't have anything to do with offline storage. There could be a packaged app spec in HTML in the future, but there isn't today. Nor is there a spec for background pages, cross-domain XHR.
- 16y ago
bittermang 16y ago
I believe if Firefox dies, it will be because it did not learn from the Netscape Navigator it was born from. I switched from Netscape to IE when I realized the application had become bloated beyond recognition. I didn't need an email client inside of Netscape, I didn't need a news reader inside of Netscape, I didn't need all of these things. I'm seeing shades of this in Firefox. Specifically, Firefox Sync. It's a great idea, for some people. However in my scenario my tabs and bookmarks in one location are completely different from my tabs and bookmarks in another. I don't need the ability to bridge them. It would be a neat add on, but I don't need it built into the core. That is what made Firefox great in the first place. Add ons. That's why I've stuck with Firefox. Add ons. Features like Sync are cool, but in my opinion they should be optional add ons.
js4all 16y ago
Fact is: Firefox had 4.6 Million downloads in the first 24 hours after its launch, IE9 had 2.3 Million downloads in the same period. The previous IE versions have continuously lost ground. I expect better researched articles from ZDNet.
- matthewn 16y ago
  > I expect better researched articles from ZDNet. I cannot think of a single good reason why you would.
  - js4all 16y ago
    touché
bryanlarsen 16y ago
There are a couple of good arguments in the incoherent linkbait. Luckilly, Mozilla knows this and has answers for both. 1) A continued slow release cycle will kill Firefox. Very true. Which is why Mozilla is switching to a 3 month cycle. 2) An app story is required. I'm not sure if I buy it, but Mozilla also has an answer to that: https://apps.mozillalabs.com/ https://apps.mozillalabs.com/
bilban 16y ago
Quite exciting this IE resurgence. It's a good reminder that you can't sit on your laurels - you have to keep innovating - and/or push yourself ahead of the pack. To the average Joe - what makes the new Firefox any different to the last version? Javascript and rendering performance tweaks are great - but the UI still sucks.

10 points by shimi 16y ago

This article argues that apps are the only future for browsers and by virtue of the fact that Firefox doesn't have a dedicated "app ecosystem" it will be extinct. I don't follow the reasoning since I don't really see why I have to use Internet Explorer to use a Microsoft web app just as I don't have to use Chrome in order to get my Gmail.

th0ma5 16y ago
I would say if it doesn't make any sense, or is making some kind of broad logic leap like this, then it is probably MS purchased FUD.
- bittermang 16y ago
  It is incredible how consistently throughout the years ZD Net has been a mouthpiece for MS FUD.
Timmy_C 16y ago
The Chrome apps he's talking about get downloaded to your machine then run in the browser as if they were a webpage on the net. I'm guessing that Internet Explorer 9 has a similar feature but Firefox doesn't have anything like this on the roadmap.
MatthewPhillips 16y ago
Actually this was the only part of the article that makes sense. Both Chrome and IE have APIs that add special features not part of the general html spec. For example, Chrome apps can run in the background even when a tab is not open. Firefox can't do that. IE apps can integrate with Windows 7 and be pinned directly to the taskbar and have access to jump list commands. Firefox can't do that. Now I don't think that's enough to hurt Mozilla in any significant way, and these types of features will probably be standardized down the line, but it is true that these other 2 browsers have some special capabilities.

bediger 16y ago

What's the backstory here? You usually only see this style of contrariness in old timers, and it's usually reserved for IBM. Did Ed Bott have some skin in IE6, and he's upset that Firefox blew a hole in the side of Microsoft's lack of maintenance on IE6?

marckremers 16y ago

I simply beg to differ. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Timmy_C 16y ago
These are just the browser stats for this site and I see your point. However, the article is implying that there is going to be a trend toward browser apps in the future and Firefox does not have a built-in browser app platform.

skymt 16y ago

This reads like linkbait to me. The author doesn't really have a coherent argument: he spends the first half of the article talking about Firefox's relatively slow* release cycle, but never bothers to explain why that's a death sentence. Instead, he jumps to another argument entirely in the second half: Firefox's lack of an "app ecosystem". This is truly delusional. Firefox has just as much of an app ecosystem as IE: it runs code on websites you go to. It's true that it lacks Chrome's app store (which right now amounts to little more than a glorified link directory and alternate bookmark system), but if that's a disadvantage it applies equally to IE. * Relatively slow only with sufficient handwaving: call IE's platform previews equivalent to Chrome's full releases, then dismiss without justification Mozilla's new accelerated schedule for Firefox.

MatthewPhillips 16y ago
Chrome Web Store is not a link directory, that's as much FUD as you accuse them of spreading about Firefox release cycle (which I agree with).
- skymt 16y ago
  The Chrome store could be more than a link directory, and if that happens it'll be for the same reason Apple's App Store took off: centralized payment. A sane payment system for web apps could be revolutionary, but before that happens we'll need to change the Web's culture. Right now people simply don't pay for web content. The ability for the Chrome store to deliver local apps, which I suspect you were referring to, is mostly unused and irrelevant. HTML5's offline features can duplicate that functionality on any browser that supports them.
  - MatthewPhillips 16y ago
    Packaged apps is just one of the many (and growing) features of being a Chrome apps. But packaged apps don't have anything to do with offline storage. There could be a packaged app spec in HTML in the future, but there isn't today. Nor is there a spec for background pages, cross-domain XHR.
16y ago

bittermang 16y ago

I believe if Firefox dies, it will be because it did not learn from the Netscape Navigator it was born from. I switched from Netscape to IE when I realized the application had become bloated beyond recognition. I didn't need an email client inside of Netscape, I didn't need a news reader inside of Netscape, I didn't need all of these things. I'm seeing shades of this in Firefox. Specifically, Firefox Sync. It's a great idea, for some people. However in my scenario my tabs and bookmarks in one location are completely different from my tabs and bookmarks in another. I don't need the ability to bridge them. It would be a neat add on, but I don't need it built into the core. That is what made Firefox great in the first place. Add ons. That's why I've stuck with Firefox. Add ons. Features like Sync are cool, but in my opinion they should be optional add ons.

js4all 16y ago

Fact is: Firefox had 4.6 Million downloads in the first 24 hours after its launch, IE9 had 2.3 Million downloads in the same period. The previous IE versions have continuously lost ground. I expect better researched articles from ZDNet.

matthewn 16y ago
> I expect better researched articles from ZDNet. I cannot think of a single good reason why you would.
- js4all 16y ago
  touché

bryanlarsen 16y ago

There are a couple of good arguments in the incoherent linkbait. Luckilly, Mozilla knows this and has answers for both. 1) A continued slow release cycle will kill Firefox. Very true. Which is why Mozilla is switching to a 3 month cycle. 2) An app story is required. I'm not sure if I buy it, but Mozilla also has an answer to that: https://apps.mozillalabs.com/ https://apps.mozillalabs.com/

bilban 16y ago

Quite exciting this IE resurgence. It's a good reminder that you can't sit on your laurels - you have to keep innovating - and/or push yourself ahead of the pack. To the average Joe - what makes the new Firefox any different to the last version? Javascript and rendering performance tweaks are great - but the UI still sucks.