8 ms·

We need to talk about AirPods Pro

125 points by dmvinson 6y ago

snapetom 6y ago
I can't imagine Scenario #1 being the issue. It should have been the first thing they looked at when designing it. If it is, it's a new level of terrible QA that Apple has been plagued with in recent years. My lack of faith in humanity can see #4. Another great thing nerfed by dumb people. Regardless, the firmware releases are an embarassing fiasco that demonstrates a lack of coordination and communication within Apple.
- craftinator 6y ago
  I can. Make a big splash with amazing ANC at launch, hope news media picks up stories about how awesome it is, then nerf it before that same media starts picking up stories about the crappy battery life.
ed 6y ago
> We need I think this problem is pretty far down the list of World’s Top Problems
- minimaxir 6y ago
  It would have made a good B-plot on Silicon Valley. :)
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- netsharc 6y ago
  It's an interesting hardware bug, but the author's writing and saying "This story should not be allowed to die" makes me see him as a huge self-important first world prick.
danlugo92 6y ago
> AirPods firmware updates happen automatically. And unlike with iOS and macOS updates, they can’t be stopped. You’re getting the update whether you like it or not.
JCharante 6y ago
I'm personally a fan of the conspiracy theory that because multiple ANC products have had their abilities reduced in firmware updates over the past couple years, research teams have been independently finding out that user's hearing are being damaged by highly effective ANC and have had to turn them down without admitting fault. Although I'm not even sure if that's how sound waves work, and recently there was Bose's investigation into their firmware update that didn't actually reduce their ANC despite user perspective. It's a fun theory up there with the fake existence of Finland.
- jdashg 6y ago
  This feels super-plausible to me, and it's something they would never, ever admit.
  - valuearb 6y ago
    Lol, it’s the worst conspiracy theory ever, that a lack of noise damages eardrums.
- skrebbel 6y ago
  Googled it so you don't have to: ANC in this case appears to stand for Active Noise Control, i.e. noise-cancelling headphones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control
- russellbeattie 6y ago
  The other option is that Bose, Sony or some other high-end audio company has a patent on whatever noise cancellation system was in place originally. A decision was made to avoid a legal battle (or a deal fell through at the last minute) and the feature was nerfed until Apple can strong arm the patent holder into a better deal.
  - jmole 6y ago
    this is exactly what happened.
_bxg1 6y ago
I got mine in December (I believe this means I had the "bad" firmware), but I still loved them immediately. However, about 1 month later I noticed that noise cancelling (and passthrough as well, which was even more annoying) wasn't really working on one side. I tried factory-resetting them, tried everything I could think of, and nothing helped. So I scheduled an Apple Store appointment. To Apple's credit, they replaced the one on the side that wasn't working, for free, with very few questions asked. However, that's when things got weird. Now the older one wasn't cancelling/passing-through as well as the brand new one. It was doing something, just not as much, which led to a really distracting audible asymmetry. This was confirmed by the fit test not working in just that one ear. Again I tried updating the firmware, factory-resetting, etc. Eventually I found this thread on MacRumors: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/airpod-pro-ear-tip-fit-test-not-working-not-the-only-one.2208392/post-27997343 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/airpod-pro-ear-tip-fit-... tl;dr, it seems that some of the meshed gaps/microphones the Airpods Pro use to calibrate their various special audio features get very easily clogged by ear wax, skin oil, etc. And they're extremely sensitive to this, to the point where you have to clean them out very frequently to prevent degradation. I went through and rigorously cleaned them - rubbing alcohol, cotton swaps, etc. - and even then mine still have problems. The only way I can prevent the asymmetry it is to turn off the "active sound" features altogether. But this means that not only don't I get full noise-cancelling, I can't even safely use them just to listen to music in any spaces where I need to be able to hear my surroundings. They are now worse than the regular Airpods that I gave up when I got them. This is completely unacceptable for a product that costs $250, but at this point I'm exasperated. I'm tired of going to the Apple Store, and it's presumably not even open right now with the virus going. I wish I could just turn them in and get a refund, but I think it's been too long. If I could do that I'd probably even buy a new pair of the regular ones and just go back to those; mine had worked mostly without problems for over a year. At this point I don't know what to do about it all except hope there's a recall-like process like they did with the butterfly keyboards.
- kylehotchkiss 6y ago
  Some credit cards offer extended warranties - maybe worth a look if the card you purchased with offers some sort of purchase protection. You'd need the receipt, of course.
joshstrange 6y ago
Mine are on 2B588 and I think I bought them late enough that I never even had the original firmware to compare. I do know that when I first put them in I thought the power went out in my house (due the sudden lack of noise). I would like to know if I'm crazy or if these don't stay in ears well at all. Kind of the opposite of what you would expect from an earpod like this but I can get them to fall out in <10 seconds when eating with them in. Even when I'm not moving my jaw they have a habit of slowly sliding out. And before I get asked about tip size, I've tried all of them and done fit tests on all of them. Fit tests always pass, and the pods always fall out. I even tried different sizes on different ears over time to compare the two but they seem to fall out at the same rate. I just (like as in 2 hours ago) broke down and bought some foam tips from Amazon to see if that helps. It's really disappointing because my original AirPods were so magical and now I kind of don't like wearing the Pro's. I've considered more than once just buying AirPod 2's and giving up.
- GraemeL 6y ago
  I've had problems with pretty much every in-ear bud I've had up until I bought the AirPod Pro's. Not had a single time when I've felt they have even started to come loose. I wear them with the stalks pointing forward at around 45 degrees.
- gingerlime 6y ago
  I have the same problem, although perhaps not as severe. I feel like they’re falling off and have to adjust them. Also tried all tip sizes and they all test as good fit as well, which is odd. All my previous in-ear felt like they fit better and also seal the noise out better naturally (without any noise cancellation) But my biggest disappointment is the mic quality with my MacBook. Apparently some limitation in Bluetooth or something? No idea but mic sounds like crap. Works great on the phone but I hardly talk on my phone ...
- novok 6y ago
  I think it's a break in issue. When you first get them the tips are stiffer and not covered in ear wax. As usage increases the rubber becomes more pliable (because it's so thin) and becomes covered with a layer of ear wax over time, causing lower friction and thus a higher probability of fall out.
jiofih 6y ago
> I actually told myself I would need to be extra careful from now on crossing the road. The noise cancellation was so good, I thought I might be hit by a car. Sounds like the author hasn’t ever used any other good ANC cans? Both the Bose and Sony pose the same hazard.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
someonehere 6y ago
Maybe litigation about the earbuds being too quiet might happen if someone doesn’t hear something behind them like a car horn or oncoming something. I used to wear noise cancelling headphones while walking to work in downtown SF. It was too much cancellation that bothered me because I couldn’t hear anything approaching me from behind. I can easily see the opposite happen if someone was killed with the OG firmware. “Are AirPods too quiet? Do they put you at risk?”
- novok 6y ago
  Wouldn't that also apply to earplugs?
  - someonehere 6y ago
    I don’t know. I’m not Apple’s lawyers. I would assume wearing earplugs you have the intent of reducing the sound coming in. AirPods you are blocking external sound and replacing it with audio of some sort. With earplugs you could still hear things but at a reduced level. AirPods you’re covering up and external sound that could come through.
herval 6y ago
I got a pair of Pros as soon as they came out. The fit was weird (maybe I got used to regular Airpods), but what made me return them is I ALWAYS got nausea after a few minutes with the noise cancelling turned on. It’s anecdotal of course, but maybe there was something on v1 that added latency/something to the external noise, thus inducing motion sickness? (Never got to try the new firmware to confirm the theory)
jpalomaki 6y ago
There has been also some comments about people feeling "pressure" with the noise cancelling headphones. Couple of old articles mentioning this [1] and [2]. It's not about pressure as having something tucked into your ears, but related to the noise cancelling: "You may notice a pressure-like feeling in your ears when you first put noise-cancelling headphones on, like when you want to 'pop' your ears. This is caused by your brain perceiving the lack of low low-frequency sound as a pressure differential between your inner and outer ear, just like when you ascend in an airplane." If you search for Airpods and pressure, there are also comments on Reddit etc. I did not investigate if those are referring to this phenomenon. Something like this could explain why Apple would like to tweak with the noise cancelling. [1]https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/did-you-know-technology/noise-cancelling-headphones https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/did-you-know-technology/no... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/technology/personaltech/03pogue.html?mtrref=www.google.com https://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/technology/personaltech/0...
- traspler 6y ago
  I have this problem with noise canceling headphones. When I first tried the Bose headphones, I immediately felt an uncomfortable pressure on my ear drums. I can only wear them in airplanes and have to take breaks. I tried other headphones and none are perfect for me but I did buy the Sennheiser ones. It has okay noise canceling with only minimal pressure for me and with stellar audio performance. The noise canceling is noticeably worse than the Bose's but at least I can wear them longer. I also tried the AirPod Pros when they came out and felt very little pressure so from that angle I would have been comfortable with wearing them for an extended period. (I can't say for sure but it might not have been the launch firmware) As with all Apple headphones they just don't stay in my ears so sadly I passed them up.
thefabsta 6y ago
I've bought AirPods Pro in early November right after they were released. From my personal experience, the background firmware updates have had a very noticeable effect. I can attest to the perceived weakening of ANC (as opposed to the initial firmware) the article mentions. One firmware update has even rendered one of my AirPods Pro practically unusable due to a strange clicking noise that would occur whenever I was walking/running with ANC enabled, likely due to accelerations acting upon it. I was convinced it was a hardware fault and was ready to return them until another firmware update fixed the problem (until now at least).
windex 6y ago
Ive stopped buying anything with non replaceable batteries after noticing how much junk I accumulated just coz the batteries died. Anyone know of good bluetooth receivers (the types that clip to your pocket) that take an AA or AAA battery? I am just absolutely fed up of the battery situation. By the time the devices are broken in and you are comfortable, it's time to buy another pair. I am not that rich.
traspler 6y ago
I never noticed the "whoosh" silence with the AirPod Pros when I tried them BUT I noticed something like that on my iPhone XR. Sometimes when I am on a call and hold/press the phone to my ear in a certain way I have the sensation of losing most of my hearing in that ear with only the voice remaining. The sensation never lasts longer than a couple of seconds but it's only on phone calls that I ever noticed this. I never had that with any other smartphone, even ones claiming to have noise canceling during calls. Reading this article makes me belobe that the iPhone still has the original AirPod ANC which is just less effective due to the bad seal. Did anyone else notice this?

125 points by dmvinson 6y ago

I can't imagine Scenario #1 being the issue. It should have been the first thing they looked at when designing it. If it is, it's a new level of terrible QA that Apple has been plagued with in recent years. My lack of faith in humanity can see #4. Another great thing nerfed by dumb people. Regardless, the firmware releases are an embarassing fiasco that demonstrates a lack of coordination and communication within Apple.

craftinator 6y ago
I can. Make a big splash with amazing ANC at launch, hope news media picks up stories about how awesome it is, then nerf it before that same media starts picking up stories about the crappy battery life.

ed 6y ago

> We need I think this problem is pretty far down the list of World’s Top Problems

minimaxir 6y ago
It would have made a good B-plot on Silicon Valley. :)
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
netsharc 6y ago
It's an interesting hardware bug, but the author's writing and saying "This story should not be allowed to die" makes me see him as a huge self-important first world prick.

danlugo92 6y ago

> AirPods firmware updates happen automatically. And unlike with iOS and macOS updates, they can’t be stopped. You’re getting the update whether you like it or not.

JCharante 6y ago

I'm personally a fan of the conspiracy theory that because multiple ANC products have had their abilities reduced in firmware updates over the past couple years, research teams have been independently finding out that user's hearing are being damaged by highly effective ANC and have had to turn them down without admitting fault. Although I'm not even sure if that's how sound waves work, and recently there was Bose's investigation into their firmware update that didn't actually reduce their ANC despite user perspective. It's a fun theory up there with the fake existence of Finland.

jdashg 6y ago
This feels super-plausible to me, and it's something they would never, ever admit.
- valuearb 6y ago
  Lol, it’s the worst conspiracy theory ever, that a lack of noise damages eardrums.
skrebbel 6y ago
Googled it so you don't have to: ANC in this case appears to stand for Active Noise Control, i.e. noise-cancelling headphones https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_noise_control
russellbeattie 6y ago
The other option is that Bose, Sony or some other high-end audio company has a patent on whatever noise cancellation system was in place originally. A decision was made to avoid a legal battle (or a deal fell through at the last minute) and the feature was nerfed until Apple can strong arm the patent holder into a better deal.
- jmole 6y ago
  this is exactly what happened.

_bxg1 6y ago

I got mine in December (I believe this means I had the "bad" firmware), but I still loved them immediately. However, about 1 month later I noticed that noise cancelling (and passthrough as well, which was even more annoying) wasn't really working on one side. I tried factory-resetting them, tried everything I could think of, and nothing helped. So I scheduled an Apple Store appointment. To Apple's credit, they replaced the one on the side that wasn't working, for free, with very few questions asked. However, that's when things got weird. Now the older one wasn't cancelling/passing-through as well as the brand new one. It was doing something, just not as much, which led to a really distracting audible asymmetry. This was confirmed by the fit test not working in just that one ear. Again I tried updating the firmware, factory-resetting, etc. Eventually I found this thread on MacRumors: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/airpod-pro-ear-tip-fit-test-not-working-not-the-only-one.2208392/post-27997343 https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/airpod-pro-ear-tip-fit-... tl;dr, it seems that some of the meshed gaps/microphones the Airpods Pro use to calibrate their various special audio features get very easily clogged by ear wax, skin oil, etc. And they're extremely sensitive to this, to the point where you have to clean them out very frequently to prevent degradation. I went through and rigorously cleaned them - rubbing alcohol, cotton swaps, etc. - and even then mine still have problems. The only way I can prevent the asymmetry it is to turn off the "active sound" features altogether. But this means that not only don't I get full noise-cancelling, I can't even safely use them just to listen to music in any spaces where I need to be able to hear my surroundings. They are now worse than the regular Airpods that I gave up when I got them. This is completely unacceptable for a product that costs $250, but at this point I'm exasperated. I'm tired of going to the Apple Store, and it's presumably not even open right now with the virus going. I wish I could just turn them in and get a refund, but I think it's been too long. If I could do that I'd probably even buy a new pair of the regular ones and just go back to those; mine had worked mostly without problems for over a year. At this point I don't know what to do about it all except hope there's a recall-like process like they did with the butterfly keyboards.

kylehotchkiss 6y ago
Some credit cards offer extended warranties - maybe worth a look if the card you purchased with offers some sort of purchase protection. You'd need the receipt, of course.

joshstrange 6y ago

Mine are on 2B588 and I think I bought them late enough that I never even had the original firmware to compare. I do know that when I first put them in I thought the power went out in my house (due the sudden lack of noise). I would like to know if I'm crazy or if these don't stay in ears well at all. Kind of the opposite of what you would expect from an earpod like this but I can get them to fall out in <10 seconds when eating with them in. Even when I'm not moving my jaw they have a habit of slowly sliding out. And before I get asked about tip size, I've tried all of them and done fit tests on all of them. Fit tests always pass, and the pods always fall out. I even tried different sizes on different ears over time to compare the two but they seem to fall out at the same rate. I just (like as in 2 hours ago) broke down and bought some foam tips from Amazon to see if that helps. It's really disappointing because my original AirPods were so magical and now I kind of don't like wearing the Pro's. I've considered more than once just buying AirPod 2's and giving up.

GraemeL 6y ago
I've had problems with pretty much every in-ear bud I've had up until I bought the AirPod Pro's. Not had a single time when I've felt they have even started to come loose. I wear them with the stalks pointing forward at around 45 degrees.
gingerlime 6y ago
I have the same problem, although perhaps not as severe. I feel like they’re falling off and have to adjust them. Also tried all tip sizes and they all test as good fit as well, which is odd. All my previous in-ear felt like they fit better and also seal the noise out better naturally (without any noise cancellation) But my biggest disappointment is the mic quality with my MacBook. Apparently some limitation in Bluetooth or something? No idea but mic sounds like crap. Works great on the phone but I hardly talk on my phone ...
novok 6y ago
I think it's a break in issue. When you first get them the tips are stiffer and not covered in ear wax. As usage increases the rubber becomes more pliable (because it's so thin) and becomes covered with a layer of ear wax over time, causing lower friction and thus a higher probability of fall out.

jiofih 6y ago

> I actually told myself I would need to be extra careful from now on crossing the road. The noise cancellation was so good, I thought I might be hit by a car. Sounds like the author hasn’t ever used any other good ANC cans? Both the Bose and Sony pose the same hazard.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

someonehere 6y ago

Maybe litigation about the earbuds being too quiet might happen if someone doesn’t hear something behind them like a car horn or oncoming something. I used to wear noise cancelling headphones while walking to work in downtown SF. It was too much cancellation that bothered me because I couldn’t hear anything approaching me from behind. I can easily see the opposite happen if someone was killed with the OG firmware. “Are AirPods too quiet? Do they put you at risk?”

novok 6y ago
Wouldn't that also apply to earplugs?
- someonehere 6y ago
  I don’t know. I’m not Apple’s lawyers. I would assume wearing earplugs you have the intent of reducing the sound coming in. AirPods you are blocking external sound and replacing it with audio of some sort. With earplugs you could still hear things but at a reduced level. AirPods you’re covering up and external sound that could come through.

herval 6y ago

I got a pair of Pros as soon as they came out. The fit was weird (maybe I got used to regular Airpods), but what made me return them is I ALWAYS got nausea after a few minutes with the noise cancelling turned on. It’s anecdotal of course, but maybe there was something on v1 that added latency/something to the external noise, thus inducing motion sickness? (Never got to try the new firmware to confirm the theory)

jpalomaki 6y ago

There has been also some comments about people feeling "pressure" with the noise cancelling headphones. Couple of old articles mentioning this [1] and [2]. It's not about pressure as having something tucked into your ears, but related to the noise cancelling: "You may notice a pressure-like feeling in your ears when you first put noise-cancelling headphones on, like when you want to 'pop' your ears. This is caused by your brain perceiving the lack of low low-frequency sound as a pressure differential between your inner and outer ear, just like when you ascend in an airplane." If you search for Airpods and pressure, there are also comments on Reddit etc. I did not investigate if those are referring to this phenomenon. Something like this could explain why Apple would like to tweak with the noise cancelling. [1]https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/did-you-know-technology/noise-cancelling-headphones https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/did-you-know-technology/no... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/technology/personaltech/03pogue.html?mtrref=www.google.com https://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/03/technology/personaltech/0...

traspler 6y ago
I have this problem with noise canceling headphones. When I first tried the Bose headphones, I immediately felt an uncomfortable pressure on my ear drums. I can only wear them in airplanes and have to take breaks. I tried other headphones and none are perfect for me but I did buy the Sennheiser ones. It has okay noise canceling with only minimal pressure for me and with stellar audio performance. The noise canceling is noticeably worse than the Bose's but at least I can wear them longer. I also tried the AirPod Pros when they came out and felt very little pressure so from that angle I would have been comfortable with wearing them for an extended period. (I can't say for sure but it might not have been the launch firmware) As with all Apple headphones they just don't stay in my ears so sadly I passed them up.

thefabsta 6y ago

I've bought AirPods Pro in early November right after they were released. From my personal experience, the background firmware updates have had a very noticeable effect. I can attest to the perceived weakening of ANC (as opposed to the initial firmware) the article mentions. One firmware update has even rendered one of my AirPods Pro practically unusable due to a strange clicking noise that would occur whenever I was walking/running with ANC enabled, likely due to accelerations acting upon it. I was convinced it was a hardware fault and was ready to return them until another firmware update fixed the problem (until now at least).

windex 6y ago

Ive stopped buying anything with non replaceable batteries after noticing how much junk I accumulated just coz the batteries died. Anyone know of good bluetooth receivers (the types that clip to your pocket) that take an AA or AAA battery? I am just absolutely fed up of the battery situation. By the time the devices are broken in and you are comfortable, it's time to buy another pair. I am not that rich.

traspler 6y ago

I never noticed the "whoosh" silence with the AirPod Pros when I tried them BUT I noticed something like that on my iPhone XR. Sometimes when I am on a call and hold/press the phone to my ear in a certain way I have the sensation of losing most of my hearing in that ear with only the voice remaining. The sensation never lasts longer than a couple of seconds but it's only on phone calls that I ever noticed this. I never had that with any other smartphone, even ones claiming to have noise canceling during calls. Reading this article makes me belobe that the iPhone still has the original AirPod ANC which is just less effective due to the bad seal. Did anyone else notice this?