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I think you did not get the purpose of the project and its context. 1. What should we copy ? We already have cloud companies in Europe. The issue is not about a

I think you did not get the purpose of the project and its context. 1. What should we copy ? We already have cloud companies in Europe. The issue is not about a lack of knowledge about cloud technologies. It is a matter of market share. Our companies are not big enough to provide adequate services to european states and sensitive industries. 2. The goal is not to create from scratch a European cloud giant that would be able to challenge Chinese and US powerhouses. It is just way not to rely on them as they cannot be trusted in any manner when it comes to data management and fair competition. As stated many times by Trump and Xi Jiping, EU is a competitor or even worse an enemy. In Europe we share this same bellicose analysis too now. And cloud is a battle among others, but an important one.

Udik 6y ago
True, I don't think we need to copy the technology: that is probably easily available, you just need good engineers and money. The problem is exactly the second you mention: why is it that EU companies don't have the market share that US ones have? Why are our companies not big enough? What prevents entrepreneurs in Europe from creating tech giants such as the US ones? These are the things we need to copy- not the technology. > The goal is not to create from scratch a European cloud giant ... It is just way not to rely on them And how do you avoid relying on them? Are you going to force EU companies to choose a EU cloud provider, even when they would have preferred a US one? No, you need to create an offer that is competitive: and once it is, it will be competitive for everyone, not just our companies.
- Pedrit0 6y ago
  > why is it that EU companies don't have the market share that US ones have? Why are our companies not big enough? They created the Cloud and we arrived late on this market, so we lag, therefore our companies are not big enough. This FR-GER initiative will secure market shares for european actors, in order they can grow enough to provide a sovereign platform for EU companies which need it. > Are you going to force EU companies to choose a EU cloud provider, even when they would have preferred a US one? All defense/sensitive/state owned companies, administration and maybe banking companies will not have the choice as they must comply to EU or national rules about data management. And I guess many european companies competiting with US and Chinese ones in highly competitive markets where bleeding edge techs and secrecy matter are looking for sovereign European solutions.
  - Udik 6y ago
    > They created the Cloud and we arrived late on this market Same for the web, for the mobile, and for many other sectors. We seem to be always late on the market, why is it so? > All defense/sensitive/state owned companies, administration and maybe banking companies will not have the choice Ok, so if I understand it correctly the EU is going to regulate out from some sectors non-EU companies and has to both come up with a legal excuse and to create some acceptable alternative before the regulation comes in force. And if the alternative is mediocre it won't be much of an issue because there will be no choice anyway. But the idea of creating an interoperable standard is good: it could allow a sane competition between companies to provide a basic standardised service. I hope it doesn't resolve in the next embarrassment. It won't solve our problem of constantly lagging in most consumer high tech sectors anyway.
    - Pedrit0 6y ago
      > Same for the web, for the mobile, and for many other sectors. We seem to be always late on the market, why is it so? 1.We lost the WWII. The US won it and took the leadership of the world. At a moment we were rebuilding our continent, they developed very quickly and took a competitive advantage in many sectors. We managed to catch-up in some but not in others. And since the beginning IT has always been an American thing (apart Minitel in France in the 80's). The information era was shaped by IBM, Bell, Intel, Microsoft. Not by Thomson, Siemens or Olivetti. 2.The US are very good at selling stuff and making profit. But as I stated in another post this also has big downsides. 3. Europe is not a country and there are 27 economic policies and strategies which does not help European companies... 4. I think mobile developed first in Europe (Nokia ?)and not in the US but this is detail. . > And if the alternative is mediocre it won't be much of an issue because there will be no choice anyway. This move is not about making good products or value the european savoir-faire. It is about geopolitics.
      - Udik 6y ago
        > And since the beginning IT has always been an American thing > apart Minitel in France in the 80's > Thomson, Siemens or Olivetti. > I think mobile developed first in Europe (Nokia ?) Yep. And let's not forget that the www was invented by an Englishman in Geneva. So how come we seem to be losing all the battles in the end? I agree that there's geopolitical explanations too: another commenter mentioned that the petro-dollar system grant the US with a much lower cost of money- and it's not a small thing. If I understand it correctly, the US acts as the world's bank: prints money that everybody is forced to use and emits in exchange debt titles that everybody wants to buy. That's a huge advantage. But let's not forget that in the US rules are simpler and companies often have a relative freedom to break them if the public finds it useful; that they can easily downsize and fire underperforming people in case of need; that professionalism and expertise are highly valued; that public administrations are open and welcome new initiatives (imagine in the EU a small private company like SpaceX was at the beginning getting multi-billion contracts from ESA...). While in France you have judges ordering (shamelessly, in my view) that Google both has to do a certain job and pay for the privilege of doing it.
- Pedrit0 6y ago
  > These are the things we need to copy- not the technology. This is only my own subjective opinion: the worst thing that we could copy from the US is their business mindset. It destroys society, states, fair competition, and at the end the core values of capitalism. Their mindset gave them leadership but now is about to destroy their society. We have to find our own path.
  - Udik 6y ago
    I agree up to a point. I do think as well that there are the downsides you mentioned to the US business and social culture. But at the same time it produces a clear supremacy in a lot of sectors. We might be able to find a sweet European middle ground, but we need to start with the idea of learning from others, and learning is always a changing process. And I don't think that declaring your pride and love for who you are is a good starting point for any kind of change.
    - Pedrit0 6y ago
      > "And I don't think that declaring your pride and love for who you are is a good starting point for any kind of change." Lol. American do it constantly and it works for them.
      - Udik 6y ago
        They don't need to change from this point of view. And probably will never change for the others :)

Udik 6y ago

True, I don't think we need to copy the technology: that is probably easily available, you just need good engineers and money. The problem is exactly the second you mention: why is it that EU companies don't have the market share that US ones have? Why are our companies not big enough? What prevents entrepreneurs in Europe from creating tech giants such as the US ones? These are the things we need to copy- not the technology. > The goal is not to create from scratch a European cloud giant ... It is just way not to rely on them And how do you avoid relying on them? Are you going to force EU companies to choose a EU cloud provider, even when they would have preferred a US one? No, you need to create an offer that is competitive: and once it is, it will be competitive for everyone, not just our companies.

Pedrit0 6y ago
> why is it that EU companies don't have the market share that US ones have? Why are our companies not big enough? They created the Cloud and we arrived late on this market, so we lag, therefore our companies are not big enough. This FR-GER initiative will secure market shares for european actors, in order they can grow enough to provide a sovereign platform for EU companies which need it. > Are you going to force EU companies to choose a EU cloud provider, even when they would have preferred a US one? All defense/sensitive/state owned companies, administration and maybe banking companies will not have the choice as they must comply to EU or national rules about data management. And I guess many european companies competiting with US and Chinese ones in highly competitive markets where bleeding edge techs and secrecy matter are looking for sovereign European solutions.
- Udik 6y ago
  > They created the Cloud and we arrived late on this market Same for the web, for the mobile, and for many other sectors. We seem to be always late on the market, why is it so? > All defense/sensitive/state owned companies, administration and maybe banking companies will not have the choice Ok, so if I understand it correctly the EU is going to regulate out from some sectors non-EU companies and has to both come up with a legal excuse and to create some acceptable alternative before the regulation comes in force. And if the alternative is mediocre it won't be much of an issue because there will be no choice anyway. But the idea of creating an interoperable standard is good: it could allow a sane competition between companies to provide a basic standardised service. I hope it doesn't resolve in the next embarrassment. It won't solve our problem of constantly lagging in most consumer high tech sectors anyway.
  - Pedrit0 6y ago
    > Same for the web, for the mobile, and for many other sectors. We seem to be always late on the market, why is it so? 1.We lost the WWII. The US won it and took the leadership of the world. At a moment we were rebuilding our continent, they developed very quickly and took a competitive advantage in many sectors. We managed to catch-up in some but not in others. And since the beginning IT has always been an American thing (apart Minitel in France in the 80's). The information era was shaped by IBM, Bell, Intel, Microsoft. Not by Thomson, Siemens or Olivetti. 2.The US are very good at selling stuff and making profit. But as I stated in another post this also has big downsides. 3. Europe is not a country and there are 27 economic policies and strategies which does not help European companies... 4. I think mobile developed first in Europe (Nokia ?)and not in the US but this is detail. . > And if the alternative is mediocre it won't be much of an issue because there will be no choice anyway. This move is not about making good products or value the european savoir-faire. It is about geopolitics.
    - Udik 6y ago
      > And since the beginning IT has always been an American thing > apart Minitel in France in the 80's > Thomson, Siemens or Olivetti. > I think mobile developed first in Europe (Nokia ?) Yep. And let's not forget that the www was invented by an Englishman in Geneva. So how come we seem to be losing all the battles in the end? I agree that there's geopolitical explanations too: another commenter mentioned that the petro-dollar system grant the US with a much lower cost of money- and it's not a small thing. If I understand it correctly, the US acts as the world's bank: prints money that everybody is forced to use and emits in exchange debt titles that everybody wants to buy. That's a huge advantage. But let's not forget that in the US rules are simpler and companies often have a relative freedom to break them if the public finds it useful; that they can easily downsize and fire underperforming people in case of need; that professionalism and expertise are highly valued; that public administrations are open and welcome new initiatives (imagine in the EU a small private company like SpaceX was at the beginning getting multi-billion contracts from ESA...). While in France you have judges ordering (shamelessly, in my view) that Google both has to do a certain job and pay for the privilege of doing it.
Pedrit0 6y ago
> These are the things we need to copy- not the technology. This is only my own subjective opinion: the worst thing that we could copy from the US is their business mindset. It destroys society, states, fair competition, and at the end the core values of capitalism. Their mindset gave them leadership but now is about to destroy their society. We have to find our own path.
- Udik 6y ago
  I agree up to a point. I do think as well that there are the downsides you mentioned to the US business and social culture. But at the same time it produces a clear supremacy in a lot of sectors. We might be able to find a sweet European middle ground, but we need to start with the idea of learning from others, and learning is always a changing process. And I don't think that declaring your pride and love for who you are is a good starting point for any kind of change.
  - Pedrit0 6y ago
    > "And I don't think that declaring your pride and love for who you are is a good starting point for any kind of change." Lol. American do it constantly and it works for them.
    - Udik 6y ago
      They don't need to change from this point of view. And probably will never change for the others :)