5 ms·

Underwriters and Short Sellers Manipulate Share Prices

26 points by railing1650 6y ago

lowdose 6y ago
Very annoying font size.
- osamagirl69 6y ago
  Yeah, I ended up using reader mode but somehow all of the pictures got shifted by 1 paragraph. Sill better than the original layout
  - railing1650 6y ago
    were you using a desktop or a phone?
    - osamagirl69 6y ago
      Ubuntu 18.04
sddfd 6y ago
I've followed Bitcoin for a while. What seemed to happens there was the deliberate manipulation of the price using all means available (ads, etc.) The result was a few winning big. I have no reason to believe the same doesn't happen on the real stock market.
- kasey_junk 6y ago
  3 big differences on the “real” stock market: the professionals are more sophisticated, it’s incredibly regulated & litigated, it’s vastly bigger.
slfnflctd 6y ago
This article is about MoviePass, by the way. I don't blame them for trying it. This same model seems to be working out great for car wash subscriptions. Apparently a lot more people are willing to squeeze the most possible value out of watching new movies in the theater than out of getting their cars washed, though. In hindsight, it seems obvious that the former has more pull, but maybe this was not as clear before.
vikramkr 6y ago
What exactly is this part supposed to mean? "There’s something about the look on the guys face on the right though. Something that just kinda….rubs you the wrong way..You seeing what I’m seeing?" This is so weirdly written with all sorts of random asides that makes it hard to take seriously/understand what the point is.
- railing1650 6y ago
  It means he's a crook.
  - vikramkr 6y ago
    And you can tell based on how he looks in an image? What exactly makes him look like a creep, as you state?
    - railing1650 6y ago
      How do I know...???? Is that a serious question.. HMNY was probably the biggest scam of this Trump bull run You software programmers....
vtantia 6y ago
I think it might be a great business model for movie theaters to offer themselves. This would be true especially if their gains from selling subscriptions (and from selling food) outperforms their marginal loss on opening up more shows in theaters. I think the margin loss on opening up shows should be quite low, assuming real estate and buying permission to screen movies be the main cost. I believe the marginal cost of more shows - hiring employees to clean up the seats, manage crowds (including entry / ticket checking), and wear and tear of seats might be relatively lower. The business model just doesn't make sense if you're buying seats at a high cost from cinema theaters, and selling subscription passes. The trump card here would be to get movie chains to offer unlimited seats on your platform in return for a high percentage of the subscription fee. Negotiation skills matter!
chollida1 6y ago
I've read this twice, can anyone actually point out where the article links short sellers and share price manipulation? The closest thing I can see is that the shorts are accused of closing their short position by acquiring shares in a secondary offering, which not only is legal, but also a smart thing to do if you think the offering is priced high and you're short.
- awinder 6y ago
  Oh what, you expected to find a well-argued piece at thefinancialoligarchs.com? This is super-trashy even by lowered standards for some of the financial content that pops up here. Hard flag.
  - railing1650 6y ago
    You just don't trade small caps so you don't appreciate it. Many people loved that article. the antics of HC Wainwright and Co have been known for a long time, but you go to Bloomberg if you want -- I'm sure they'll tell you the truth
- gunshai 6y ago
  I don't blame you, the author miss uses the term short sellers in the beginning then uses it correctly later on. Which is confusing, initially they use the term to mean "any investor selling their shares of stock" which is annoying. Then later they use it correctly WRT a firm needing to buy the shares they sold back to give them back to the original lender, which I assume in this case is Charles Schwab. All in all, this article seems like a rough draft and needs to be proof read. I was REALLY critical and had to really focus to squeeze meaning out.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- railing1650 6y ago
  It's not legal..Look up rule 105
- 6y ago
gunshai 6y ago
"Bears who only consider the math of the business model as it stands today, either don't understand what makes a good investment or have ulterior motives" not quoting the author, but fuck off.
dirtydroog 6y ago
Very angry, but somewhat interesting.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
railing1650 6y ago
So disgusted with the misinformed obtuse responses that I feel I need to defend myself and break down every one "The closest thing I can see is that the shorts are accused of closing their short position by acquiring shares in a secondary offering, which not only is legal, but also a smart thing to do if you think the offering is priced high and you're short." Actually it's not legal. The reason why its not legal is because of what you said in the last sentence. You have to announce an offering beforehand so investors know what's coming. Pumping up the price with foreknowledge of an offering so you can short it to unsuspecting investors is obviously fraudulent. "I don't blame you, the author miss uses the term short sellers in the beginning then uses it correctly later on. Which is confusing, initially they use the term to mean "any investor selling their shares of stock" which is annoying. Then later they use it correctly WRT a firm needing to buy the shares they sold back to give them back to the original lender, which I assume in this case is Charles Schwab." What are you talking about???????????????? There is literally zero truth to that statement at all, and it's the definition of obtuse See this is the problem with micromanaging forums. All the naysayers are completely wrong, and now the post is flagged, even though hundreds of people read it and seemed to enjoy it. Truly sick Oh by the way, nobody knows about Gun and Run. It's a niche industry secret that I just shared with you for free... Truly pathetic and sick that you would flag this
railing1650 6y ago
Who the f downvoted that Pathetic. The internet has been taken over by hoards of self-righteous, naive, know-it-all's from Silicon Valley who for the most part grew up in the Suburbs living sheltered lives...Ideologues who have spent most of their life in school and staring at a computer screen... We are doomed Link to rule 105 https://www.sec.gov/about/offices/ocie/risk-alert-091713-rule105-regm.pdf https://www.sec.gov/about/offices/ocie/risk-alert-091713-rul... Compilation of financial scandals (probably the most extensive online) https://thefinancialoligarchs.com/scandals/ https://thefinancialoligarchs.com/scandals/
railing1650 6y ago
To the Mods Who Blocked this Post "Excellent article. I have been trading large positions since 2008, with a few hundred invested on any given day. I have seen this eveidenced in the real world many, many times. It is easy to verify if you doubt it. Read the filings of people like Empry, Sabby, and track the penny stocks they buy. It’s like clockwork for these guys. This is a MUST READ and should be shared in all of penny land." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23052058 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23052058

26 points by railing1650 6y ago

lowdose 6y ago

Very annoying font size.

osamagirl69 6y ago
Yeah, I ended up using reader mode but somehow all of the pictures got shifted by 1 paragraph. Sill better than the original layout
- railing1650 6y ago
  were you using a desktop or a phone?
  - osamagirl69 6y ago
    Ubuntu 18.04

sddfd 6y ago

I've followed Bitcoin for a while. What seemed to happens there was the deliberate manipulation of the price using all means available (ads, etc.) The result was a few winning big. I have no reason to believe the same doesn't happen on the real stock market.

kasey_junk 6y ago
3 big differences on the “real” stock market: the professionals are more sophisticated, it’s incredibly regulated & litigated, it’s vastly bigger.

slfnflctd 6y ago

This article is about MoviePass, by the way. I don't blame them for trying it. This same model seems to be working out great for car wash subscriptions. Apparently a lot more people are willing to squeeze the most possible value out of watching new movies in the theater than out of getting their cars washed, though. In hindsight, it seems obvious that the former has more pull, but maybe this was not as clear before.

vikramkr 6y ago

What exactly is this part supposed to mean? "There’s something about the look on the guys face on the right though. Something that just kinda….rubs you the wrong way..You seeing what I’m seeing?" This is so weirdly written with all sorts of random asides that makes it hard to take seriously/understand what the point is.

railing1650 6y ago
It means he's a crook.
- vikramkr 6y ago
  And you can tell based on how he looks in an image? What exactly makes him look like a creep, as you state?
  - railing1650 6y ago
    How do I know...???? Is that a serious question.. HMNY was probably the biggest scam of this Trump bull run You software programmers....

vtantia 6y ago

I think it might be a great business model for movie theaters to offer themselves. This would be true especially if their gains from selling subscriptions (and from selling food) outperforms their marginal loss on opening up more shows in theaters. I think the margin loss on opening up shows should be quite low, assuming real estate and buying permission to screen movies be the main cost. I believe the marginal cost of more shows - hiring employees to clean up the seats, manage crowds (including entry / ticket checking), and wear and tear of seats might be relatively lower. The business model just doesn't make sense if you're buying seats at a high cost from cinema theaters, and selling subscription passes. The trump card here would be to get movie chains to offer unlimited seats on your platform in return for a high percentage of the subscription fee. Negotiation skills matter!

chollida1 6y ago

I've read this twice, can anyone actually point out where the article links short sellers and share price manipulation? The closest thing I can see is that the shorts are accused of closing their short position by acquiring shares in a secondary offering, which not only is legal, but also a smart thing to do if you think the offering is priced high and you're short.

awinder 6y ago
Oh what, you expected to find a well-argued piece at thefinancialoligarchs.com? This is super-trashy even by lowered standards for some of the financial content that pops up here. Hard flag.
- railing1650 6y ago
  You just don't trade small caps so you don't appreciate it. Many people loved that article. the antics of HC Wainwright and Co have been known for a long time, but you go to Bloomberg if you want -- I'm sure they'll tell you the truth
gunshai 6y ago
I don't blame you, the author miss uses the term short sellers in the beginning then uses it correctly later on. Which is confusing, initially they use the term to mean "any investor selling their shares of stock" which is annoying. Then later they use it correctly WRT a firm needing to buy the shares they sold back to give them back to the original lender, which I assume in this case is Charles Schwab. All in all, this article seems like a rough draft and needs to be proof read. I was REALLY critical and had to really focus to squeeze meaning out.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
railing1650 6y ago
It's not legal..Look up rule 105
6y ago

gunshai 6y ago

"Bears who only consider the math of the business model as it stands today, either don't understand what makes a good investment or have ulterior motives" not quoting the author, but fuck off.

dirtydroog 6y ago

Very angry, but somewhat interesting.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

railing1650 6y ago

So disgusted with the misinformed obtuse responses that I feel I need to defend myself and break down every one "The closest thing I can see is that the shorts are accused of closing their short position by acquiring shares in a secondary offering, which not only is legal, but also a smart thing to do if you think the offering is priced high and you're short." Actually it's not legal. The reason why its not legal is because of what you said in the last sentence. You have to announce an offering beforehand so investors know what's coming. Pumping up the price with foreknowledge of an offering so you can short it to unsuspecting investors is obviously fraudulent. "I don't blame you, the author miss uses the term short sellers in the beginning then uses it correctly later on. Which is confusing, initially they use the term to mean "any investor selling their shares of stock" which is annoying. Then later they use it correctly WRT a firm needing to buy the shares they sold back to give them back to the original lender, which I assume in this case is Charles Schwab." What are you talking about???????????????? There is literally zero truth to that statement at all, and it's the definition of obtuse See this is the problem with micromanaging forums. All the naysayers are completely wrong, and now the post is flagged, even though hundreds of people read it and seemed to enjoy it. Truly sick Oh by the way, nobody knows about Gun and Run. It's a niche industry secret that I just shared with you for free... Truly pathetic and sick that you would flag this

railing1650 6y ago

Who the f downvoted that Pathetic. The internet has been taken over by hoards of self-righteous, naive, know-it-all's from Silicon Valley who for the most part grew up in the Suburbs living sheltered lives...Ideologues who have spent most of their life in school and staring at a computer screen... We are doomed Link to rule 105 https://www.sec.gov/about/offices/ocie/risk-alert-091713-rule105-regm.pdf https://www.sec.gov/about/offices/ocie/risk-alert-091713-rul... Compilation of financial scandals (probably the most extensive online) https://thefinancialoligarchs.com/scandals/ https://thefinancialoligarchs.com/scandals/

railing1650 6y ago

To the Mods Who Blocked this Post "Excellent article. I have been trading large positions since 2008, with a few hundred invested on any given day. I have seen this eveidenced in the real world many, many times. It is easy to verify if you doubt it. Read the filings of people like Empry, Sabby, and track the penny stocks they buy. It’s like clockwork for these guys. This is a MUST READ and should be shared in all of penny land." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23052058 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23052058