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You should know that this is not a grass root movement rather someone astroturfing. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/04/whos-behind-the-reopen-domain-surge/ ht

You should know that this is not a grass root movement rather someone astroturfing. https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/04/whos-behind-the-reopen-domain-surge/ https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/04/whos-behind-the-reopen-d... https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/salvadorhernandez/coronavirus-quarantine-protests-facebook-groups https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/salvadorhernandez/coron... Also take a look at this Reddit comment https://www.reddit.com/r/maryland/comments/g3niq3/comment/fnstpyl https://www.reddit.com/r/maryland/comments/g3niq3/comment/fn... If you don't trust BuzzFeed you can go look at the domain registration information for open[enter state name].com domains.

bpodgursky 6y ago
No, it's a guy in Florida who went through and parked a bunch of domains with the same pattern. Maybe because he believed in the cause, and maybe because he wanted to make a few quick bucks. "Astroturfing" would be when paid shills or robots spam FCC comment boards. It's not astroturfing when thousands of genuine supporters of a cause show up at a protest, whether or not there is coordination (surprise, all protests need coordination). Trying to turn this into a sinister conspiracy -- and not genuine discontent -- is a cheap mental shortcut which lets you discount that a lot of people feel differently than you.
- phakding 6y ago
  Did you even read the links I posted?
  - recursive 6y ago
    Your reddit link includes photos of real people at a demonstration. Astro-turfing wouldn't produce that, unless they were paid actors.
    - p1necone 6y ago
      Astroturfing influences other peoples behaviour - that's the whole point.
      - recursive 6y ago
        In that case, it seems a little trickier to distinguish astroturfing vs. something I just personally do not agree with.
  - x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
    No. They aren't going to read the links because they fall on the side of the protesters and astro-turfers ideologically.
    - bpodgursky 6y ago
      I read the links, and like I said in the original comment, I think it's very disingenuous to equate "national political organization with real human supporters" with "artificial or paid shills" You could use that logic to brand the ACLU or other civil rights organizations "astroturfers", because they are trying to coordinate or bootstrap local movements. Do you think that Black Lives Matter protests have to independently, randomly coalesce in cities for them to be real movements? Obviously not. Social change is hard, and claiming "oh, but there's someone out-of-state helping them organize" is just a cheap way to invalidate any protest you don't like. It's no better than Putin branding all NGOs as "foreign agents", to trash any civil society the Kremlin doesn't like. We can do better.
- ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
  Read the Krebs link. Follow the Florida guy's phone number...
  - kds3 6y ago
    Florida guy's phone number is registered in Jacksonville, FL (same with WHOIS records) [0]. Brian probably made a mistake, happens to everyone. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22931919 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22931919
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
dmoy 6y ago
Oh wow, the "COVID-19 IS A LIE" sign being held by someone wearing a protective mask. Charitably, maybe it's just to disguise themselves? I don't see how that's astroturfing though, unless they're being paid to show up? Seems unlikely?
chrisco255 6y ago
This is not astroturfing. I saw the protest in Austin this weekend. 22 million people have been laid off in the last 4 weeks. I've seen the footage of tens of thousands lining up at food banks across the country. This is just getting started.
- hckr_news 6y ago
  Valid point. Millions are being affected by this shut-in. So what do you suggest? Re-open the country and have a free for all?
- phakding 6y ago
  I don't see the link here. Yes there are 22 million laid off. But given a choice between being alive and being jobless, I think people would choose being jobless. The people protesting are not the same people lining up at food banks. I have seen wapo video of Michigan protest. People there were angry because they want to get their hair done or buy paint and fertilizer. They want others to go to work to they can stay home.
  - pacala 6y ago
    The disease does not affect age groups equally. From what I've seen, most victims are in the 60+ age groups. From NYC fatality report [0]: 0-9: 1 0% 10-19: 6 0.1% 20-29: 56 0.4% 30-39: 227 1.6% 40-49: 535 3.7% 50-59: 1410 9.8% 60-69: 2863 20.0% 70-79: 3811 26.6% 80-89: 1753 25.4% 90+: 12.2% Think of people having a "vitality score" that decreases with age, and of disease as a stressor that kills people with the "vitality score" under a certain threshold. That's how the yearly flu works, by culling people under the threshold. We attribute the death to "the flu", but we could easily also call it "death by old age". Most working age people will be just fine. Except they are jobless. Terrible times. [0] https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Track...
    - phakding 6y ago
tomcam 6y ago
It's astroturfing, but astroturfing organizations have the same free speech rights as any other party: unions, NGOs, nonprofits, and evil corporations.
wyager 6y ago
Are you implying that the "other side", insofar as it exists, is a grassroots movement? That seems to be the implication of pointing out that people who want to reopen the economy aren't grassroots.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
TechBro8615 6y ago
It's only "astroturfing" insofar as at least some of these protests are part of an organized drive to protest. I think you'll find that most protests entail some level of organization. Do you think black lives matter protests or women's march protests are "grassroots?" Would you be surprised to learn they are also backed by organizers?
- perl4ever 6y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were also backed by the same organizers. It would match the push-pull dynamic I imagine I see with online controversy. Not to mention the reported activity on Facebook and elsewhere around the 2016 elections.
jariel 6y ago
"this is not a grass root movement " This is a deeply disingenuous statement and essentially false. a) The protestors at the rallies clearly believe in their cause. You can't delegitimize their opinion. b) CNN just published a study showing 2/3 worried about opening to early 1/3 worried about not opening soon enough. That's 100M Americans, out of them it only takes a few to be very concerned. The snippets from a recent protest of individuals describing how they are going out of business, will lose their livelihoods, homes and going destitute cannot be dismissed. S. Korea has no lock-down with tracing. Sweden has no lock-down and is going 'kind of ok'. It's deeply disturbing to see major companies suppress individuals' right to reasonable expression and it's not helpful to diminish their views just because a few idiots in Russia may like it. The protests are fine, except for all the guns, which is a little spooky.

bpodgursky 6y ago

No, it's a guy in Florida who went through and parked a bunch of domains with the same pattern. Maybe because he believed in the cause, and maybe because he wanted to make a few quick bucks. "Astroturfing" would be when paid shills or robots spam FCC comment boards. It's not astroturfing when thousands of genuine supporters of a cause show up at a protest, whether or not there is coordination (surprise, all protests need coordination). Trying to turn this into a sinister conspiracy -- and not genuine discontent -- is a cheap mental shortcut which lets you discount that a lot of people feel differently than you.

phakding 6y ago
Did you even read the links I posted?
- recursive 6y ago
  Your reddit link includes photos of real people at a demonstration. Astro-turfing wouldn't produce that, unless they were paid actors.
  - p1necone 6y ago
    Astroturfing influences other peoples behaviour - that's the whole point.
    - recursive 6y ago
      In that case, it seems a little trickier to distinguish astroturfing vs. something I just personally do not agree with.
- x86_64Ubuntu 6y ago
  No. They aren't going to read the links because they fall on the side of the protesters and astro-turfers ideologically.
  - bpodgursky 6y ago
    I read the links, and like I said in the original comment, I think it's very disingenuous to equate "national political organization with real human supporters" with "artificial or paid shills" You could use that logic to brand the ACLU or other civil rights organizations "astroturfers", because they are trying to coordinate or bootstrap local movements. Do you think that Black Lives Matter protests have to independently, randomly coalesce in cities for them to be real movements? Obviously not. Social change is hard, and claiming "oh, but there's someone out-of-state helping them organize" is just a cheap way to invalidate any protest you don't like. It's no better than Putin branding all NGOs as "foreign agents", to trash any civil society the Kremlin doesn't like. We can do better.
ThePowerOfFuet 6y ago
Read the Krebs link. Follow the Florida guy's phone number...
- kds3 6y ago
  Florida guy's phone number is registered in Jacksonville, FL (same with WHOIS records) [0]. Brian probably made a mistake, happens to everyone. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22931919 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22931919
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

dmoy 6y ago

Oh wow, the "COVID-19 IS A LIE" sign being held by someone wearing a protective mask. Charitably, maybe it's just to disguise themselves? I don't see how that's astroturfing though, unless they're being paid to show up? Seems unlikely?

chrisco255 6y ago

This is not astroturfing. I saw the protest in Austin this weekend. 22 million people have been laid off in the last 4 weeks. I've seen the footage of tens of thousands lining up at food banks across the country. This is just getting started.

hckr_news 6y ago
Valid point. Millions are being affected by this shut-in. So what do you suggest? Re-open the country and have a free for all?
phakding 6y ago
I don't see the link here. Yes there are 22 million laid off. But given a choice between being alive and being jobless, I think people would choose being jobless. The people protesting are not the same people lining up at food banks. I have seen wapo video of Michigan protest. People there were angry because they want to get their hair done or buy paint and fertilizer. They want others to go to work to they can stay home.
- pacala 6y ago
  The disease does not affect age groups equally. From what I've seen, most victims are in the 60+ age groups. From NYC fatality report [0]: 0-9: 1 0% 10-19: 6 0.1% 20-29: 56 0.4% 30-39: 227 1.6% 40-49: 535 3.7% 50-59: 1410 9.8% 60-69: 2863 20.0% 70-79: 3811 26.6% 80-89: 1753 25.4% 90+: 12.2% Think of people having a "vitality score" that decreases with age, and of disease as a stressor that kills people with the "vitality score" under a certain threshold. That's how the yearly flu works, by culling people under the threshold. We attribute the death to "the flu", but we could easily also call it "death by old age". Most working age people will be just fine. Except they are jobless. Terrible times. [0] https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Track...
  - phakding 6y ago

tomcam 6y ago

It's astroturfing, but astroturfing organizations have the same free speech rights as any other party: unions, NGOs, nonprofits, and evil corporations.

wyager 6y ago

Are you implying that the "other side", insofar as it exists, is a grassroots movement? That seems to be the implication of pointing out that people who want to reopen the economy aren't grassroots.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

TechBro8615 6y ago

It's only "astroturfing" insofar as at least some of these protests are part of an organized drive to protest. I think you'll find that most protests entail some level of organization. Do you think black lives matter protests or women's march protests are "grassroots?" Would you be surprised to learn they are also backed by organizers?

perl4ever 6y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were also backed by the same organizers. It would match the push-pull dynamic I imagine I see with online controversy. Not to mention the reported activity on Facebook and elsewhere around the 2016 elections.

jariel 6y ago

"this is not a grass root movement " This is a deeply disingenuous statement and essentially false. a) The protestors at the rallies clearly believe in their cause. You can't delegitimize their opinion. b) CNN just published a study showing 2/3 worried about opening to early 1/3 worried about not opening soon enough. That's 100M Americans, out of them it only takes a few to be very concerned. The snippets from a recent protest of individuals describing how they are going out of business, will lose their livelihoods, homes and going destitute cannot be dismissed. S. Korea has no lock-down with tracing. Sweden has no lock-down and is going 'kind of ok'. It's deeply disturbing to see major companies suppress individuals' right to reasonable expression and it's not helpful to diminish their views just because a few idiots in Russia may like it. The protests are fine, except for all the guns, which is a little spooky.