5 ms·

I love the idea of having a Linux distro that emulates macOS, but I see no point in copying only the vague look, when it still differs in basic functionality, l

by 1Y3 7y ago

I love the idea of having a Linux distro that emulates macOS, but I see no point in copying only the vague look, when it still differs in basic functionality, like using different keyboard shortcuts. I don’t understand why (based on semi-thorough googling in the past) it is not possible to change all shortcuts to be like macOS (cmd-c instead of ctrl-c etc.)

vorticalbox 7y ago
You can go into the short cuts and set them up yourself.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
As much as elementary clearly takes inspiration from macOS, the developers have been quite clear that they're not trying to make a mac clone. You can agree or disagree with that mission, but it is what it is.
- scythe 7y ago
  One of the best things about macOS is the special character inputs, which is one place I think Apple has outshone their competitors for a while. Even if Elementary doesn’t introduce the same keybindings it would be nice to have some set up automatically without having to fiddle with the compose key settings. It’s a very common UX issue imho and also an area where you can easily “beat Windows”
  - lobo_tuerto 7y ago
    Special characters through the keyboard like these? ł€æßðđŧŋ«»¢“”←ħn↓ĸ→ø Those are input from just pressing ALT(right) + <SOME LETTER KEY> The € is ALTgr + e. ¢ is ALTgr + SHIFT + e.
    - whorleater 7y ago
      I'm not sure what GP means by special characters, but I use fedora workstation 30 for my day to day life and I can attest that Arabic and Chinese input are absolute garbage compared to OS X. Arabic key layout is different (which fine, OS X uses something non-standard anyways), but makes it absolutely impossible to customize it. Text boxes frequently jumble themselves up with left/right mixed input, while OS X handles this as expected. Chinese input is slightly better, as you don't have to deal with order wonkiness. But pinyin input is halfhearted at best, and requires a bunch of qol changes.
    - nkrisc 7y ago
      I don't know if it's what the OP meant, but on macOS you can hold a letter key, and it will pop up a little dialog with a bunch of similar characters (hold 'n' and chose from 'n' with various diacritical marks), and you can just press the corresponding number key to choose it. I'ts not as fast as a dedicated key shortcut if you're constantly using the same character, but it's far easier if you're only occasionally using various characters and don't want to remember different shortcuts.
      - SyneRyder 7y ago
        On macOS you can also type things like Opt-U to get an umlaut, followed by typing the letter you want underneath it (eg for ü, ë, ä, ö). ß is Opt-S, I think é is Opt-E E, etc. I prefer that to the AltGr+key shortcuts, which I find harder to remember. I don't use the Mac as my primary OS anymore, but that's one of the things I miss the most.
        lobo_tuerto 7y ago
        On Linux there are dedicated combination keys to put accents on characters like: ä, á, é, ë, etc. This is how it has always worked (I use a Latin-American keyboard layout). And I think it's the best of both worlds. If you wanted and your font supports it you could have: ṕẃéŕý (accent key + character key). All above without touching the AltGr key.
      - bscphil 7y ago
        Just tested this - it seems like a handy feature but apparently also dependent on the application using a specific textbox from the macOS UI toolkit. So it doesn't work in iTerm, and probably not in Firefox either? So not an "OS" feature exactly, and probably something the GTK folks could provide an equivalent for if they don't already.
    - scythe 7y ago
      Mostly the Latin-1 subset (plus East Asian overlines and the Chinese ‘v’ tone mark) and other characters that appear in names, but also “”‘’–•—¿¡§ are all rather useful if you can get to them. The math symbols for partial, adjoint, sqrt, almost equal, not equal, equivalent, isomorphic, geq and leq are also nice; others like sum and integral are pretty but require too many decorations to be useful anyway. On OS X last time I used it if you press eg Option-u you get a hanging diaeresis and the next character you type will be umlautted if possible. You can enable this on X with [Compose]+:, but you usually have to fiddle with settings to enable it, and that’s not the Elementary philosophy. Too often I want to use the proper spelling of someone’s name and I run off to Google to get the symbol.
  - cobalt 7y ago
    windows 10 did add win+;/win+. which pops up an emoji picker. one of the tabs is symbols and has a pretty good range of them you can also add languages and use the on screen keyboard in said languages
- SirLotsaLocks 7y ago
  Yeah, I like the fact that they took the style, and built off of it. it gives it personality.
diffeomorphism 7y ago
Linux has 3 keybinding schemes among which you can choose: emacs, vim and cua (what IBM introduced some years later, ctrl+c etc.). I don't see why introducing a fourth one would help? The main reason you can't simply flick a global switch between those three but have to do it per app seems to be the license of GNU readline.
- everybodyknows 7y ago
  Care to recommend a virtual terminal client app that supports Emacs keybindings well? Preferably available from Ubuntu 'apt'.
  - lytedev 7y ago
    Is it cheating to say emacs itself?
  - mondoshawan 7y ago
    Well... emacs? :D Seriously, though: emacs has several terminal emulators built in like ansi-term, comint, and eshell.
- sooheon 7y ago
  The specific bindings vary by person and hardly matters, but having an extra modifier in the Command key is invaluable. It lets you properly "namespace" key binds (ctrl and meta for emacs commands, CMD for global) and prevents hacks like copying text in terminal being different from copying text anywhere else (ctrl-c vs ctrl-shift-c in windows and linux, always CMD-c in macos).
  - kitsunesoba 7y ago
    Every time I use Linux I get bitten by the terminal using a different copy/paste shortcut. Drives me nuts.
dylan604 7y ago
My first guess would be that the majority of keyboards that exist in the world do not have a CMD key.
- snazz 7y ago
  The command/⌘ key is just the logo/super/Windows key in a different spot.
  - sooheon 7y ago
    The CMD key is much better utilized by MacOS than the windows/super key is by windows/linux. Most OS-level things are under command, and I'm free to use readline/emacs bindings in any text inputs across the whole OS and never have them conflict with global bindings. Windows/linux still defaults to many OS commands being in the ctrl space (like ctrl-c for copy, not windows-c) which causes clobbering in the terminal, forcing people to use ctrl-shift-c, for instance.
    - cobalt 7y ago
      tbf, windows key shortcuts are actually OS specific. Clipboarding/etc must be implemented by the app in question. i think a better example would be alt-keys (alt-tab/etc)

by 1Y3 7y ago

vorticalbox 7y ago

You can go into the short cuts and set them up yourself.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

As much as elementary clearly takes inspiration from macOS, the developers have been quite clear that they're not trying to make a mac clone. You can agree or disagree with that mission, but it is what it is.

scythe 7y ago
One of the best things about macOS is the special character inputs, which is one place I think Apple has outshone their competitors for a while. Even if Elementary doesn’t introduce the same keybindings it would be nice to have some set up automatically without having to fiddle with the compose key settings. It’s a very common UX issue imho and also an area where you can easily “beat Windows”
- lobo_tuerto 7y ago
  Special characters through the keyboard like these? ł€æßðđŧŋ«»¢“”←ħn↓ĸ→ø Those are input from just pressing ALT(right) + <SOME LETTER KEY> The € is ALTgr + e. ¢ is ALTgr + SHIFT + e.
  - whorleater 7y ago
    I'm not sure what GP means by special characters, but I use fedora workstation 30 for my day to day life and I can attest that Arabic and Chinese input are absolute garbage compared to OS X. Arabic key layout is different (which fine, OS X uses something non-standard anyways), but makes it absolutely impossible to customize it. Text boxes frequently jumble themselves up with left/right mixed input, while OS X handles this as expected. Chinese input is slightly better, as you don't have to deal with order wonkiness. But pinyin input is halfhearted at best, and requires a bunch of qol changes.
  - nkrisc 7y ago
    I don't know if it's what the OP meant, but on macOS you can hold a letter key, and it will pop up a little dialog with a bunch of similar characters (hold 'n' and chose from 'n' with various diacritical marks), and you can just press the corresponding number key to choose it. I'ts not as fast as a dedicated key shortcut if you're constantly using the same character, but it's far easier if you're only occasionally using various characters and don't want to remember different shortcuts.
    - SyneRyder 7y ago
      On macOS you can also type things like Opt-U to get an umlaut, followed by typing the letter you want underneath it (eg for ü, ë, ä, ö). ß is Opt-S, I think é is Opt-E E, etc. I prefer that to the AltGr+key shortcuts, which I find harder to remember. I don't use the Mac as my primary OS anymore, but that's one of the things I miss the most.
      - lobo_tuerto 7y ago
        On Linux there are dedicated combination keys to put accents on characters like: ä, á, é, ë, etc. This is how it has always worked (I use a Latin-American keyboard layout). And I think it's the best of both worlds. If you wanted and your font supports it you could have: ṕẃéŕý (accent key + character key). All above without touching the AltGr key.
    - bscphil 7y ago
      Just tested this - it seems like a handy feature but apparently also dependent on the application using a specific textbox from the macOS UI toolkit. So it doesn't work in iTerm, and probably not in Firefox either? So not an "OS" feature exactly, and probably something the GTK folks could provide an equivalent for if they don't already.
  - scythe 7y ago
    Mostly the Latin-1 subset (plus East Asian overlines and the Chinese ‘v’ tone mark) and other characters that appear in names, but also “”‘’–•—¿¡§ are all rather useful if you can get to them. The math symbols for partial, adjoint, sqrt, almost equal, not equal, equivalent, isomorphic, geq and leq are also nice; others like sum and integral are pretty but require too many decorations to be useful anyway. On OS X last time I used it if you press eg Option-u you get a hanging diaeresis and the next character you type will be umlautted if possible. You can enable this on X with [Compose]+:, but you usually have to fiddle with settings to enable it, and that’s not the Elementary philosophy. Too often I want to use the proper spelling of someone’s name and I run off to Google to get the symbol.
- cobalt 7y ago
  windows 10 did add win+;/win+. which pops up an emoji picker. one of the tabs is symbols and has a pretty good range of them you can also add languages and use the on screen keyboard in said languages
SirLotsaLocks 7y ago
Yeah, I like the fact that they took the style, and built off of it. it gives it personality.

diffeomorphism 7y ago

Linux has 3 keybinding schemes among which you can choose: emacs, vim and cua (what IBM introduced some years later, ctrl+c etc.). I don't see why introducing a fourth one would help? The main reason you can't simply flick a global switch between those three but have to do it per app seems to be the license of GNU readline.

everybodyknows 7y ago
Care to recommend a virtual terminal client app that supports Emacs keybindings well? Preferably available from Ubuntu 'apt'.
- lytedev 7y ago
  Is it cheating to say emacs itself?
- mondoshawan 7y ago
  Well... emacs? :D Seriously, though: emacs has several terminal emulators built in like ansi-term, comint, and eshell.
sooheon 7y ago
The specific bindings vary by person and hardly matters, but having an extra modifier in the Command key is invaluable. It lets you properly "namespace" key binds (ctrl and meta for emacs commands, CMD for global) and prevents hacks like copying text in terminal being different from copying text anywhere else (ctrl-c vs ctrl-shift-c in windows and linux, always CMD-c in macos).
- kitsunesoba 7y ago
  Every time I use Linux I get bitten by the terminal using a different copy/paste shortcut. Drives me nuts.

dylan604 7y ago

My first guess would be that the majority of keyboards that exist in the world do not have a CMD key.

snazz 7y ago
The command/⌘ key is just the logo/super/Windows key in a different spot.
- sooheon 7y ago
  The CMD key is much better utilized by MacOS than the windows/super key is by windows/linux. Most OS-level things are under command, and I'm free to use readline/emacs bindings in any text inputs across the whole OS and never have them conflict with global bindings. Windows/linux still defaults to many OS commands being in the ctrl space (like ctrl-c for copy, not windows-c) which causes clobbering in the terminal, forcing people to use ctrl-shift-c, for instance.
  - cobalt 7y ago
    tbf, windows key shortcuts are actually OS specific. Clipboarding/etc must be implemented by the app in question. i think a better example would be alt-keys (alt-tab/etc)