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There is official health institute report from Italy: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy

There is official health institute report from Italy: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-tho... This is just a panic created on social media.

llamataboot 7y ago
maybe examine the prevalence of all those conditions in the US?
- runin2k1 7y ago
  "More than 99% of Italy’s coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions" What were the most common pre-existing conditions? "More than 75% had high blood pressure, about 35% had diabetes and a third suffered from heart disease." How common are those conditions in the United States? High Blood Pressure - 1 in 3 Diabetes - 9 in 100 Heart Disease - 1 in 10
  - listsfrin 7y ago
    When I studied medicine 15 years ago 130-139 mm Hg was not considered high blood pressure. We were young students and we were toying everyday measuring our blood pressure. Most males had over 130. It seems times are changing: https://www.cdc.gov/bloodpressure/facts.htm https://www.cdc.gov/bloodpressure/facts.htm We have "evolved"!
    - runin2k1 7y ago
      Your initial proposal was that most of the Covid related deaths were due underlying conditions. Now you propose that the underlying condition most present isn't really a condition.
      - listsfrin 7y ago
        You made me curios about it so I did a quick internet search for what is considered high blood pressure in Italy. I found https://www.epicentro.iss.it/ben/2002/settembre02/2_en https://www.epicentro.iss.it/ben/2002/settembre02/2_en (the same health institute that provided the study I was talking about above). I quote: "The prevalence of borderline hypertension was calculated by determining the number of persons who had systolic pressures between 140 and 160 mm Hg or who had diastolic pressures between 90 and 95 mm Hg." This is more inline with what I've been thought in med school in my time.
  - s1artibartfast 7y ago
    I would be careful not to confuse correlation with causation here. Most old people have medical conditions. For example, about 75% of older people have high blood pressure [1] so seeing a 75% rate in the virus fatalities should not mean much. I suspect age and immune function drive mortality, and the other factors are merely along for the ride. [1] https://www.uptodate.com/contents/treatment-of-hypertension-in-older-adults-particularly-isolated-systolic-hypertension https://www.uptodate.com/contents/treatment-of-hypertension-...
notenoughhorses 7y ago
"More than 75% had high blood pressure, about 35% had diabetes and a third suffered from heart disease." I feel like a huge number of Americans have high blood pressure and heart disease. Seems like it will still be very serious for a large number of people.
chimprich 7y ago
> This is just a panic created on social media. Don't be ridiculous. You can discuss the distribution of deaths, but the deaths are real. A 2% death rate is still 2%. That's huge. It still has the potential to overwhelm any country's health system.
- listsfrin 7y ago
  The deaths were always real. Putting the whole planet on hold because some 80 years old with three associated illnesses died is a bit borderline SF and a bit borderline stupid.
  - jansan 7y ago
    Quote from the movie The Big Short: "Every 1 percent unemployment goes up, 40,000 people die, did you know that?". That is probably an exaggeration, but I really hope people in power know what they are doing at the moment.
  - deelowe 7y ago
    It's not going to be 80 year olds dying if the hospitals are overwhelmed. 40% of people in ICU in italy are 19-40, basically, those who make up the majority of the workforce.
    - jansan 7y ago
      I highly doubt that number. Do you have a reliable source for that?
      - chimprich 7y ago
        It looks startling, but could be true. Reportedly, the health workers in Italy had to do some fairly brutal prioritisation in triage. If you have a lot more patients requiring ICU than you have stations, you end up with a high proportion of younger patients in ICU even if they are a low proportion overall.
elhudy 7y ago
>705 were aged 20 to 44, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Between 15% and 20% eventually ended up in the hospital, including as many as 4% who needed intensive care. That's not a shocking number to you? 15% - 20% of people aged 20-44 ended up hospitalized? Even if no deaths were involved, that many young people ending up in the hospital is concerning.
- k1t 7y ago
  It really comes back to the testing. There could be a million people 20-44 who didn't get tested and didn't need to visit a hospital. If you only test people who arrive at a hospital with serious symptoms, it's not surprising that many of them go on to be admitted.

llamataboot 7y ago

maybe examine the prevalence of all those conditions in the US?

runin2k1 7y ago
"More than 99% of Italy’s coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions" What were the most common pre-existing conditions? "More than 75% had high blood pressure, about 35% had diabetes and a third suffered from heart disease." How common are those conditions in the United States? High Blood Pressure - 1 in 3 Diabetes - 9 in 100 Heart Disease - 1 in 10
- listsfrin 7y ago
  When I studied medicine 15 years ago 130-139 mm Hg was not considered high blood pressure. We were young students and we were toying everyday measuring our blood pressure. Most males had over 130. It seems times are changing: https://www.cdc.gov/bloodpressure/facts.htm https://www.cdc.gov/bloodpressure/facts.htm We have "evolved"!
  - runin2k1 7y ago
    Your initial proposal was that most of the Covid related deaths were due underlying conditions. Now you propose that the underlying condition most present isn't really a condition.
    - listsfrin 7y ago
      You made me curios about it so I did a quick internet search for what is considered high blood pressure in Italy. I found https://www.epicentro.iss.it/ben/2002/settembre02/2_en https://www.epicentro.iss.it/ben/2002/settembre02/2_en (the same health institute that provided the study I was talking about above). I quote: "The prevalence of borderline hypertension was calculated by determining the number of persons who had systolic pressures between 140 and 160 mm Hg or who had diastolic pressures between 90 and 95 mm Hg." This is more inline with what I've been thought in med school in my time.
- s1artibartfast 7y ago
  I would be careful not to confuse correlation with causation here. Most old people have medical conditions. For example, about 75% of older people have high blood pressure [1] so seeing a 75% rate in the virus fatalities should not mean much. I suspect age and immune function drive mortality, and the other factors are merely along for the ride. [1] https://www.uptodate.com/contents/treatment-of-hypertension-in-older-adults-particularly-isolated-systolic-hypertension https://www.uptodate.com/contents/treatment-of-hypertension-...

notenoughhorses 7y ago

"More than 75% had high blood pressure, about 35% had diabetes and a third suffered from heart disease." I feel like a huge number of Americans have high blood pressure and heart disease. Seems like it will still be very serious for a large number of people.

chimprich 7y ago

> This is just a panic created on social media. Don't be ridiculous. You can discuss the distribution of deaths, but the deaths are real. A 2% death rate is still 2%. That's huge. It still has the potential to overwhelm any country's health system.

listsfrin 7y ago
The deaths were always real. Putting the whole planet on hold because some 80 years old with three associated illnesses died is a bit borderline SF and a bit borderline stupid.
- jansan 7y ago
  Quote from the movie The Big Short: "Every 1 percent unemployment goes up, 40,000 people die, did you know that?". That is probably an exaggeration, but I really hope people in power know what they are doing at the moment.
- deelowe 7y ago
  It's not going to be 80 year olds dying if the hospitals are overwhelmed. 40% of people in ICU in italy are 19-40, basically, those who make up the majority of the workforce.
  - jansan 7y ago
    I highly doubt that number. Do you have a reliable source for that?
    - chimprich 7y ago
      It looks startling, but could be true. Reportedly, the health workers in Italy had to do some fairly brutal prioritisation in triage. If you have a lot more patients requiring ICU than you have stations, you end up with a high proportion of younger patients in ICU even if they are a low proportion overall.

elhudy 7y ago

>705 were aged 20 to 44, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Between 15% and 20% eventually ended up in the hospital, including as many as 4% who needed intensive care. That's not a shocking number to you? 15% - 20% of people aged 20-44 ended up hospitalized? Even if no deaths were involved, that many young people ending up in the hospital is concerning.

k1t 7y ago
It really comes back to the testing. There could be a million people 20-44 who didn't get tested and didn't need to visit a hospital. If you only test people who arrive at a hospital with serious symptoms, it's not surprising that many of them go on to be admitted.