6 ms·

I live in Paris and whatever you think of the current mayor, this is pure marketing babble for the elections next month. Paris has always had this very dense c

by pi-err 7y ago

I live in Paris and whatever you think of the current mayor, this is pure marketing babble for the elections next month. Paris has always had this very dense city core where 99% of daily life is 5-10’ away. It’s a great concept for dense metropoles, but it only works because the city is so small: 100 square kilometers in an ocean of much lesser density. 80% of “Greater Parisians” live outside Paris itself. Unfortunately there is no actual representations for 80% of those “outside Parisians” since they are split between hundreds of small cities with individual political dynamics. Pure game theory as local governance.

raverbashing 7y ago
I agree with you and if there was a survey of problems (at the municipal level) the inhabitants think of as priority, the walkability of the city would probably not be their main priority (which, as noted, is good).
- hk__2 7y ago
  > I agree with you and if there was a survey of problems (at the municipal level) the inhabitants think of as priority, the walkability of the city would probably not be their main priority (which, as noted, is good). There is a survey at the municipal level called the “Budget Participatif”, where inhabitants can suggest and vote for projects that’ll then be executed by the city. These projects represent 5% of the annual city budget. There have been so many projects about pedestrian areas in 2018 that they decided to remove the whole category in 2019 not to be overwhelm by the quantity of new projects and have time to do the previous ones. If that shows one thing, it’s that the walkability of the city is a main priority.
peignoir 7y ago
+1 The elections are coming soon and the current mayor is just doubling down on promesses (while Paris is great on paper the past couple of years did feel like chaos from my point of view)
- yardie 7y ago
  I feel the last few years of chaos has less to do with the mayor and more to do with the national legislation. The mayor is not negotiating pensions and fuel taxes. Which is where most of these protests are about. It can both be true that Paris is a well run city with a president who invites protest every week.
  - wozniacki 7y ago
    A lot of things Paris is but a "well run city" may not be one of them, just like SF is many things but a well run city. SF gets its share of attention on HN. Time other cities do too. Even if you discount all of the following ( including from France's own national broadcaster - France 24 ) as biased news, we can agree on one thing - there's a lot of strife in the streets of Paris, hidden from plain view. From 3 months ago: Paris migrant camps cleared — again — in immigration crackdown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttf5j5SVrFs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttf5j5SVrFs Thousands of asylum seekers waiting in streets, makeshift camps around Paris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htRQwzI5jY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htRQwzI5jY Paris authorities clear large migrant camps on edge of city https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5PegltCkmw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5PegltCkmw From an year ago: Migrants moved to wealthy Paris neighbourhood, what do locals think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59lEtxjFK5A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59lEtxjFK5A From nearly 4 years ago: Mass Immigration Ruins The Streets Of France https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqopPs5Tp-I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqopPs5Tp-I edit:formatting
    - cma 7y ago
      Am I reading Hacker news or Stormfront?
hk__2 7y ago
The city mayor first cares about the people of that city; there’s nothing illogical here.
- lizknope 7y ago
  While there is nothing illogical about it there is more to a city than just the people who live in it. Millions of people live in a suburb and commute to work in a larger city. Their employer pays taxes in that city. The employees eat lunch in that city. The city may be a tourist destination (Paris certainly is)
  - hk__2 7y ago
    Of course, and improving the lives of those people is important but should never be detrimental to the Parisians themselves. For example, tourism means lots of Airbnb’d flats that are thus taken away from the people who could live there, and higher rents for those who can.
    - wozniacki 7y ago
      Your comment seems highly tone-deaf. Look at some of the comments above about pollution and what it has done to areas immediately outside of the city core.
      - hk__2 7y ago
        The air quality in Paris has significantly improved over the past few years, thanks to multiple initiatives to reduce the car traffic, both at the city and regional level [1]. [1]: https://www.la-croix.com/France/qualite-lair-sameliore-Paris-2019-07-19-1201036326 https://www.la-croix.com/France/qualite-lair-sameliore-Paris...
        jackjeff 7y ago
        Improved in places. Got worse in others. https://www.airparif.asso.fr/actualite/detail/id/213 https://www.airparif.asso.fr/actualite/detail/id/213 Some of the places where it got worse are far away from Paris… so who cares about the poor people who live in a far-away suburb near the freeway. It's not like they vote for Paris' mayor.
jackjeff 7y ago
What is considered to be Paris (100km2) is a lot smaller than what people consider to be London (1500km2) or NYC (800km2 of land). Yes. If you’re rich enough and can afford to live in Paris everything is about 15mins away. If you leave “outside” then be ready for commutes that get proportionally cheaper as travel distance increase. A commute time of one hour or less is considered good. It’s not rare for people to commute for 2 hours or more, for each trip. The problem is that the mayor of Paris is elected to represent the wishes of the privileged few that live in the center and cares little about commuters. The anti-car attitude of the current Mayor (Mrs Hidalgo) reflects this. And if you look carefully at the data it looks like air pollution has reduced in areas where cars were removed but has increased elsewhere. It’s hardly a win for air pollution, but if you live in Paris the river side is now for pedestrians and not cars. So yeah. Real nice, if you can afford to live there.
- oska 7y ago
  > And if you look carefully at the data it looks like air pollution has reduced in areas where cars were removed but has increased elsewhere. Are you trying to imply some sort of causation here? Because I can't see how decreasing car use in the city centre would increase usage outside it. > It’s hardly a win for air pollution Decreasing the use of (internal combustion) cars in city centres is a huge win for air pollution as that is generally where traffic is most concentrated and thus air pollution levels are highest.
  - jackjeff 7y ago
    Car use in Paris has just shifted around. For it to disappear people would need credible alternatives. Remember most Parisians don’t have a cars and have fantastic public transport. It’s workers and commuters from far away that need vehicles. Basically the river side used to be like a highway where you could travel from West to East and vice versa. This is essentially gone now. But all the traffic has moved more inland. So the pollution has reduced near the river, but increases on the East/West boulevards. It’s possible that traffic overall may have decreased, but the boulevards are full of intersection and traffic lights, whereas the river side highway was basically devoid of them. So overall for pollution, it’s really hard to see a win.
simonebrunozzi 7y ago
I agree with you, but don't know Paris well enough to know the exact details. How would you define the border of this "inner city" ?

by pi-err 7y ago

raverbashing 7y ago

I agree with you and if there was a survey of problems (at the municipal level) the inhabitants think of as priority, the walkability of the city would probably not be their main priority (which, as noted, is good).

hk__2 7y ago
> I agree with you and if there was a survey of problems (at the municipal level) the inhabitants think of as priority, the walkability of the city would probably not be their main priority (which, as noted, is good). There is a survey at the municipal level called the “Budget Participatif”, where inhabitants can suggest and vote for projects that’ll then be executed by the city. These projects represent 5% of the annual city budget. There have been so many projects about pedestrian areas in 2018 that they decided to remove the whole category in 2019 not to be overwhelm by the quantity of new projects and have time to do the previous ones. If that shows one thing, it’s that the walkability of the city is a main priority.

peignoir 7y ago

+1 The elections are coming soon and the current mayor is just doubling down on promesses (while Paris is great on paper the past couple of years did feel like chaos from my point of view)

yardie 7y ago
I feel the last few years of chaos has less to do with the mayor and more to do with the national legislation. The mayor is not negotiating pensions and fuel taxes. Which is where most of these protests are about. It can both be true that Paris is a well run city with a president who invites protest every week.
- wozniacki 7y ago
  A lot of things Paris is but a "well run city" may not be one of them, just like SF is many things but a well run city. SF gets its share of attention on HN. Time other cities do too. Even if you discount all of the following ( including from France's own national broadcaster - France 24 ) as biased news, we can agree on one thing - there's a lot of strife in the streets of Paris, hidden from plain view. From 3 months ago: Paris migrant camps cleared — again — in immigration crackdown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttf5j5SVrFs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttf5j5SVrFs Thousands of asylum seekers waiting in streets, makeshift camps around Paris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htRQwzI5jY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2htRQwzI5jY Paris authorities clear large migrant camps on edge of city https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5PegltCkmw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5PegltCkmw From an year ago: Migrants moved to wealthy Paris neighbourhood, what do locals think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59lEtxjFK5A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59lEtxjFK5A From nearly 4 years ago: Mass Immigration Ruins The Streets Of France https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqopPs5Tp-I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqopPs5Tp-I edit:formatting
  - cma 7y ago
    Am I reading Hacker news or Stormfront?

hk__2 7y ago

The city mayor first cares about the people of that city; there’s nothing illogical here.

lizknope 7y ago
While there is nothing illogical about it there is more to a city than just the people who live in it. Millions of people live in a suburb and commute to work in a larger city. Their employer pays taxes in that city. The employees eat lunch in that city. The city may be a tourist destination (Paris certainly is)
- hk__2 7y ago
  Of course, and improving the lives of those people is important but should never be detrimental to the Parisians themselves. For example, tourism means lots of Airbnb’d flats that are thus taken away from the people who could live there, and higher rents for those who can.
  - wozniacki 7y ago
    Your comment seems highly tone-deaf. Look at some of the comments above about pollution and what it has done to areas immediately outside of the city core.
    - hk__2 7y ago
      The air quality in Paris has significantly improved over the past few years, thanks to multiple initiatives to reduce the car traffic, both at the city and regional level [1]. [1]: https://www.la-croix.com/France/qualite-lair-sameliore-Paris-2019-07-19-1201036326 https://www.la-croix.com/France/qualite-lair-sameliore-Paris...
      - jackjeff 7y ago
        Improved in places. Got worse in others. https://www.airparif.asso.fr/actualite/detail/id/213 https://www.airparif.asso.fr/actualite/detail/id/213 Some of the places where it got worse are far away from Paris… so who cares about the poor people who live in a far-away suburb near the freeway. It's not like they vote for Paris' mayor.

jackjeff 7y ago

What is considered to be Paris (100km2) is a lot smaller than what people consider to be London (1500km2) or NYC (800km2 of land). Yes. If you’re rich enough and can afford to live in Paris everything is about 15mins away. If you leave “outside” then be ready for commutes that get proportionally cheaper as travel distance increase. A commute time of one hour or less is considered good. It’s not rare for people to commute for 2 hours or more, for each trip. The problem is that the mayor of Paris is elected to represent the wishes of the privileged few that live in the center and cares little about commuters. The anti-car attitude of the current Mayor (Mrs Hidalgo) reflects this. And if you look carefully at the data it looks like air pollution has reduced in areas where cars were removed but has increased elsewhere. It’s hardly a win for air pollution, but if you live in Paris the river side is now for pedestrians and not cars. So yeah. Real nice, if you can afford to live there.

oska 7y ago
> And if you look carefully at the data it looks like air pollution has reduced in areas where cars were removed but has increased elsewhere. Are you trying to imply some sort of causation here? Because I can't see how decreasing car use in the city centre would increase usage outside it. > It’s hardly a win for air pollution Decreasing the use of (internal combustion) cars in city centres is a huge win for air pollution as that is generally where traffic is most concentrated and thus air pollution levels are highest.
- jackjeff 7y ago
  Car use in Paris has just shifted around. For it to disappear people would need credible alternatives. Remember most Parisians don’t have a cars and have fantastic public transport. It’s workers and commuters from far away that need vehicles. Basically the river side used to be like a highway where you could travel from West to East and vice versa. This is essentially gone now. But all the traffic has moved more inland. So the pollution has reduced near the river, but increases on the East/West boulevards. It’s possible that traffic overall may have decreased, but the boulevards are full of intersection and traffic lights, whereas the river side highway was basically devoid of them. So overall for pollution, it’s really hard to see a win.

simonebrunozzi 7y ago

I agree with you, but don't know Paris well enough to know the exact details. How would you define the border of this "inner city" ?