5 ms·

whenever someone mentions ender's game in a positive light i worry about that person https://web.archive.org/web/20070206121131/http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Ki

whenever someone mentions ender's game in a positive light i worry about that person https://web.archive.org/web/20070206121131/http://www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20070206121131/http://www4.ncsu.... tldr; orson scott card is a bigot and ender's game is nazi apologia. if you don't want to read the above it's been written about in numerous places (google "ender's game book fascism").

quesera 6y ago
That's collegiate literary analysis. Not everything Google-able is true. Many authors are difficult. Ender's Game is a great story.
adaisadais 6y ago
I think that's reading a little too far into Ender's Game for the average 7th grader... It is a fantastic novel. The author of the article you posted (who was basing the nazi thing on another author's work) stated this in regards to the "Ender is Hitler" argument, "...Radford’s essay says many things with which I do not agree, and its tone is often intemperate..." So your bias against Ender's Game is based on a guy who was biased against the very argument that has led to me writing this comment.
mordae 6y ago
I found this particular work to be quite balanced. You need to read Ender's Game as a prequel to the Speaker for the Dead where Ender actually grows up.
teekert 6y ago
To me Ender's Game is about how it is almost impossible to not start to love something you know deeply. He couldn't both understand and wipe out the buggers, because understanding them meant seeing their beauty, so he had to be tricked. This touched me deeply.
adamsea 6y ago
I agree. However as someone who read Enders Game as a kid but didn’t know any better I get some folks emotional attachment. I have fond memories though if I read it now there’s a good chance I’d hate it. Yet I’d recommend those folks who are now adults and cite it as their most influential piece of fiction to go out and read more fiction! :). Just to be snobby I’ll throw out Thomas Mann’s The Magic Mountain. Beautiful and contemplative.
Smoosh 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author
TulliusCicero 6y ago
When I read > ender's game is nazi apologia in your comment, I was pretty sure that there would be a point in the quoted article where the author went from reasonable background/description, to instantly jumping to a completely nonsensical argument, and I was not disappointed. > The difference between Peter and Ender is not in what they do, but in what they are What? That's incredibly dumb. This like saying a serial killer, and someone who shot a person who shot at them first, are the same thing. You can't just ignore context because it's convenient to your argument. By this reasoning, anyone who's not an avowed pacifist -- who wouldn't even fight back against naked aggression -- is equivalent to the worst murderer. Maybe Ender went too far, but he did act in self-defense, against other kids who tried to maim or even kill him. Peter killed animals because he wanted to. That is nowhere close to the same thing. Like, does the author of this piece seriously believe that self defense is never justified or something? > Ender is “kind” and “good” even when his actions seem to belie that characterization. Ender is ruthless against those who go out of their way to threaten him, that's true enough, but in the context of the story he has an awful lot of threats to his life for a little kid! Brutally fighting back is completely understandable. What else would you even expect him to do, in that situation? If you're gonna find fault with the story here, pointing out that the adults are all complicit in letting Ender be abused, sure that's bad and dumb. But given that they're doing that, blaming Ender for desperately fighting back is utter nonsense.
- Aeolun 6y ago
  I don’t know. What Ender does always seems fairly reasonable to me.
- throwqwerty 6y ago
  >Maybe Ender went too far, but he did act in self-defense the book is literally about a kid committing genocide and the reasons why he should feel okay about it (ie a pretext). or did you not read it through to the end?
  - TulliusCicero 6y ago
    I read through to what I quoted. What an author starts spouting completely nonsense arguments, why would I waste my time continuing further? The author apparently thinks self defense is as bad as killing for the heck of it, if they're that dumb, why would I be interested in their moral judgment for anything else?
vehementi 6y ago
lol you "worry about that person" because they aren't aware that the author happens to be a bigot.
newen 6y ago
Can we as a society please stop ruining stuff just because the author had bad opinions or whatever?
- torgian 6y ago
  Agreed. It’s a great story. I remember when the movie was coming out, that the fact that Orson is a bigot came out. Changed my opinion about the man, but the books he wrote ar e still good.
- throwqwerty 6y ago
  so you think propagandist literature has no effect on its reader?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

quesera 6y ago

That's collegiate literary analysis. Not everything Google-able is true. Many authors are difficult. Ender's Game is a great story.

adaisadais 6y ago

I think that's reading a little too far into Ender's Game for the average 7th grader... It is a fantastic novel. The author of the article you posted (who was basing the nazi thing on another author's work) stated this in regards to the "Ender is Hitler" argument, "...Radford’s essay says many things with which I do not agree, and its tone is often intemperate..." So your bias against Ender's Game is based on a guy who was biased against the very argument that has led to me writing this comment.

mordae 6y ago

I found this particular work to be quite balanced. You need to read Ender's Game as a prequel to the Speaker for the Dead where Ender actually grows up.

teekert 6y ago

To me Ender's Game is about how it is almost impossible to not start to love something you know deeply. He couldn't both understand and wipe out the buggers, because understanding them meant seeing their beauty, so he had to be tricked. This touched me deeply.

adamsea 6y ago

I agree. However as someone who read Enders Game as a kid but didn’t know any better I get some folks emotional attachment. I have fond memories though if I read it now there’s a good chance I’d hate it. Yet I’d recommend those folks who are now adults and cite it as their most influential piece of fiction to go out and read more fiction! :). Just to be snobby I’ll throw out Thomas Mann’s The Magic Mountain. Beautiful and contemplative.

Smoosh 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author

TulliusCicero 6y ago

When I read > ender's game is nazi apologia in your comment, I was pretty sure that there would be a point in the quoted article where the author went from reasonable background/description, to instantly jumping to a completely nonsensical argument, and I was not disappointed. > The difference between Peter and Ender is not in what they do, but in what they are What? That's incredibly dumb. This like saying a serial killer, and someone who shot a person who shot at them first, are the same thing. You can't just ignore context because it's convenient to your argument. By this reasoning, anyone who's not an avowed pacifist -- who wouldn't even fight back against naked aggression -- is equivalent to the worst murderer. Maybe Ender went too far, but he did act in self-defense, against other kids who tried to maim or even kill him. Peter killed animals because he wanted to. That is nowhere close to the same thing. Like, does the author of this piece seriously believe that self defense is never justified or something? > Ender is “kind” and “good” even when his actions seem to belie that characterization. Ender is ruthless against those who go out of their way to threaten him, that's true enough, but in the context of the story he has an awful lot of threats to his life for a little kid! Brutally fighting back is completely understandable. What else would you even expect him to do, in that situation? If you're gonna find fault with the story here, pointing out that the adults are all complicit in letting Ender be abused, sure that's bad and dumb. But given that they're doing that, blaming Ender for desperately fighting back is utter nonsense.

Aeolun 6y ago
I don’t know. What Ender does always seems fairly reasonable to me.
throwqwerty 6y ago
>Maybe Ender went too far, but he did act in self-defense the book is literally about a kid committing genocide and the reasons why he should feel okay about it (ie a pretext). or did you not read it through to the end?
- TulliusCicero 6y ago
  I read through to what I quoted. What an author starts spouting completely nonsense arguments, why would I waste my time continuing further? The author apparently thinks self defense is as bad as killing for the heck of it, if they're that dumb, why would I be interested in their moral judgment for anything else?

vehementi 6y ago

lol you "worry about that person" because they aren't aware that the author happens to be a bigot.

newen 6y ago

Can we as a society please stop ruining stuff just because the author had bad opinions or whatever?

torgian 6y ago
Agreed. It’s a great story. I remember when the movie was coming out, that the fact that Orson is a bigot came out. Changed my opinion about the man, but the books he wrote ar e still good.
throwqwerty 6y ago
so you think propagandist literature has no effect on its reader?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]