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I understand your sentiment and I’m sure you’re well meaning. But Asian Americans are one of the most diverse groups, it’s a huge part of the world and part of

I understand your sentiment and I’m sure you’re well meaning. But Asian Americans are one of the most diverse groups, it’s a huge part of the world and part of the problem is people assuming all Asian Americans are the same personality

woofie11 6y ago
I'm not assuming that. I'm assuming many people of WASP descent are put off by differences from their culture. That assumption us backed by plenty of scientific research and supported by plenty of personal observation. That's why in my post I mentioned Africa (which is as diverse as Asia) and Eastern Europe (which is the same skin color). That's discriminatory, but different in how it plays out than discrimination on skin color. If I receive a resume from an equally-qualified Nigerian and an equally-qualified American of Anglo-Saxon descent, unless the Nigerian was able to seamlessly code-shift, the language WILL be subtly or significantly different. Unless you make explicit cultural allowances for that, that WILL bias me towards the individual of Anglo-Saxon descent.
- ericmay 6y ago
  Isn’t your observation to be expected? I’d say this is would be true even across countries such as the UK and Australia with a shares language, never mind most of the rest of the world. In general, even within groups you’ll have bias whether it’s conscious or not, irrespective of race. An American-born person of Indian decent would potentially be more likely to get hired than a white Australian. I think you can explain a lot of this without dancing around racism without saying it. Do you not think the same thing happens in every other country on the planet? If we think through what you’ve written here, even differences between groups of WASP will prove out a bias. Maybe it’s education level, or someone uses a word that my favorite football coach uses (and they like it too since we are from a more similar background) etc. Was your expectation that this doesn’t play out elsewhere? Do you think the same thing wouldn’t happen in Tokyo, or Toronto?
  - woofie11 6y ago
    It is expected, and it is almost everywhere. If I go to China, Korea, or Japan, I'll be really disadvantaged because of my cultural background, much more so than in America. In India and some parts of Africa, I'll actually have an advantage because of the biases there. But that doesn't mean it's good. OP ought to be able to find a job based on their skills, not based on their culture. And people should have enough cross-cultural competency to be able to adapt to a manager or employee with a subtly or significantly different cultural background. It's especially not good in America, which has an identity as a melding pot, and where most people are either immigrant or of immigrant descent of some sort (except those whose ancestors crossed over the Bering Straight). As a footnote, every single one of my comments in this thread was "cancelled" (many downvotes, without any constructive comments, most likely by someone with multiple accounts or with bots). The ones which were +4 are now down too. I don't really care about up/down-votes, but it's a growing problem on HN. At some point, it will become reddit.
    - ericmay 6y ago
      I'm not sure if it isn't good. Of course discrimination based on race/sex/creed/etc. is going bad in almost all cases, but I think at some level you need people who have some measure of cultural similarity, don't you? And by selecting any amount of cultural similarity you're admitting an inherent bias. At what point do you get diminishing returns on focusing on reducing bias, or at one point do you actually make things worse for the sake of eliminating bias? I'd argue if you eliminate all bias, you'd eliminate any variation in culture. I agree with you that you should be able to find a job based on your skills, and others should be able to tolerate your culture, but I think a lot of the action around this is extremely superficial and not well-thought. Believe it or not, I actually find that I have less cultural navigation working with Indian engineers than I do with religious white people in the United States. I don't think this whole thing is so focused on WASP - vs others, and spending so much time on it is quite shallow. People who focus on that so much I think, largely, haven't been exposed to much of the world. I also think that focusing on the United States as a nation of immigrants is kind of weak. In a global society I think we need to apply these standards everywhere. Brasil is a nation of immigrants, too. Should only the United States focus on reducing bias because it's "a nation of immigrants"? Why shouldn't Japan focus on this? Russia? Ethiopia? For the record, I'm responding you with some of my own real thoughts here and not trying to "cancel" anything. I don't believe in that. :)

woofie11 6y ago

I'm not assuming that. I'm assuming many people of WASP descent are put off by differences from their culture. That assumption us backed by plenty of scientific research and supported by plenty of personal observation. That's why in my post I mentioned Africa (which is as diverse as Asia) and Eastern Europe (which is the same skin color). That's discriminatory, but different in how it plays out than discrimination on skin color. If I receive a resume from an equally-qualified Nigerian and an equally-qualified American of Anglo-Saxon descent, unless the Nigerian was able to seamlessly code-shift, the language WILL be subtly or significantly different. Unless you make explicit cultural allowances for that, that WILL bias me towards the individual of Anglo-Saxon descent.

ericmay 6y ago
Isn’t your observation to be expected? I’d say this is would be true even across countries such as the UK and Australia with a shares language, never mind most of the rest of the world. In general, even within groups you’ll have bias whether it’s conscious or not, irrespective of race. An American-born person of Indian decent would potentially be more likely to get hired than a white Australian. I think you can explain a lot of this without dancing around racism without saying it. Do you not think the same thing happens in every other country on the planet? If we think through what you’ve written here, even differences between groups of WASP will prove out a bias. Maybe it’s education level, or someone uses a word that my favorite football coach uses (and they like it too since we are from a more similar background) etc. Was your expectation that this doesn’t play out elsewhere? Do you think the same thing wouldn’t happen in Tokyo, or Toronto?
- woofie11 6y ago
  It is expected, and it is almost everywhere. If I go to China, Korea, or Japan, I'll be really disadvantaged because of my cultural background, much more so than in America. In India and some parts of Africa, I'll actually have an advantage because of the biases there. But that doesn't mean it's good. OP ought to be able to find a job based on their skills, not based on their culture. And people should have enough cross-cultural competency to be able to adapt to a manager or employee with a subtly or significantly different cultural background. It's especially not good in America, which has an identity as a melding pot, and where most people are either immigrant or of immigrant descent of some sort (except those whose ancestors crossed over the Bering Straight). As a footnote, every single one of my comments in this thread was "cancelled" (many downvotes, without any constructive comments, most likely by someone with multiple accounts or with bots). The ones which were +4 are now down too. I don't really care about up/down-votes, but it's a growing problem on HN. At some point, it will become reddit.
  - ericmay 6y ago
    I'm not sure if it isn't good. Of course discrimination based on race/sex/creed/etc. is going bad in almost all cases, but I think at some level you need people who have some measure of cultural similarity, don't you? And by selecting any amount of cultural similarity you're admitting an inherent bias. At what point do you get diminishing returns on focusing on reducing bias, or at one point do you actually make things worse for the sake of eliminating bias? I'd argue if you eliminate all bias, you'd eliminate any variation in culture. I agree with you that you should be able to find a job based on your skills, and others should be able to tolerate your culture, but I think a lot of the action around this is extremely superficial and not well-thought. Believe it or not, I actually find that I have less cultural navigation working with Indian engineers than I do with religious white people in the United States. I don't think this whole thing is so focused on WASP - vs others, and spending so much time on it is quite shallow. People who focus on that so much I think, largely, haven't been exposed to much of the world. I also think that focusing on the United States as a nation of immigrants is kind of weak. In a global society I think we need to apply these standards everywhere. Brasil is a nation of immigrants, too. Should only the United States focus on reducing bias because it's "a nation of immigrants"? Why shouldn't Japan focus on this? Russia? Ethiopia? For the record, I'm responding you with some of my own real thoughts here and not trying to "cancel" anything. I don't believe in that. :)