7 ms·

The primary transmission route in inhalation in close proximity to an infected person. Yes, it can persist on surfaces, but this hand-washing meme is mostly a r

The primary transmission route in inhalation in close proximity to an infected person. Yes, it can persist on surfaces, but this hand-washing meme is mostly a result of (1) it costs nothing and may help, so we should try and (2) masks are supply limited and the healthcare industry doesn't have enough. In reality, if we had an abundance of masks, masks would be more important than hand washing. As it stands, we reserve them for HC workers and infected persons. The point being, subways are worse.

CydeWeys 7y ago
If you take the hand washing and not touching your face, then you're at almost zero risk from using shared bicycles. Even if someone gets some rona on the handlebars, if you don't transfer it to an orifice in your face you won't catch it. It's not gonna re-aerosolize off the handlebars.
- generationP 7y ago
  "Not touching your face" is not a viable solution for most people. It's subconscious. If anyone could master this kind of self-control within a week, everyone would be an arahat.
  - dmix 7y ago
    If you aren’t aware of this those ML apps that beep when you touch your face are pretty surprising. Also there’s the whole psychological thing about telling someone not to do something when it was previously largely automatic, making people do it more. Like having an itch or imagining insect bites.
  - wool_gather 7y ago
    It's not expected to be perfect and immediate. It's about lowering risk as much as feasible and defense in depth.
  - usaar333 7y ago
    It's pretty easy to not touch your face when your hands are physically on the handlebars. As long as you are able to wash your hands immediately after getting off the bike, I think you are reasonably safe.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    I don't think that's true. People can get a lot better at it in a relatively short period of time. I have.
    - magicroot75 7y ago
      Face touching is literally unconscious in many cases. It's entirely possible you've been touching your face and not noticing it, but have just become more conscious of the times you attempt to stop yourself from touching your face.
      - CydeWeys 7y ago
        Moving your arms isn't like breathing. It's not some autonomic nervous function.
- btgeekboy 7y ago
  The handlebars are also out in the sun. I'd think that subjects them to the UV light needed to kill any of the nasty stuff; but I could be wrong.
dmix 7y ago
I read N95 masks were basically useless when walking outside, they only mattered indoors and in confined spaces (like public transit). I’d imagine biking is even less transmission and wearing a mask with that is pretty unrealistic. It’s hard to find what is right on the internet though.
- koolba 7y ago
  Useless or pointless?
  - Scoundreller 7y ago
    Pointless waste of a perfectly good mask.
- jbay808 7y ago
  I biked in an N95 in Vancouver during forest fire season in 2018. Not fun, but doable and it definitely helped -- without the mask I felt absolutely awful.
  - CydeWeys 7y ago
    That's for a different situation, though. The smoke particulates are very small and are omnipresent, so a mask definitely helps. Coronavirus, by contrast, is only airborne for a short while, so unless you're close to someone who's infected you're not going to be breathing it in anyway. That's why they're saying the masks have limited effectiveness outside.
    - jbay808 7y ago
      Oh, when the GP said it's unrealistic to bike in a mask, I thought they meant it would be too difficult. Maybe they just meant unnecessary, in which case I agree.
      - CydeWeys 7y ago
        Yeah, I'm thinking that's what they must mean. An N95 mask doesn't cut down your breathing that much, and you can simply down-moderate your effort a little bit so that you never hit a pant. It's no gas mask.
echelon 7y ago
Do you have a citation for this? I don't want to blindly trust that fomites aren't a major risk. If true, that changes how I want to get food to my elders. (I've already gotten them several months worth, but I don't see an end to this and would feel safer if they had more runway.)
- wool_gather 7y ago
  The CDC does state in one place that inhalation appears to be the primary route: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmissi... It says surface -> hands -> mucous membrane "is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads". But then again, the TTL of the virus on surfaces is still not certain, so, as also noted there "we are still learning how it spreads".
  - erikbye 7y ago
    The TTL might be days. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v...

CydeWeys 7y ago

If you take the hand washing and not touching your face, then you're at almost zero risk from using shared bicycles. Even if someone gets some rona on the handlebars, if you don't transfer it to an orifice in your face you won't catch it. It's not gonna re-aerosolize off the handlebars.

generationP 7y ago
"Not touching your face" is not a viable solution for most people. It's subconscious. If anyone could master this kind of self-control within a week, everyone would be an arahat.
- dmix 7y ago
  If you aren’t aware of this those ML apps that beep when you touch your face are pretty surprising. Also there’s the whole psychological thing about telling someone not to do something when it was previously largely automatic, making people do it more. Like having an itch or imagining insect bites.
- wool_gather 7y ago
  It's not expected to be perfect and immediate. It's about lowering risk as much as feasible and defense in depth.
- usaar333 7y ago
  It's pretty easy to not touch your face when your hands are physically on the handlebars. As long as you are able to wash your hands immediately after getting off the bike, I think you are reasonably safe.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  I don't think that's true. People can get a lot better at it in a relatively short period of time. I have.
  - magicroot75 7y ago
    Face touching is literally unconscious in many cases. It's entirely possible you've been touching your face and not noticing it, but have just become more conscious of the times you attempt to stop yourself from touching your face.
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      Moving your arms isn't like breathing. It's not some autonomic nervous function.
btgeekboy 7y ago
The handlebars are also out in the sun. I'd think that subjects them to the UV light needed to kill any of the nasty stuff; but I could be wrong.

dmix 7y ago

I read N95 masks were basically useless when walking outside, they only mattered indoors and in confined spaces (like public transit). I’d imagine biking is even less transmission and wearing a mask with that is pretty unrealistic. It’s hard to find what is right on the internet though.

koolba 7y ago
Useless or pointless?
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  Pointless waste of a perfectly good mask.
jbay808 7y ago
I biked in an N95 in Vancouver during forest fire season in 2018. Not fun, but doable and it definitely helped -- without the mask I felt absolutely awful.
- CydeWeys 7y ago
  That's for a different situation, though. The smoke particulates are very small and are omnipresent, so a mask definitely helps. Coronavirus, by contrast, is only airborne for a short while, so unless you're close to someone who's infected you're not going to be breathing it in anyway. That's why they're saying the masks have limited effectiveness outside.
  - jbay808 7y ago
    Oh, when the GP said it's unrealistic to bike in a mask, I thought they meant it would be too difficult. Maybe they just meant unnecessary, in which case I agree.
    - CydeWeys 7y ago
      Yeah, I'm thinking that's what they must mean. An N95 mask doesn't cut down your breathing that much, and you can simply down-moderate your effort a little bit so that you never hit a pant. It's no gas mask.

echelon 7y ago

Do you have a citation for this? I don't want to blindly trust that fomites aren't a major risk. If true, that changes how I want to get food to my elders. (I've already gotten them several months worth, but I don't see an end to this and would feel safer if they had more runway.)

wool_gather 7y ago
The CDC does state in one place that inhalation appears to be the primary route: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmission.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prepare/transmissi... It says surface -> hands -> mucous membrane "is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads". But then again, the TTL of the virus on surfaces is still not certain, so, as also noted there "we are still learning how it spreads".
- erikbye 7y ago
  The TTL might be days. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v1.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v...