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Yep. It's near impossible. Somebody (presumed ex- or current-employee) took handful of iOS devices from our office a few months ago. Changed the password to th

Yep. It's near impossible. Somebody (presumed ex- or current-employee) took handful of iOS devices from our office a few months ago. Changed the password to the Apple ID, added 2FA phone number. The account isn't even deleted, and we can't get back into it. We have a dozen other devices logged into that Apple ID, all prompting for the password. You cannot install updates, you cannot roll back, you cannot log out, you cannot factory reset. Apple have been no help at all. The devices we have that are logged into this account are bricks. Apparently if we have original proof of purchase, we can take them into an Apple store and have it reset. But a lot of our devices are older or were acquired refurb/used - they're used as testing devices. The accounts are locked, they just won't help us get back in, we've tried several times and channels. We've offered to do anything, sign anything, they won't do it. I once went through password/2FA recovery with an Amazon AWS account, and it really wasn't that painless (sign some legal paperwork, show a bunch of documents). We are an unknown startup, but we have generated millions of dollars for Apple over the past decade in App Store cuts. If we can't get back in, I don't know how it'd go for grandma's iPhone.

benhurmarcel 6y ago
> If we can't get back in, I don't know how it'd go for grandma's iPhone. I can tell you about grandpa's iPad. We couldn't find the proof of purchase after he locked his iCloud account (memory isn't great at that age). It's now a paperweight. The lesson is to keep the receipt.
- asiachick 6y ago
  I would say the lesson is call your congressman and pass some laws. Landlords in the USA can't kick people out instantly AFAIK. Banks I'm guessing have regulations that prevent then closing your account and throwing your money in the trash. I'm pretty sure the electric company can't shut off your electricity on a whim. People are dependent on Google and Apple and their devices and services to similar levels. email and messaging services are similar to phone service which is regulated. Apple and Google both provide payment services (Apple Pay, Google Pay) so are providing some of the services a bank offers. Sure they should be able to close problem accounts at some point but IMO they can't just walk away from responsibility based on a one sided TOS.
  - PKop 6y ago
    Good idea, but the lesson there would likely be that the $ trillion corporation owns the politicians, or would have more representation than average person, so recourse through that path is out as well.
    - etrabroline 6y ago
      So are you going to be voting for Joe Biden or Donald Trump?
      - PKop 6y ago
        Neither... maybe Biden simply to shakeup and push further towards an "accelerationist" change of the system (because he won't improve things either). I voted for Trump in '16 to increase manufacturing, close the trade deficit in the midwest, and end neocon wars in the middle east (I fought in Iraq and Afghanistan). I also support restricting immigration, though I know that's controversial around here. In any case, Trump has failed miserably on all counts. He's more concerned with the stock market than almost anything else, and has stacked his administration with neocon retreads, not pulled troops out etc. Unless and until some sort of massive restructuring of our political and monetary system, the whole thing will continue to be controlled by banking and finance. No party serves my interests (a more nationalistic economic and industrial policy, and a more socialistic yet conservative social/cultural policy). We have left wing social culture, and market/finance dominated economic policy. Worst combination in my opinion.
  - e40 6y ago
    Many of those laws you speak of were created in a different era. The last 2 decades have been the time of increased corporate power and reduced individual power. Citizens United, for one.
  - type0 6y ago
    > I'm pretty sure the electric company can't shut off your electricity on a whim. They can absolutely can, albeit by mistake.But it's not comparable to googles and apples, since you get your electricity back just by calling them.
- cosmojg 6y ago
  Actual lesson: don't buy Apple devices. I'm sure a tablet running LineageOS or something similar would serve grandpa just fine, and you'd never have to worry about losing access.
  - jdofaz 6y ago
    Can you give an example of a currently produced tablet someone could buy new and install LineageOS on?
    - 7786655 6y ago
      I checked the website, a Lenovo and two Samsungs are listed as supported and not discontinued.
- bosswipe 6y ago
  Would be worth it to take them to small claims court.
rubatuga 6y ago
This sounds like a feature to me.
randoantimine 6y ago
Not sure if you have tried, but iTunes allows one to do a Device Firmware Update (DFU) of any Apple device with an IPSW file (basically ios firmware) practically making them a brand new device. Although it is a bit of an overkill, because technically you would be overwriting the iOS firmware with a stock one. It does help. I had to use it on my aging iPad 2, a couple of times and haven't face any issues thus far. Here's a couple of links that could help: https://osxdaily.com/2010/11/23/how-to-use-ipsw-files/ https://osxdaily.com/2010/11/23/how-to-use-ipsw-files/ https://osxdaily.com/tag/ipsw/ https://osxdaily.com/tag/ipsw/ https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT201263 https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT201263 https://help.ifixit.com/article/108-dfu-restore https://help.ifixit.com/article/108-dfu-restore

benhurmarcel 6y ago

> If we can't get back in, I don't know how it'd go for grandma's iPhone. I can tell you about grandpa's iPad. We couldn't find the proof of purchase after he locked his iCloud account (memory isn't great at that age). It's now a paperweight. The lesson is to keep the receipt.

asiachick 6y ago
I would say the lesson is call your congressman and pass some laws. Landlords in the USA can't kick people out instantly AFAIK. Banks I'm guessing have regulations that prevent then closing your account and throwing your money in the trash. I'm pretty sure the electric company can't shut off your electricity on a whim. People are dependent on Google and Apple and their devices and services to similar levels. email and messaging services are similar to phone service which is regulated. Apple and Google both provide payment services (Apple Pay, Google Pay) so are providing some of the services a bank offers. Sure they should be able to close problem accounts at some point but IMO they can't just walk away from responsibility based on a one sided TOS.
- PKop 6y ago
  Good idea, but the lesson there would likely be that the $ trillion corporation owns the politicians, or would have more representation than average person, so recourse through that path is out as well.
  - etrabroline 6y ago
    So are you going to be voting for Joe Biden or Donald Trump?
    - PKop 6y ago
      Neither... maybe Biden simply to shakeup and push further towards an "accelerationist" change of the system (because he won't improve things either). I voted for Trump in '16 to increase manufacturing, close the trade deficit in the midwest, and end neocon wars in the middle east (I fought in Iraq and Afghanistan). I also support restricting immigration, though I know that's controversial around here. In any case, Trump has failed miserably on all counts. He's more concerned with the stock market than almost anything else, and has stacked his administration with neocon retreads, not pulled troops out etc. Unless and until some sort of massive restructuring of our political and monetary system, the whole thing will continue to be controlled by banking and finance. No party serves my interests (a more nationalistic economic and industrial policy, and a more socialistic yet conservative social/cultural policy). We have left wing social culture, and market/finance dominated economic policy. Worst combination in my opinion.
- e40 6y ago
  Many of those laws you speak of were created in a different era. The last 2 decades have been the time of increased corporate power and reduced individual power. Citizens United, for one.
- type0 6y ago
  > I'm pretty sure the electric company can't shut off your electricity on a whim. They can absolutely can, albeit by mistake.But it's not comparable to googles and apples, since you get your electricity back just by calling them.
cosmojg 6y ago
Actual lesson: don't buy Apple devices. I'm sure a tablet running LineageOS or something similar would serve grandpa just fine, and you'd never have to worry about losing access.
- jdofaz 6y ago
  Can you give an example of a currently produced tablet someone could buy new and install LineageOS on?
  - 7786655 6y ago
    I checked the website, a Lenovo and two Samsungs are listed as supported and not discontinued.
bosswipe 6y ago
Would be worth it to take them to small claims court.

rubatuga 6y ago

This sounds like a feature to me.

randoantimine 6y ago

Not sure if you have tried, but iTunes allows one to do a Device Firmware Update (DFU) of any Apple device with an IPSW file (basically ios firmware) practically making them a brand new device. Although it is a bit of an overkill, because technically you would be overwriting the iOS firmware with a stock one. It does help. I had to use it on my aging iPad 2, a couple of times and haven't face any issues thus far. Here's a couple of links that could help: https://osxdaily.com/2010/11/23/how-to-use-ipsw-files/ https://osxdaily.com/2010/11/23/how-to-use-ipsw-files/ https://osxdaily.com/tag/ipsw/ https://osxdaily.com/tag/ipsw/ https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT201263 https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT201263 https://help.ifixit.com/article/108-dfu-restore https://help.ifixit.com/article/108-dfu-restore