5 ms·

The movement to bring supply chains back to the US, or at the very least out of China, is far bigger than Trump.

fermienrico 6y ago
Not just US, the entire world is waking up to CCP's iron grip. Europe, Korea, Japan, India and Australia are planning to recede from China's dependence on manufacturing. This is an amazing time to be alive, I encourage people to look into manufacturing disciplines. As Elon put it (agree or disagree with him, but he is right about this) - "Someone's gotta build stuff. If you're not doing it, someone else is." Physical things don't just pop out of thin air. Every single thing except your body and natural substances are manmade. Someone decided how its gonna be built and how it will come into existence.
- forgot_again 6y ago
  Completely agree. I believe that we need to reframe the debate around manufacturing from one about jobs to one about national security. This mentally frees us to fully invest in manufacturing automation, which will neutralize any labor cost advantages China and other countries may have.
- yumraj 6y ago
  Except that Elon is moving deeper and deeper into China...
MangoCoffee 6y ago
for the first time in a long time both party agree on this. i believed this is the U.S. failure for believing in China. U.S. bring China into WTO, open up trade and hollow out Midwest. what American get in return is Emperor Xi. CCP is not going to change and Xi already have more powers consolidated into him than any other previous CCP leader even Mao. American's dream for a open and democratic China is long dead.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > American's dream for a open and democratic China is long dead. There already is an open and democratic China across the Taiwan straight. And the USA has a looong history of rather ambivalent relationship with it, starting from the Chinese civil war (to the surprise of many, US has sided with Mao for quite a number of times) For long, US policy was to purposefully keep the Republic of China weak, vulnerable, and dependent. Were the US even 1% genuine in their commitment to seeing democratic China, they would not be consistently setting up Taiwan to be undermined politically.
  - forgot_again 6y ago
    We're discussing a recent change in tone, behavior and overall policy. What you're describing is the product of previous administrations working hard to get on (the People's Republic of) China's good side, cozying up to China and trying to integrate it into the Democratic community. This is now precisely what is changing.
  - magicsmoke 6y ago
    Because during the cold war Taiwan wasn't nearly big enough to counterbalance the USSR. the PRC was, and when the US got bloodied in Vietnam and needed to pull out they wanted to make sure the USSR couldn't step into the hole they left behind and start pushing across the rest of Southeast Asia. Cue the PRC. Right after the US left, the PRC had their own war with Vietnam because they thought Vietnam was working with the USSR to conquer the rest of Southeast Asia and surround them, and the PRC and the US ended up working to isolate Vietnam over its invasion of Cambodia and put pressure on the USSR. With China holding down the fort in East Asia, the US could pull back its military spending from 10% GDP to 5% GDP in the 70s while the USSR got bankrupted by a new military threat. Doesn't look like US politicians today are willing to throw Eastern Europe under the bus to flip Russia against the PRC like they threw Taiwan under the bus though.
    - sudosysgen 6y ago
      Even without Russia as a threat, China is incomparable to the USSR. Its productive potential dwarfs that of the US manifold.

Not just US, the entire world is waking up to CCP's iron grip. Europe, Korea, Japan, India and Australia are planning to recede from China's dependence on manufacturing. This is an amazing time to be alive, I encourage people to look into manufacturing disciplines. As Elon put it (agree or disagree with him, but he is right about this) - "Someone's gotta build stuff. If you're not doing it, someone else is." Physical things don't just pop out of thin air. Every single thing except your body and natural substances are manmade. Someone decided how its gonna be built and how it will come into existence.

forgot_again 6y ago
Completely agree. I believe that we need to reframe the debate around manufacturing from one about jobs to one about national security. This mentally frees us to fully invest in manufacturing automation, which will neutralize any labor cost advantages China and other countries may have.
yumraj 6y ago
Except that Elon is moving deeper and deeper into China...

MangoCoffee 6y ago

for the first time in a long time both party agree on this. i believed this is the U.S. failure for believing in China. U.S. bring China into WTO, open up trade and hollow out Midwest. what American get in return is Emperor Xi. CCP is not going to change and Xi already have more powers consolidated into him than any other previous CCP leader even Mao. American's dream for a open and democratic China is long dead.

baybal2 6y ago
> American's dream for a open and democratic China is long dead. There already is an open and democratic China across the Taiwan straight. And the USA has a looong history of rather ambivalent relationship with it, starting from the Chinese civil war (to the surprise of many, US has sided with Mao for quite a number of times) For long, US policy was to purposefully keep the Republic of China weak, vulnerable, and dependent. Were the US even 1% genuine in their commitment to seeing democratic China, they would not be consistently setting up Taiwan to be undermined politically.
- forgot_again 6y ago
  We're discussing a recent change in tone, behavior and overall policy. What you're describing is the product of previous administrations working hard to get on (the People's Republic of) China's good side, cozying up to China and trying to integrate it into the Democratic community. This is now precisely what is changing.
- magicsmoke 6y ago
  Because during the cold war Taiwan wasn't nearly big enough to counterbalance the USSR. the PRC was, and when the US got bloodied in Vietnam and needed to pull out they wanted to make sure the USSR couldn't step into the hole they left behind and start pushing across the rest of Southeast Asia. Cue the PRC. Right after the US left, the PRC had their own war with Vietnam because they thought Vietnam was working with the USSR to conquer the rest of Southeast Asia and surround them, and the PRC and the US ended up working to isolate Vietnam over its invasion of Cambodia and put pressure on the USSR. With China holding down the fort in East Asia, the US could pull back its military spending from 10% GDP to 5% GDP in the 70s while the USSR got bankrupted by a new military threat. Doesn't look like US politicians today are willing to throw Eastern Europe under the bus to flip Russia against the PRC like they threw Taiwan under the bus though.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    Even without Russia as a threat, China is incomparable to the USSR. Its productive potential dwarfs that of the US manifold.