5 ms·

You are probably also taking it out of context. You have no idea what has happened in that neighborhood in the last year or decade. You have no idea what those

You are probably also taking it out of context. You have no idea what has happened in that neighborhood in the last year or decade. You have no idea what those perps and officers have experienced. Right?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ViViDboarder 6y ago
The last year or decade are irrelevant in terms of the law.
danShumway 6y ago
> in the last year or decade > what those perps and officers have experienced Both totally irrelevant to whether or not it's appropriate to punch a handcuffed prisoner in the face while they're not resisting. If a cop is suffering from PTSD or stress to the point where they can't keep themselves from assaulting a handcuffed prisoner, then I am genuinely very sorry for them, but they're still in the wrong job and they still need to be let go.
- aganame 6y ago
  Have you ever had to restrain a person who might want to kill you? While wearing a firearm? I have done some grappling in MA myself, but I imagine the stakes are in another dimension on a real situation. I'm not totally certain there are any people who can be "good" at it in the sense that they'll never make mistakes or lose their cool. Then consider that there are over 10 million situations every year where something may go wrong. How could you make it never go wrong?
  - fzeroracer 6y ago
    You're making this argument in a thread where police have been found brutally beating people who are already restrained and/or not resisting arrest. People without firearms. Or people that are protesting peacefully. Or a 75 year old man who was entirely harmless. Come on.
  - danShumway 6y ago
    In the course of one thread, there's now a series of sequential arguments from several different commenters progressing from: "A lot of these videos don't show anything wrong", to "Well, here's at least two videos that show nothing wrong", to "Okay, the video looks bad, but the full context probably justifies it", to "Sure it was wrong, but keep in mind that in a stressful situation everybody makes mistakes". I'm eager to see how these arguments continue to evolve once comments move away from isolated video clips and into the territory of police departments lying about video footage[0], or 57 other officers resigning in protest over basic disciplinary actions[1]. [0]: https://www.newsweek.com/buffalo-mayor-acknowledges-mistake-police-first-saying-elderly-protester-tripped-1510707 https://www.newsweek.com/buffalo-mayor-acknowledges-mistake-... [1]: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-...
    - mulmen 6y ago
      The union said the officers resigned in support of their peers. Two officers have said they actually resigned because the union refused any legal aid. Further the same officers said that many of those who resigned do not in fact support the suspended officers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_police_shoving_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_police_shoving_inciden... https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-police-ert-members-say-resignation-was-not-in-solidarity-with-suspended-officers https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-p...
    - dillonmckay 6y ago
      But, not really resigning in the sense of no longer an employee, just, not responsible for that role. So, still getting paid.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - totetsu 6y ago
    Most of the MA I have attended that had a serious focus on self defense, were focused on deescalation, safety and dealing with the stress of the moment. There is a place for the use of violence to educate someone that it's in their best interest to change their behavior, but prolonged choke holds or grappling aren't helping keep anyone safe in most on the street situations.
- markvdb 6y ago
  If the police officer is suffering from PTSD, a mental illness, and it originated at work, the police department as their employer should look into other options first before firing the unfit officer. Treatment combined with appropriate work should be the first option. Treatment combined with sick leave should obviously be the second.
  - danShumway 6y ago
    I'm willing to compromise on how treatment/employment is handled, especially if the problem originated at work, but I assume we're still in agreement that the officer shouldn't be on the street making arrests?

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ViViDboarder 6y ago

The last year or decade are irrelevant in terms of the law.

danShumway 6y ago

> in the last year or decade > what those perps and officers have experienced Both totally irrelevant to whether or not it's appropriate to punch a handcuffed prisoner in the face while they're not resisting. If a cop is suffering from PTSD or stress to the point where they can't keep themselves from assaulting a handcuffed prisoner, then I am genuinely very sorry for them, but they're still in the wrong job and they still need to be let go.

aganame 6y ago
Have you ever had to restrain a person who might want to kill you? While wearing a firearm? I have done some grappling in MA myself, but I imagine the stakes are in another dimension on a real situation. I'm not totally certain there are any people who can be "good" at it in the sense that they'll never make mistakes or lose their cool. Then consider that there are over 10 million situations every year where something may go wrong. How could you make it never go wrong?
- fzeroracer 6y ago
  You're making this argument in a thread where police have been found brutally beating people who are already restrained and/or not resisting arrest. People without firearms. Or people that are protesting peacefully. Or a 75 year old man who was entirely harmless. Come on.
- danShumway 6y ago
  In the course of one thread, there's now a series of sequential arguments from several different commenters progressing from: "A lot of these videos don't show anything wrong", to "Well, here's at least two videos that show nothing wrong", to "Okay, the video looks bad, but the full context probably justifies it", to "Sure it was wrong, but keep in mind that in a stressful situation everybody makes mistakes". I'm eager to see how these arguments continue to evolve once comments move away from isolated video clips and into the territory of police departments lying about video footage[0], or 57 other officers resigning in protest over basic disciplinary actions[1]. [0]: https://www.newsweek.com/buffalo-mayor-acknowledges-mistake-police-first-saying-elderly-protester-tripped-1510707 https://www.newsweek.com/buffalo-mayor-acknowledges-mistake-... [1]: https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-shoving-man-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/05/us/buffalo-police-suspension-...
  - mulmen 6y ago
    The union said the officers resigned in support of their peers. Two officers have said they actually resigned because the union refused any legal aid. Further the same officers said that many of those who resigned do not in fact support the suspended officers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_police_shoving_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_police_shoving_inciden... https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-police-ert-members-say-resignation-was-not-in-solidarity-with-suspended-officers https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/exclusive-two-buffalo-p...
  - dillonmckay 6y ago
    But, not really resigning in the sense of no longer an employee, just, not responsible for that role. So, still getting paid.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- totetsu 6y ago
  Most of the MA I have attended that had a serious focus on self defense, were focused on deescalation, safety and dealing with the stress of the moment. There is a place for the use of violence to educate someone that it's in their best interest to change their behavior, but prolonged choke holds or grappling aren't helping keep anyone safe in most on the street situations.
markvdb 6y ago
If the police officer is suffering from PTSD, a mental illness, and it originated at work, the police department as their employer should look into other options first before firing the unfit officer. Treatment combined with appropriate work should be the first option. Treatment combined with sick leave should obviously be the second.
- danShumway 6y ago
  I'm willing to compromise on how treatment/employment is handled, especially if the problem originated at work, but I assume we're still in agreement that the officer shouldn't be on the street making arrests?