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I've been making liberal use of the flag button for the trolling comments once I picked up on the pattern.

by omar_a1 6y ago

jacquesm 6y ago
Ditto.
- omar_a1 6y ago
  On the bright side, I learned the term "sealioning" today, so thanks for that! :D
  - DonHopkins 6y ago
    Sealioning is a Gamergate tactic, so it's quite possible he's one of those disruptive children, and that's where he learned it from. He's certainly doing it regularly and systematically and by the book, as if it's a job he's been trained to do, he has a checklist of talking points and techniques, and is being paid for his time, number of posts, and number of words. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning Another tactic you can see him practicing, which we're all familiar with coming out of the White House, is psychological projection. Trolls like misterman are fully aware they're sealioning, know all the terminology because they study and emulate it, and they love to throw around and misuse terms like that themselves, to attack other sincere people for doing what they're actually maliciously doing themselves, to make it seem like it's just "both sides", which it's not. It's not just an internet thing. Here's an example of how racists sealion and project in real life: https://medium.com/@codeGrit/a-story-about-sealions-gamergate-notyourshield-dc7227ac273e https://medium.com/@codeGrit/a-story-about-sealions-gamergat...
DonHopkins 6y ago
Thank you! His pattern of sealioning is outrageously obvious and blatantly unoriginal and formulaic. It's as if he has a dog-eared copy of "Sealioning for Dummies" marked up with yellow highter pen and bookmarked with post-it pads, that he's following step by step, page by page, checking off each technique and trick as he tries it. Sealioning is related to the Gish Gallop, to which there are some countermeasures that work (beyond systematically flagging his post every time he does it, which is the least we all can do to protect the community). The approach that worked for me, and shut him up cold in his steps and made him suddenly retreat, is to be very calm and structured about your replies, and not let him derail you, which is something that we can all cooperate together on, and support each other by doing together as a tag team. Carefully chose and enumerate your questions, and repeat them when he doesn't answer them, but don't get distracted by his off-topic diversions, or his passive aggressive belligerence with a veneer of sincerity on top. His pseudo-intellectualism and pretend-open-mindedness and saccharine-sincerity is all just an act, and you don't owe him the level of courtesy that he is pretending to extend to you and mocking you with. I can practically see him laughing to himself (and his Gamergate veteran buddies) behind the keyboard every time he thinks he's fooled anyone into taking him seriously, because he certainly doesn't believe what he says. Just calmly point out every time he ignores one of your questions or somebody else's questions, or tries to derail the conversation. Keep relentlessly pushing him back onto the topic, and never let him derail you. When I did that, he was mortified and childishly complained that I was not the boss of him, and that I could not tell him what to do, or force him to answer my questions, then he immediately lost interest and fled without another word, because the last thing he actually wanted to to was to stay on topic and answer the questions I would not stop asking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop Technique and counter measures During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of many specious arguments, half-truths, and misrepresentations in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate.[3][4] In practice, each point raised by the "Gish galloper" takes considerably more time to refute or fact-check than it did to state in the first place.[5] The technique wastes an opponent's time and may cast doubt on the opponent's debating ability for an audience unfamiliar with the technique, especially if no independent fact-checking is involved[6] or if the audience has limited knowledge of the topics. Generally, it is more difficult to use the Gish gallop in a structured debate than in a free-form one.[7] If a debater is familiar with an opponent who is known to use the Gish gallop, the technique may be countered by pre-empting and refuting the opponent's commonly used arguments first, before the opponent has an opportunity to launch into a Gish gallop.[8]
- omar_a1 6y ago
  It gets under my skin too (as is the intention), but I think the best tactic is to just flag trolling comments into oblivion, and otherwise ignore to the extent that it's possible. With enough of flags the comments will be moderated out and disappear. Continued trolling will probably result in a ban, as will perpetuating flamewars.
  - DonHopkins 6y ago
    I agree. And he'll be very easy to recognize when he tries to create another sockpuppet account to troll with after he's banned, so we'll just flag that one too when we recognize him trying again.

I've been making liberal use of the flag button for the trolling comments once I picked up on the pattern.

jacquesm 6y ago

Ditto.

omar_a1 6y ago
On the bright side, I learned the term "sealioning" today, so thanks for that! :D
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  Sealioning is a Gamergate tactic, so it's quite possible he's one of those disruptive children, and that's where he learned it from. He's certainly doing it regularly and systematically and by the book, as if it's a job he's been trained to do, he has a checklist of talking points and techniques, and is being paid for his time, number of posts, and number of words. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/sea-lioning Another tactic you can see him practicing, which we're all familiar with coming out of the White House, is psychological projection. Trolls like misterman are fully aware they're sealioning, know all the terminology because they study and emulate it, and they love to throw around and misuse terms like that themselves, to attack other sincere people for doing what they're actually maliciously doing themselves, to make it seem like it's just "both sides", which it's not. It's not just an internet thing. Here's an example of how racists sealion and project in real life: https://medium.com/@codeGrit/a-story-about-sealions-gamergate-notyourshield-dc7227ac273e https://medium.com/@codeGrit/a-story-about-sealions-gamergat...

DonHopkins 6y ago

Thank you! His pattern of sealioning is outrageously obvious and blatantly unoriginal and formulaic. It's as if he has a dog-eared copy of "Sealioning for Dummies" marked up with yellow highter pen and bookmarked with post-it pads, that he's following step by step, page by page, checking off each technique and trick as he tries it. Sealioning is related to the Gish Gallop, to which there are some countermeasures that work (beyond systematically flagging his post every time he does it, which is the least we all can do to protect the community). The approach that worked for me, and shut him up cold in his steps and made him suddenly retreat, is to be very calm and structured about your replies, and not let him derail you, which is something that we can all cooperate together on, and support each other by doing together as a tag team. Carefully chose and enumerate your questions, and repeat them when he doesn't answer them, but don't get distracted by his off-topic diversions, or his passive aggressive belligerence with a veneer of sincerity on top. His pseudo-intellectualism and pretend-open-mindedness and saccharine-sincerity is all just an act, and you don't owe him the level of courtesy that he is pretending to extend to you and mocking you with. I can practically see him laughing to himself (and his Gamergate veteran buddies) behind the keyboard every time he thinks he's fooled anyone into taking him seriously, because he certainly doesn't believe what he says. Just calmly point out every time he ignores one of your questions or somebody else's questions, or tries to derail the conversation. Keep relentlessly pushing him back onto the topic, and never let him derail you. When I did that, he was mortified and childishly complained that I was not the boss of him, and that I could not tell him what to do, or force him to answer my questions, then he immediately lost interest and fled without another word, because the last thing he actually wanted to to was to stay on topic and answer the questions I would not stop asking. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop Technique and counter measures During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of many specious arguments, half-truths, and misrepresentations in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate.[3][4] In practice, each point raised by the "Gish galloper" takes considerably more time to refute or fact-check than it did to state in the first place.[5] The technique wastes an opponent's time and may cast doubt on the opponent's debating ability for an audience unfamiliar with the technique, especially if no independent fact-checking is involved[6] or if the audience has limited knowledge of the topics. Generally, it is more difficult to use the Gish gallop in a structured debate than in a free-form one.[7] If a debater is familiar with an opponent who is known to use the Gish gallop, the technique may be countered by pre-empting and refuting the opponent's commonly used arguments first, before the opponent has an opportunity to launch into a Gish gallop.[8]

omar_a1 6y ago
It gets under my skin too (as is the intention), but I think the best tactic is to just flag trolling comments into oblivion, and otherwise ignore to the extent that it's possible. With enough of flags the comments will be moderated out and disappear. Continued trolling will probably result in a ban, as will perpetuating flamewars.
- DonHopkins 6y ago
  I agree. And he'll be very easy to recognize when he tries to create another sockpuppet account to troll with after he's banned, so we'll just flag that one too when we recognize him trying again.