10 ms·

The next generation of wall chargers

247 points by rutenspitz 7y ago

ur-whale 7y ago
Would anyone knowledgeable care to explaine why GaN based charges are more efficient than Silicon based ones ?
- fwip 7y ago
  Basically, GaN has less electric resistance than silicon. They generate less heat when used in high voltage (or amperage, depending on your viewpoint) applications. We can't make GaN transistors nearly as small as we can make silicon ones, but transformers/chargers don't need many transistors in them, so it's fine.
- jSully24 7y ago
  This article describes that: https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/1/18051974/gallium-nitride-anker-material-silicon-semiconductor-energy https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/1/18051974/gallium-nitride-... (link was in the article).
  - ur-whale 7y ago
    I did read the linked article. It doesn't really explain anything.
- madengr 7y ago
  GaN has a higher breakdown voltage than Si, and a higher drift velocity, which allows a faster switching speed (for the equivalent bias). For power supplies and switched mode RF amplifiers, you need to switch the transistor on and off as fast as possible; ideally an open or short circuit. During the time is is transitioning from on to off, it is dissipating power, thus losing efficiency in your circuit. If you can operate at a higher bias, your passive support circuitry can operate at a lower current (lower I^2*R losses) not to mention smaller due to higher frequency (smaller inductors and capacitors). The faster switching also generates more harmonics, which can align in phase to cause higher voltage transients, thus you need a higher breakdown. The issue with GaN is fabricating it. It is a compound semiconductor grown with epitaxy (layer by layer) and has to be lattice matched to a carrier substrate, unlike Si which is diffusion doped into the bulk Si substrate. So GaN is maybe at 8” wafers while Si is much bigger. Some GaN is on Si carrier (cheaper but lower thermal conductivity) and some in SiC (expensive but better thermal conductivity). The goal is to grow it on diamond, but again the lattice matching is a problem. The longer term goal is diamond semiconductors. Maybe 30 years from now that will replace GaN, as GaN is doing to GaAs and Si for certain applications.
amq 7y ago
Still waiting for the next generation of USB-C hubs. Currently, almost all cause Wi-Fi issues, most will have Windows complain about "limited display connection".
- madengr 7y ago
  That’s just due to cost cutting (poor shielding). GaN will allow a faster slew rate (higher break down voltage), so emissions will actually become worse. The FCC needs to enforce emissions regulations. I remember when PCs (even the C64) had cases to meet emissions requirements. Now you see PCs in glass cases. It really sucks doing amateur radio in an urban area due to spectrum pollution.
stefan_ 7y ago
Ironically, the best USB-C charger for something like a phone (laptops come with chargers, anyway) I've found is simply the Raspberry Pi 4 USB-C charger - very cheap ($10), small, plenty power (15W), fixed cable and no fucking blue Anker LED that can illuminate your bedroom.
- vanniv 7y ago
  Monoprice has a really nice line of multi-port chargers called "Obsidian" whose feature list includes "no lights" In particular, the 60W USB-C + 3x12W USB-A brick is really nice.
- tjoff 7y ago
  For your bedroom you'd really want an old 5W charger. Why turbo charge and put permanent strain on your battery when anything that takes 6+ hours will do.
  - jonplackett 7y ago
    Apparently (with iPhones at least) you shouldn’t have to worry about that anymore. https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-ios-13s-optimized-battery-charging-save-your-battery/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-ios-13s-optimized-battery-...
    - mrpurple_ 7y ago
      Charging slower is always better for lion based batteries. Period
      - IndrekR 7y ago
        For battery lifetime -- also charging to lower voltage and stopping discharging at higher voltage. Cathode will stay intact longer this way and metallic lithium has less chance on plating the anode.
        sm4rk0 7y ago
Nasrudith 7y ago
I know that "silicion" isn't just pure silicon given dopings but I can't help but ponder the environmental and toxicological differences between the two. Gallium nitride seems loke it might be more toxic and gives me a sneaking suspicion they will be a "compact floreacent tube" solution that is a flash in the pan decade standard that gets replaced by something far less toxic anyway (LEDs). However I know that I don't know the details so I cannot judge only raise concerns which I hope were already addressed. I understand the logistics issues involved in standardization of repeatably used sockets but USB chargers are so very "unhygenic" from a security perspective. Proper design from the data end shouldn't allow any unexpected changes but that is error prone in practice. It is sort of like sharing cups - in theory the immune system should take care of any pathogens but in practice it is a needless risk. Getting into engineer dreams, an ideal design would involve readily apparent subsets between charge and data pins even if they occupy the same socket. So any charger honeypots to plant or extract data would be obviously untrustworthy.
- zootboy 7y ago
  Guess what semiconductor white LEDs use? It's gallium nitride.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  > Gallium nitride seems like it might be more toxic... Surely not more toxic than gallium arsenide. The amounts of material involved in a manufactured product are pretty tiny, so the semiconductor material is not hugely concerning.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    Thanks for the correction.
- kens 7y ago
  There's no need to ponder the toxicity of gallium nitride and worry about your "sneaking suspicion" that it's toxic. It's in the "may cause skin irritation" level of toxicity, so really not worth worrying about. https://www.ltschem.com/msds/GaN.pdf https://www.ltschem.com/msds/GaN.pdf
nwienert 7y ago
And then there’s this thing which is smaller than either and 60W https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBYVF4Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Fud5Db6TJ9ZD9 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBYVF4Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Fu...
- CoolGuySteve 7y ago
  I just bought one of these a few days ago. It's small and light, definitely an improvement over most power bricks but it's only a little smaller than my wife's MacBook Air charger
- cjcampbell 7y ago
  I recommend the RavPower 61W GaN over Innergie. The Innergie is smaller, but it is 3x the cost and, in my experience, less reliable and less ergonomic. I purchased the Innergie after a previous travel charger failed. Loved it at first, but started experiencing issues pretty quickly. The first issue I encountered was that the plug would fold in frequently while I was trying to plug into outlet. Over the course of a couple months, I started seeing more issues with the reliability of the charger as well. It never completely failed, but I would often have to play around with reversing the cable and the direction of the outlet side usb-c in order to get charging to start. This was a bit concerning to me given that complaint USB-C cables are completely bi-directional.
  - codetrotter 7y ago
    Anyone have a good recommendation for a wall charger similar to RavPower mentioned in parent comment but with EU plug? Additionally, is there a good charger with EU plug that I can use to charge both my MacBook Air 2018 (USB-C) and my iPhone X with at the same time?
    - StringyBob 7y ago
      Not the answer you were looking for, but I couldn’t find one so got the ravpower 61W and an extra small international adapter.
    - 7y ago
standardUser 7y ago
I'm still shocked at how poorly most plugs are designed for fitting in various outlets and power strips.
- moonbug 7y ago
  that's mostly because American domestic outlets are the worst in the world.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Do you have an example you'd hold up as the ideal or best case outlet?
    - ST2084 7y ago
      UK
      - jjeaff 7y ago
        Some cool features that I have seen. But aren't they huge? Also, more expensive to manufacture?
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - Nextgrid 7y ago
        UK is probably the safest but it’s also bulky and presents an unlikely kind of danger: it tends to lay with the pins upward when on the floor which is deadly when stepping on them in the dark. European plugs IMO have the right balance between safety and size, with the bonus that they don’t stab your feet if you step on them.
        JadeNB 7y ago
        > UK is probably the safest but it’s also bulky and presents an unlikely kind of danger: it tends to lay with the pins upward when on the floor which is deadly when stepping on them in the dark. A feature mentioned even in an article praising them as the best in the world (https://www.fastcompany.com/3032807/why-england-has-the-best-wall-sockets-on-earth https://www.fastcompany.com/3032807/why-england-has-the-best...), linked elsewhere by dpeck (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21678124 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21678124): > It’s a truly brilliant design. The only caveat is that, as with Lego, the rugged, bottom-heavy design of a U.K. plug makes it an almost scientifically perfect caltrop.
Tade0 7y ago
How do does gallium nitride stack up against silicon carbide? I heard the latter is responsible for the recent increase in efficiency of EVs.
- madengr 7y ago
  Faster switching speed for the equivalent breakdown, at least from an RF amplifier perspective. SiC was an interim until GaN was developed, and is essentially obsoleted now. What’s interesting is how the DOD heavily invested in GaN technology in 90s and 00s, pushing the USA ahead of Japan in compound semiconductor. Weather that lead will stay; who knows. The Chinese have a GaN fab now. GaN is critical for RADAR and higher power SATCOM, so big defense support that has dual use for civilian wireless comms.
  - baybal2 7y ago
    > Faster switching speed for the equivalent breakdown, at least from an RF amplifier perspective. SiC was an interim until GaN was developed, and is essentially obsoleted now. Wait wait wait... GaN and SiC have very, very different use profiles, and characteristics. SiC is by no means obsolete, and nor are purpose made silicon switches. SiC is here to stay because of one very unique trait among all other semiconductors - a very pronounced negative temperature coefficient, and without extreme non-linearity. Second to that is more or less linear threshold voltage temperature coefficient. GaN has positive threshold voltage temperature coefficient. Third, SiC can simply operate at higher temperatures, and have known longer lifespan. GaN's current limits are WAY lower. Fourth, transfer characteristic... Si, GaN, and SiC are all very different. This is one of few measures on which plain silicon beats contenders.
    - madengr 7y ago
      I was thinking in terms of RF amps. Cree was making SiC FETs several years ago, but I think it’s all GaN on SiC now. There was a SiC fab in CA making RF parts, but I think they went belly-up. All the SiC FETs topped out a 2.5 GHz. How does the negative temp coefficient help; stability for very high temps? I know the positive temp coefficient was an issue in RF BJT, requiring ballast resistors for stabilization, but those are not needed in any FETs. The positive temp coefficient should be useful for GaN as long as you have temp stabilization in the bias network; all of my amps did. Good point about the high temp. I know of some oil drill electronics in SiC. I just though SiC was dead for RF.
paul7986 7y ago
Are there any wireless charging pads or surfaces that I can buy/use with a phone case that has a thick backing?
- Scoundreller 7y ago
  A dirt cheap one still works with an otter box for me.
SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
WOW... This is a horribly misleading article and discussion. The silicon of the switching circuit PALES in comparison to the real magic here. The wattage capability and size of these chargers is only possible because of US “power delivery”. These chargers are NOT hitting 30+ watts at 5V traditional USB voltage. Yes, there is another power and ground wire pair in the cable, but iirc they got smaller in diameter. These devices are small and cool there because your device can charge at up to 20V now. GAN didn’t outright make that happen on the source or sink side. It didn’t hurt, it’s cool, but the difference is smaller than they are implying by comparing a 5V device to a 20V device. An article that goes on about fast charging and never says “20V” once is not telling you the full story.
- goosehonk 7y ago
  I believe the point was that GaN semiconductors make these chargers more compact, cooler, and lighter than their silicon competitors.
  - SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
    But that isn’t really the case. These chargers wouldn’t be pushing 30+W to device at this size if they weren’t also at 20V. One way before the other! Lock it down to 5V and the size goes way up. The comparison to Apple’s 5V and 5W from like 2008 is at best misleading. Are these smaller because of better silicon, yes, are they marginally smaller and the real difference is USB pd, also yes.
    - Terretta 7y ago
      No, the real difference isn’t PD2. They have models with identical specs where size difference is not the PD but material.
- Terretta 7y ago
  You can falsify your own argument by checking out the range of PD2 chargers from Anker or RavPower, observing the models with similar wattage and same multi voltages including up to 20V, and then noting the size differences. They’re not making the new models bigger just for fun.
ksec 7y ago
I asked a year ago When could we expect GaN to be more widely available and it seems the answer is still true as of today. GaN mosfet costs 10x more [1] than a silicon one of similar power rating. And the multiples gets wider at 15x for 1K units. I doubt we will see Apple include a GaN charger as default for quite some time. [1]: IPAW60R380CEXKSA1 (silicon) costs $1.26, IGT60R190D1SATMA1 (GaN) costs $13.
- huslage 7y ago
  I just got a new 16" MacBook Pro and the power brick is 96W, but the same size as the 60W from a few years ago. I'd say this is likely a GaN unit, but I don't have any proof of that.
  - dmd 7y ago
    Lots of people have opened them up already; it's not GaN.
  - ksec 7y ago
    Well no, it is not, [1] is the world smallest 100W Charger with GaN and 4 Ports. And it is even smaller than the 61W MBP Charger with 1 Port. And the link to my previous question's answer [2] from an electrical engineer. I will paste it here as well. Cost, and the fact that it doesn't actually buy you much. I've evaluated GaN for a couple recent designs I've been involved in and found that its benefits simply didn't justify its costs. What GaN actually does is, mainly, decrease switching losses. That means switching frequency can go up, or efficiency, or power density. These are all good things, to be sure, but the magnitude of improvement GaN brings to most designs is simply not large enough to justify the cost of the parts and the increased design attention needed to use them. (They're fussy little things.) That said, I'm bullish on GaN in the medium-term. There are some cool tricks that are infeasible or impossible without them, and they really are better in a lot of ways. It'll just take a while for them to trickle downmarket, and even still they're not going to be replacing Si FETs anytime soon. (Part of the lag in GaN adoption is simply that Si FETs have gotten really, really good.) Yes, size is the main product-level advantage of GaN. But it only lets some of the system shrink; for something like a mains charger, you still need the isolation magnetics, so your overall size is still constrained. And at the power levels of a few watts that many chargers work with, Si FETs are simply good enough. A 5W USB charger isn't going to get any smaller with GaN. It only starts to get interesting with really high power densities. [1] https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2019/11/HyperJuice-100W-GaN-Charger-2.png https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2019/11/Hyper... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18853313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18853313
moreati 7y ago
For Brits and visitors to our shores there's https://www.themu.co.uk/collections/muone https://www.themu.co.uk/collections/muone and https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/muone/mu-two-next-generation-63w-dual-usb-type-c-wall-charger https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/muone/mu-two-next-gener...
- Angostura 7y ago
  The Anker box mentioned is £20 on Amazon.co.uk
  - moreati 7y ago
    I mentioned the Mu because it has a folding UK plug. Small chargers lose much of their smallness when using a standard UK plug.
    - dspillett 7y ago
      I've had an older Mu for some time for travelling. There are much cheaper copies, and alternative designs, these days* but I can't vouch for their quality as I've never used them. The Mu seems well-built and after many uses still feels solid. [*] https://idaffodil.co.uk/products/slim-foldable-usb-charger-august-umc301-1-port-for-iphone-ipad-and-android?variant=22651793997888&currency=GBP https://idaffodil.co.uk/products/slim-foldable-usb-charger-a... to pick one at random from a quick search, or https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07VDJLD1Q/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07VDJLD1Q/ for C-type though that is only 15W not 45W like the Mu C-type models.
floatboth 7y ago
Any of these fancy GaN chargers have USB-IF certification?
eloisius 7y ago
This article reminded me of the mysterious murder of Shane Todd from a few years ago https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Shane_Todd https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Shane_Todd
dzhiurgis 7y ago
> It’s not perfect yet: Anker’s 30W Atom PD 1 struggles to power something as large as a 13-inch MacBook Pro Umm wot, maybe older MacBooks, maybe when gaming or rendering. For writing code and browsing on a 15incher I'm averaging 20watts. Cheap 12v cigarette lighter one that does 24w is enough (but barely) to keep things running for me. If I turn off most of apps I get as low 6watts on a hexacore device. I use iStat menus to monitor my power use which is quite exciting.
- javagram 7y ago
  Apple’s recommended charger for a 13inch MBP is a 61W adapter, for the 15 inch is an 87W and for the 16 inch is a 96W. Although you can use an under-specced adapter it probably won’t be enough to power and charge the system while fully using the CPU, GPU, and screen.
  - dzhiurgis 7y ago
    Basically you just repeated what I just said... I am actually considering buying 30W one for it's portability. But then again I am not a YouTube influencer that occasionally games and cuts videos (you know, the person that Apple designs it's computers nowadays for).
    - Tagbert 7y ago
      This RAV power 61w charger is smaller than the one in the referenced article. I have one and travel with it a lot. https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc112-gan-tech-61w-wall-charger https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc112-gan-tech-61w-wall...
    - kalleboo 7y ago
      > the person that Apple designs it's computers nowadays for I develop software in Apple's programming language using Apple's frameworks and Apple's own IDE, and power usage is through the roof. 50W while typing (and auto-complete is doing it's job) and 80W while building. I think it's odd and quite rude that you dismiss anyone who has higher computing than just typing some basic text and browsing the web to be "a YouTube influencer". If all you need is the computing power of an Eee PC then yeah, I don't think you are Apple's target market.
agurk 7y ago
When I got a new laptop this summer I researched what chargers were out there, as I was fed up with carrying the normal assortment of cables and chargers. I settled for another GaN charger - the Innergie Powergear 60c[0] which is a very decent size for 60w and not having a mains lead built into it (still very common on non-mac chargers) makes it a lot more compact. I travel a lot, often with more than one laptop, so now I'm very happy I can charge all my electronics with this one charger and also with the changeable country tips it's more compact than a travel adaptor. The only downside I've had with it is the US power tip got bent the first time I used it - I contacted Innergie to see if I could get a replacement, but they never got back to me. [0] http://www.myinnergie.com/sg/product/136 http://www.myinnergie.com/sg/product/136
- p1mrx 7y ago
  Their photos all seem to be hiding the connector between the unit and the power tip. Is that standard or proprietary?
  - agurk 7y ago
    I assume it's proprietary (are there even standards for this kind of connector?). The charger body has two fixed pins inside a circular collar with two tabs on it that the tip is placed over then rotated 45 degrees to lock.
    - p1mrx 7y ago
      It's pretty common to use IEC C7/C8 for the PSU<->AC connection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320#C7/C8_coupler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320#C7/C8_coupler
- lazyjeff 7y ago
  I've got the same one, very pricey, but amazing to travel with compared to the giant macbook charger. It's only 60W but charges almost as fast as the 87W one for 15" macbooks. It's also really nice to be able to charge all my travel gadgets with one small charger, reducing the number of cables and chargers I have to carry. I'm hoping that giant power bricks and those adapters that power via barrel plugs will disappear soon, as I find them to be unwieldy and dirt magnets. Computer monitors are most guilty of having some of the biggest power bricks, and I'd love to see them replaced with regular power cables (the ones that plug into desktop computers), or the monitor be powered over usb-c so any regular 100W usb-c adapter can power them.
jedberg 7y ago
Way back in the 90s aerospace was replacing silicon with gallium arsenide to make more efficient and faster chips. I’m glad to see it’s finally reaching a useful commercial application.
- kbaker 7y ago
  Note that this is Gallium Nitride (GaN,) not Gallium Arsenide (GaAs).
  - jedberg 7y ago
    Right but I believe it is a similar process built in the same R&D.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Had forgotten about that. I worked at the Rockwell science center at that time and went into their clean room once and had to put on a “bunny suit” to work on some computers inside it. They had a gallium chip product of some sort.
  - jedberg 7y ago
    My dad worked there too. :)
    - mixmastamyk 7y ago
      Interesting, curious as to who.
BurningFrog 7y ago
Uninformed basic question: Would these charge my phone faster than the standard ones?
- thebean11 7y ago
  If your device accepts wattage (current? not totally sure about the terminology) higher than your current charger can provide, then yes. Basically, devices will charge at minimum(phone_rate, charger_rate).
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    > wattage (current? not totally sure about the terminology) Power is measured in watts. Current is measured in amps. Potential difference / voltage is measured in volts.
- mastax 7y ago
  Unfortunately, it depends. There are various standards that devices use to negotiate how much power to send over the USB cable. These chargers tend to support all the popular standards so they'll charge your phone at the fastest possible speed (unless you have a OnePlus or OPPO phone). If you have a midrange or higher Android phone, the included charger likely charges at max speed. If you have an iPhone with the 5W adapter, any of these adapters will charge faster than that.
  - BurningFrog 7y ago
    Thanks! My Pixel 4 charges at 18W, and I'm probably good as is.
jdkee 7y ago
Are these chargers UL certified? I would be wary of using higher wattage chargers that have no been properly tested.
- corey_moncure 7y ago
  Safety, testing, and labor protections are so last millenium. Profit seeking at the cost of the natural environment and human lives is now back in fashion. Nobody cares if the $10 trinket they brought from A----- blows up and burns their house down with their children inside. Today's hyper-informed and connected consumer can't be bothered with such considerations! That's why you can't find Made in USA or Made in Japan anywhere you look anymore. The USA is just Finished. We just can't compete anymore. Look at our broken economy! Japan needs immigrants to survive. C----'s star is rising, man, get with the times already.
IndrekR 7y ago
I think GaN transistors are a major thing in the next decade. Designed a GaN FET based small vehicle motor controller few years ago and similar size/speed/efficiency is currently not achievable with any other mass produced transistor type. There used to be only small players on the field (GaN Systems and EPC) but now Panasonic and Infineon have started offering their versions. Expecting the prices to go down and volumes go up.
martingordon 7y ago
I'm still waiting for a USB-C charger with more than two ports. Until then, I'm sticking with USB-A cables for everything except my MacBook Pro. For travel (where outlets are often at a premium), I use a four port USB-A charger on a nightstand to charge 2 iPhones and an Apple Watch (this one: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-Foldable-PowerPort-Samsung/dp/B00VH8G1SY https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-Foldable-PowerPort-Sams...).
- sm4rk0 7y ago
  Something like this? https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000237954145.html https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000237954145.html
baybal2 7y ago
A man in OEM manufacturing here. Not an electronics engineer professionally, but more or less involuntary having to deal with it. First, I will say that GaN is not a make or break deal yet now. There are very high performance silicon switches that can produce equal gains for use cases in consumer electronic. In absolute comparison GaN is of course winning over Si, but use case wise, not so much. GaN's main appeal is that you can retrofit it into simplest buck topologies, and get instant gains without any extra hassle. GaN works best for low current, low voltage applications you normally see in consumer electronics. Everywhere else besides RF, it's not a clear improvement over silicon. For long time GaN existed in a narrow niche of high frequency circuits, where people were OK with n channel depletion mode device with a lot of tricky sides. Its use as a power switch is relatively novel. Enhancement mode devices are now on the market, but there is a catch. Because p-GaN is nowhere near as good as n-GaN, pure GaN enhancement mode devices are nowhere near as good as depletion mode devices. For this reason, some companies are trying a an approach with hybridised GaN-Si device to overcome that. Again, that is way more tricky and expensive than a single material device. Now, back to chargers. It is easily possible to make more compact chargers without any exotic switches GaNfets included for as long as you put just a little bit more brains to engineering by going to better topologies. What a lot of charger makers do these days to go along with the trend for smaller chargers is to turn up their switching frequencies as much as possible without melting the charger. They still do miscalculations about that, and you now have a lot of molten/burnt chargers as a result. They are being misguided by the switching speed narrative, and completely miss that point that size of passive components has to do with way more things than just switching speed. First, they can throw away the standalone rectification, gaining some efficiency in the process. Second, they should either go with some advanced flat transformer setup with appropriate resonant topology. Or they can throw away transformer altogether and use piezo transformer, or capacitive isolation. Third, a separate buck for last stage DC-DC can also be thrown away if you use multitap transformer and some electronic switching. Transformers are by far biggest contributors to charger volume, and weight, and are bigger than capacitors in some cases. Throwing them away will provide way more space savings, along with other extraneous components. So think twice about going the GaN route before considering things above first. Switching performance in a typical AC-DC is by far not the biggest of your problems.
mrfusion 7y ago
Does this breakthrough apply to other things like inverters?
WillPostForFood 7y ago
100w GaN coming from Sanho. They've done good products in the past, so very optimistic about this. Two USB A and two USB C ports. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-worlds-first-and-smallest-100w-gan-charger https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-wo...
Ottolay 7y ago
Good discussion of SiC vs GaN for EV applications: https://chargedevs.com/features/opinion-sic-vs-gan-semiconductors-for-ev-power-converters/ https://chargedevs.com/features/opinion-sic-vs-gan-semicondu...
Animats 7y ago
Not seeing UL or CSA approval numbers on those. That's important for switching power supplies, especially small ones. A switching power supply is always a few milliseconds from being a short circuit across the input. And FETs fail in the ON state. That's why those things are inherently fire risks and need protection circuitry. Really tiny ones make it worse; if they fail, there's not much space to dissipate heat before something blows and opens the circuit.
- scottlamb 7y ago
  Ugh. I ordered the four-port one they mentioned without considering it might not have UL approval. I'll be looking for the symbol when it comes now. Thanks for bringing it up. If the thing works as advertised and is safe, it's amazingly useful. It should quickly charge absolutely every device I have except my work 2015 MacBook Pro (that I'll likely replace soon), and up to for of them at once. (Eg laptop, phone, battery pack, and wireless headphones simultaneously.) Handle US or EU input. And be very compact.
- bassman9000 7y ago
  Aren't they also noisy AF? Wouldn't that affect power meters, or other measuring devices?
- mherdeg 7y ago
  Gosh that's odd; Ravpower has a blog post about UL certification's importance ( https://blog.ravpower.com/2018/04/usb-charger-safety-certifications-recalls/ https://blog.ravpower.com/2018/04/usb-charger-safety-certifi... ) but you're right, their RP-PC104 45W GaN USB-C wall charger and its manual don't list UL certification information ( https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0257/5656/5579/files/RP-PC104_User_Manual.pdf?23087 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0257/5656/5579/files/RP-PC... , https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc104-45w-pd-wall-charger https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc104-45w-pd-wall-charg... ).
  - tpowell 7y ago
    I’ve had the slim 45W RavPower one since June and it’s great. It’s almost startling how small it is. I much prefer it in the bag for coffee shop trips, etc. I use it with my 15” MBP and I haven’t seen any power issues with plenty of Chrome tabs and InDesign/Photoshop running. I usually have the extension cord on the 87W one at home—it’s so nice not to have to lug that whole assembly or look for the smaller attachment.
Tagbert 7y ago
I wonder why they didn’t include the RAVPower 61w GaN charger. It is smaller than the “Slim” model and has folding prongs. https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc112-gan-tech-61w-wall-charger https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc112-gan-tech-61w-wall...
dclaw 7y ago
I love how no one is talking about how this article is from January of this year... Anker has a newer version that is even smaller now. It may only be 18W and rated for phones, but it matches the size of the original 5W Apple charger. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07WRKXQ8W https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07WRKXQ8W
jbverschoor 7y ago
N mention of the innergie 60c Which is 60w, changeable us/EU/uk
Camillo 7y ago
Ok, but they're USB-C, meaning there is an 80% chance they implement the spec incorrectly (resulting in weird issues with random devices), and a 10% chance that they are straight up unsafe. Benson is no longer updating his list AFAIK, but that's not because people have learned to do USB-C correctly; they haven't, e.g. [0] [0]: https://medium.com/@leung.benson/how-to-design-a-proper-usb-c-power-sink-hint-not-the-way-raspberry-pi-4-did-it-f470d7a5910 https://medium.com/@leung.benson/how-to-design-a-proper-usb-...
lhl 7y ago
One of my minor goals for 2020 is to switch all the gear I carry around to being USB-C PD. I've been doing some research on the subject, so just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in (some of this stuff mentioned in other comments). There's a pretty good site, https://www.chargerlab.com/ https://www.chargerlab.com/ (see also: https://twitter.com/chargerlab https://twitter.com/chargerlab ) that's dedicated to reviewing charging peripherals. I started off the year with an Innergie 60C, which has worked great for everything I've thrown at it and is tiny (55mL volume, 88g, 60W USB-C PD). It was on-sale recently, but even at full price has been worth it for me. (Although the newer RavPower PD Pioneer 61W is a good alternative that's almost as small and 1/3 the price.) I'm looking forward to adding the upcoming Sanho HyperJuice 100W charger (about twice the size, but a bunch more ports) https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-worlds-first-and-smallest-100w-gan-charger https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-wo... Instead of the Anker PD1 18W, for a small charger, I use the Anker PIQ 30W - it's very slim, which actually makes it much easier to carry around. Also, the IMO folding plugs (and extra juice) are definitely worth the extra volume. Recently, for my Mavic Pro 2, I just got a cheap Cablcc USB-C to Plug Receptacle Charger cable and a RCGEEK car charger that seems to work well as a nice 2-in-1 (it only saves a tiny bit of volume and weight over the wall charging but it also provides car charging). Also, although I'm unsure of how often I'll need it, I got a 100Wh Zendure Super Tank power bank (which provides USB-C PD 100W charging), since it was discounted heavily for Black Friday (it was only $100 on sale vs $200+ for other similar options). Also, I travel internationally a lot, and the MOGICS Donut has been my go-to combination power strip and adapter - it's the best/most compact device I've found (and has 2 USB-A chargers built in to handly legacy devices). https://www.mogics.com/3824-2 https://www.mogics.com/3824-2
- dspillett 7y ago
  I'm similarly moving to USB-C-PD where I can when things need replacing or otherwise updating. One thing to watch for with decices that use the same port for in and out though: 1. Portable charger runs out of juice before completely charging running laptop. 2. Shortly thereafter laptop notices an empty battery connected. 3. Laptop dutifully starts sending power the other way to recharge the battery...
- notacoward 7y ago
paggle 7y ago
If I built a new house today I’d wire 12 volts DC in addition to 110VAC. Safe for kids and fewer unsightly wall warts.
- m0xte 7y ago
  Also impractical due to I^2R losses.
  - paggle 7y ago
    Not if you has an in-wall supply in each room.
    - m0xte 7y ago
      I’ll stick with the AC thanks. Having a house full of switchers is going to be hell.
      - paggle 7y ago
        I already have a house full of switchers, with all the wall warts! I've got at least 15 that are always plugged in.
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  Was recently thinking that single pair power over Ethernet could probably handle 90% of the use case for residential power. 50W is enough for a LED/Fluorescent lighting, power a laptop, lighting, charge your phone.
sgt101 7y ago
My levono comes with a 65w charger that's not much bigger than the 45 w charger shown here... What's the big deal?
caseyf7 7y ago
This is an area we needed Jony Ive to dedicate some time to improving. An Apple Pro charger for road warriors designed by Jony would be an awesome parting gift to the world.
throwaway9d0291 7y ago
Since people are throwing out chargers they like, here's my current favourite: https://satechi.net/products/75w-dual-type-c-pd-travel-charger https://satechi.net/products/75w-dual-type-c-pd-travel-charg... It's fantastic for travel. It can charge my laptop (USB-C), Apple Watch + iPhone (USB-A) and power bank (USB-C) all at the same time. It also has a detachable AC cable so you can swap it before you leave instead of carrying an international plug adapter.
Ottolay 7y ago
There are PC power supplies with Ga-N transistors these days, but seems they are so far used only for the very top end. https://www.anandtech.com/show/12645/the-corsair-ax1600i-psu-review-unparalleled-performance https://www.anandtech.com/show/12645/the-corsair-ax1600i-psu...
Havoc 7y ago
Is this a mains frequency thing? I saw the GaN stuff on US Amazon but cost and specs seemed worse than the uk ones. eg the uk Anker 60W ones cost less look about the same size can do 30W PD and has another 5 ports too I just don’t see the value proposition of these GaN ones

247 points by rutenspitz 7y ago

ur-whale 7y ago

Would anyone knowledgeable care to explaine why GaN based charges are more efficient than Silicon based ones ?

fwip 7y ago
Basically, GaN has less electric resistance than silicon. They generate less heat when used in high voltage (or amperage, depending on your viewpoint) applications. We can't make GaN transistors nearly as small as we can make silicon ones, but transformers/chargers don't need many transistors in them, so it's fine.
jSully24 7y ago
This article describes that: https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/1/18051974/gallium-nitride-anker-material-silicon-semiconductor-energy https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/1/18051974/gallium-nitride-... (link was in the article).
- ur-whale 7y ago
  I did read the linked article. It doesn't really explain anything.
madengr 7y ago
GaN has a higher breakdown voltage than Si, and a higher drift velocity, which allows a faster switching speed (for the equivalent bias). For power supplies and switched mode RF amplifiers, you need to switch the transistor on and off as fast as possible; ideally an open or short circuit. During the time is is transitioning from on to off, it is dissipating power, thus losing efficiency in your circuit. If you can operate at a higher bias, your passive support circuitry can operate at a lower current (lower I^2*R losses) not to mention smaller due to higher frequency (smaller inductors and capacitors). The faster switching also generates more harmonics, which can align in phase to cause higher voltage transients, thus you need a higher breakdown. The issue with GaN is fabricating it. It is a compound semiconductor grown with epitaxy (layer by layer) and has to be lattice matched to a carrier substrate, unlike Si which is diffusion doped into the bulk Si substrate. So GaN is maybe at 8” wafers while Si is much bigger. Some GaN is on Si carrier (cheaper but lower thermal conductivity) and some in SiC (expensive but better thermal conductivity). The goal is to grow it on diamond, but again the lattice matching is a problem. The longer term goal is diamond semiconductors. Maybe 30 years from now that will replace GaN, as GaN is doing to GaAs and Si for certain applications.

amq 7y ago

Still waiting for the next generation of USB-C hubs. Currently, almost all cause Wi-Fi issues, most will have Windows complain about "limited display connection".

madengr 7y ago
That’s just due to cost cutting (poor shielding). GaN will allow a faster slew rate (higher break down voltage), so emissions will actually become worse. The FCC needs to enforce emissions regulations. I remember when PCs (even the C64) had cases to meet emissions requirements. Now you see PCs in glass cases. It really sucks doing amateur radio in an urban area due to spectrum pollution.

stefan_ 7y ago

Ironically, the best USB-C charger for something like a phone (laptops come with chargers, anyway) I've found is simply the Raspberry Pi 4 USB-C charger - very cheap ($10), small, plenty power (15W), fixed cable and no fucking blue Anker LED that can illuminate your bedroom.

vanniv 7y ago
Monoprice has a really nice line of multi-port chargers called "Obsidian" whose feature list includes "no lights" In particular, the 60W USB-C + 3x12W USB-A brick is really nice.
tjoff 7y ago
For your bedroom you'd really want an old 5W charger. Why turbo charge and put permanent strain on your battery when anything that takes 6+ hours will do.
- jonplackett 7y ago
  Apparently (with iPhones at least) you shouldn’t have to worry about that anymore. https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-ios-13s-optimized-battery-charging-save-your-battery/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/can-ios-13s-optimized-battery-...
  - mrpurple_ 7y ago
    Charging slower is always better for lion based batteries. Period
    - IndrekR 7y ago
      For battery lifetime -- also charging to lower voltage and stopping discharging at higher voltage. Cathode will stay intact longer this way and metallic lithium has less chance on plating the anode.
      - sm4rk0 7y ago

Nasrudith 7y ago

I know that "silicion" isn't just pure silicon given dopings but I can't help but ponder the environmental and toxicological differences between the two. Gallium nitride seems loke it might be more toxic and gives me a sneaking suspicion they will be a "compact floreacent tube" solution that is a flash in the pan decade standard that gets replaced by something far less toxic anyway (LEDs). However I know that I don't know the details so I cannot judge only raise concerns which I hope were already addressed. I understand the logistics issues involved in standardization of repeatably used sockets but USB chargers are so very "unhygenic" from a security perspective. Proper design from the data end shouldn't allow any unexpected changes but that is error prone in practice. It is sort of like sharing cups - in theory the immune system should take care of any pathogens but in practice it is a needless risk. Getting into engineer dreams, an ideal design would involve readily apparent subsets between charge and data pins even if they occupy the same socket. So any charger honeypots to plant or extract data would be obviously untrustworthy.

zootboy 7y ago
Guess what semiconductor white LEDs use? It's gallium nitride.
microcolonel 7y ago
> Gallium nitride seems like it might be more toxic... Surely not more toxic than gallium arsenide. The amounts of material involved in a manufactured product are pretty tiny, so the semiconductor material is not hugely concerning.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  Thanks for the correction.
kens 7y ago
There's no need to ponder the toxicity of gallium nitride and worry about your "sneaking suspicion" that it's toxic. It's in the "may cause skin irritation" level of toxicity, so really not worth worrying about. https://www.ltschem.com/msds/GaN.pdf https://www.ltschem.com/msds/GaN.pdf

nwienert 7y ago

And then there’s this thing which is smaller than either and 60W https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBYVF4Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Fud5Db6TJ9ZD9 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBYVF4Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Fu...

CoolGuySteve 7y ago
I just bought one of these a few days ago. It's small and light, definitely an improvement over most power bricks but it's only a little smaller than my wife's MacBook Air charger
cjcampbell 7y ago
I recommend the RavPower 61W GaN over Innergie. The Innergie is smaller, but it is 3x the cost and, in my experience, less reliable and less ergonomic. I purchased the Innergie after a previous travel charger failed. Loved it at first, but started experiencing issues pretty quickly. The first issue I encountered was that the plug would fold in frequently while I was trying to plug into outlet. Over the course of a couple months, I started seeing more issues with the reliability of the charger as well. It never completely failed, but I would often have to play around with reversing the cable and the direction of the outlet side usb-c in order to get charging to start. This was a bit concerning to me given that complaint USB-C cables are completely bi-directional.
- codetrotter 7y ago
  Anyone have a good recommendation for a wall charger similar to RavPower mentioned in parent comment but with EU plug? Additionally, is there a good charger with EU plug that I can use to charge both my MacBook Air 2018 (USB-C) and my iPhone X with at the same time?
  - StringyBob 7y ago
    Not the answer you were looking for, but I couldn’t find one so got the ravpower 61W and an extra small international adapter.
  - 7y ago

standardUser 7y ago

I'm still shocked at how poorly most plugs are designed for fitting in various outlets and power strips.

moonbug 7y ago
that's mostly because American domestic outlets are the worst in the world.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Do you have an example you'd hold up as the ideal or best case outlet?
  - ST2084 7y ago
    UK
    - jjeaff 7y ago
      Some cool features that I have seen. But aren't they huge? Also, more expensive to manufacture?
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
    - Nextgrid 7y ago
      UK is probably the safest but it’s also bulky and presents an unlikely kind of danger: it tends to lay with the pins upward when on the floor which is deadly when stepping on them in the dark. European plugs IMO have the right balance between safety and size, with the bonus that they don’t stab your feet if you step on them.
      - JadeNB 7y ago
        > UK is probably the safest but it’s also bulky and presents an unlikely kind of danger: it tends to lay with the pins upward when on the floor which is deadly when stepping on them in the dark. A feature mentioned even in an article praising them as the best in the world (https://www.fastcompany.com/3032807/why-england-has-the-best-wall-sockets-on-earth https://www.fastcompany.com/3032807/why-england-has-the-best...), linked elsewhere by dpeck (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21678124 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21678124): > It’s a truly brilliant design. The only caveat is that, as with Lego, the rugged, bottom-heavy design of a U.K. plug makes it an almost scientifically perfect caltrop.

Tade0 7y ago

How do does gallium nitride stack up against silicon carbide? I heard the latter is responsible for the recent increase in efficiency of EVs.

madengr 7y ago
Faster switching speed for the equivalent breakdown, at least from an RF amplifier perspective. SiC was an interim until GaN was developed, and is essentially obsoleted now. What’s interesting is how the DOD heavily invested in GaN technology in 90s and 00s, pushing the USA ahead of Japan in compound semiconductor. Weather that lead will stay; who knows. The Chinese have a GaN fab now. GaN is critical for RADAR and higher power SATCOM, so big defense support that has dual use for civilian wireless comms.
- baybal2 7y ago
  > Faster switching speed for the equivalent breakdown, at least from an RF amplifier perspective. SiC was an interim until GaN was developed, and is essentially obsoleted now. Wait wait wait... GaN and SiC have very, very different use profiles, and characteristics. SiC is by no means obsolete, and nor are purpose made silicon switches. SiC is here to stay because of one very unique trait among all other semiconductors - a very pronounced negative temperature coefficient, and without extreme non-linearity. Second to that is more or less linear threshold voltage temperature coefficient. GaN has positive threshold voltage temperature coefficient. Third, SiC can simply operate at higher temperatures, and have known longer lifespan. GaN's current limits are WAY lower. Fourth, transfer characteristic... Si, GaN, and SiC are all very different. This is one of few measures on which plain silicon beats contenders.
  - madengr 7y ago
    I was thinking in terms of RF amps. Cree was making SiC FETs several years ago, but I think it’s all GaN on SiC now. There was a SiC fab in CA making RF parts, but I think they went belly-up. All the SiC FETs topped out a 2.5 GHz. How does the negative temp coefficient help; stability for very high temps? I know the positive temp coefficient was an issue in RF BJT, requiring ballast resistors for stabilization, but those are not needed in any FETs. The positive temp coefficient should be useful for GaN as long as you have temp stabilization in the bias network; all of my amps did. Good point about the high temp. I know of some oil drill electronics in SiC. I just though SiC was dead for RF.

paul7986 7y ago

Are there any wireless charging pads or surfaces that I can buy/use with a phone case that has a thick backing?

Scoundreller 7y ago
A dirt cheap one still works with an otter box for me.

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago

WOW... This is a horribly misleading article and discussion. The silicon of the switching circuit PALES in comparison to the real magic here. The wattage capability and size of these chargers is only possible because of US “power delivery”. These chargers are NOT hitting 30+ watts at 5V traditional USB voltage. Yes, there is another power and ground wire pair in the cable, but iirc they got smaller in diameter. These devices are small and cool there because your device can charge at up to 20V now. GAN didn’t outright make that happen on the source or sink side. It didn’t hurt, it’s cool, but the difference is smaller than they are implying by comparing a 5V device to a 20V device. An article that goes on about fast charging and never says “20V” once is not telling you the full story.

goosehonk 7y ago
I believe the point was that GaN semiconductors make these chargers more compact, cooler, and lighter than their silicon competitors.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  But that isn’t really the case. These chargers wouldn’t be pushing 30+W to device at this size if they weren’t also at 20V. One way before the other! Lock it down to 5V and the size goes way up. The comparison to Apple’s 5V and 5W from like 2008 is at best misleading. Are these smaller because of better silicon, yes, are they marginally smaller and the real difference is USB pd, also yes.
  - Terretta 7y ago
    No, the real difference isn’t PD2. They have models with identical specs where size difference is not the PD but material.
Terretta 7y ago
You can falsify your own argument by checking out the range of PD2 chargers from Anker or RavPower, observing the models with similar wattage and same multi voltages including up to 20V, and then noting the size differences. They’re not making the new models bigger just for fun.

ksec 7y ago

I asked a year ago When could we expect GaN to be more widely available and it seems the answer is still true as of today. GaN mosfet costs 10x more [1] than a silicon one of similar power rating. And the multiples gets wider at 15x for 1K units. I doubt we will see Apple include a GaN charger as default for quite some time. [1]: IPAW60R380CEXKSA1 (silicon) costs $1.26, IGT60R190D1SATMA1 (GaN) costs $13.

huslage 7y ago
I just got a new 16" MacBook Pro and the power brick is 96W, but the same size as the 60W from a few years ago. I'd say this is likely a GaN unit, but I don't have any proof of that.
- dmd 7y ago
  Lots of people have opened them up already; it's not GaN.
- ksec 7y ago
  Well no, it is not, [1] is the world smallest 100W Charger with GaN and 4 Ports. And it is even smaller than the 61W MBP Charger with 1 Port. And the link to my previous question's answer [2] from an electrical engineer. I will paste it here as well. Cost, and the fact that it doesn't actually buy you much. I've evaluated GaN for a couple recent designs I've been involved in and found that its benefits simply didn't justify its costs. What GaN actually does is, mainly, decrease switching losses. That means switching frequency can go up, or efficiency, or power density. These are all good things, to be sure, but the magnitude of improvement GaN brings to most designs is simply not large enough to justify the cost of the parts and the increased design attention needed to use them. (They're fussy little things.) That said, I'm bullish on GaN in the medium-term. There are some cool tricks that are infeasible or impossible without them, and they really are better in a lot of ways. It'll just take a while for them to trickle downmarket, and even still they're not going to be replacing Si FETs anytime soon. (Part of the lag in GaN adoption is simply that Si FETs have gotten really, really good.) Yes, size is the main product-level advantage of GaN. But it only lets some of the system shrink; for something like a mains charger, you still need the isolation magnetics, so your overall size is still constrained. And at the power levels of a few watts that many chargers work with, Si FETs are simply good enough. A 5W USB charger isn't going to get any smaller with GaN. It only starts to get interesting with really high power densities. [1] https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2019/11/HyperJuice-100W-GaN-Charger-2.png https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2019/11/Hyper... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18853313 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18853313

moreati 7y ago

For Brits and visitors to our shores there's https://www.themu.co.uk/collections/muone https://www.themu.co.uk/collections/muone and https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/muone/mu-two-next-generation-63w-dual-usb-type-c-wall-charger https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/muone/mu-two-next-gener...

Angostura 7y ago
The Anker box mentioned is £20 on Amazon.co.uk
- moreati 7y ago
  I mentioned the Mu because it has a folding UK plug. Small chargers lose much of their smallness when using a standard UK plug.
  - dspillett 7y ago
    I've had an older Mu for some time for travelling. There are much cheaper copies, and alternative designs, these days* but I can't vouch for their quality as I've never used them. The Mu seems well-built and after many uses still feels solid. [*] https://idaffodil.co.uk/products/slim-foldable-usb-charger-august-umc301-1-port-for-iphone-ipad-and-android?variant=22651793997888&currency=GBP https://idaffodil.co.uk/products/slim-foldable-usb-charger-a... to pick one at random from a quick search, or https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07VDJLD1Q/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07VDJLD1Q/ for C-type though that is only 15W not 45W like the Mu C-type models.

floatboth 7y ago

Any of these fancy GaN chargers have USB-IF certification?

eloisius 7y ago

This article reminded me of the mysterious murder of Shane Todd from a few years ago https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Shane_Todd https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Shane_Todd

dzhiurgis 7y ago

> It’s not perfect yet: Anker’s 30W Atom PD 1 struggles to power something as large as a 13-inch MacBook Pro Umm wot, maybe older MacBooks, maybe when gaming or rendering. For writing code and browsing on a 15incher I'm averaging 20watts. Cheap 12v cigarette lighter one that does 24w is enough (but barely) to keep things running for me. If I turn off most of apps I get as low 6watts on a hexacore device. I use iStat menus to monitor my power use which is quite exciting.

javagram 7y ago
Apple’s recommended charger for a 13inch MBP is a 61W adapter, for the 15 inch is an 87W and for the 16 inch is a 96W. Although you can use an under-specced adapter it probably won’t be enough to power and charge the system while fully using the CPU, GPU, and screen.
- dzhiurgis 7y ago
  Basically you just repeated what I just said... I am actually considering buying 30W one for it's portability. But then again I am not a YouTube influencer that occasionally games and cuts videos (you know, the person that Apple designs it's computers nowadays for).
  - Tagbert 7y ago
    This RAV power 61w charger is smaller than the one in the referenced article. I have one and travel with it a lot. https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc112-gan-tech-61w-wall-charger https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc112-gan-tech-61w-wall...
  - kalleboo 7y ago
    > the person that Apple designs it's computers nowadays for I develop software in Apple's programming language using Apple's frameworks and Apple's own IDE, and power usage is through the roof. 50W while typing (and auto-complete is doing it's job) and 80W while building. I think it's odd and quite rude that you dismiss anyone who has higher computing than just typing some basic text and browsing the web to be "a YouTube influencer". If all you need is the computing power of an Eee PC then yeah, I don't think you are Apple's target market.

agurk 7y ago

When I got a new laptop this summer I researched what chargers were out there, as I was fed up with carrying the normal assortment of cables and chargers. I settled for another GaN charger - the Innergie Powergear 60c[0] which is a very decent size for 60w and not having a mains lead built into it (still very common on non-mac chargers) makes it a lot more compact. I travel a lot, often with more than one laptop, so now I'm very happy I can charge all my electronics with this one charger and also with the changeable country tips it's more compact than a travel adaptor. The only downside I've had with it is the US power tip got bent the first time I used it - I contacted Innergie to see if I could get a replacement, but they never got back to me. [0] http://www.myinnergie.com/sg/product/136 http://www.myinnergie.com/sg/product/136

p1mrx 7y ago
Their photos all seem to be hiding the connector between the unit and the power tip. Is that standard or proprietary?
- agurk 7y ago
  I assume it's proprietary (are there even standards for this kind of connector?). The charger body has two fixed pins inside a circular collar with two tabs on it that the tip is placed over then rotated 45 degrees to lock.
  - p1mrx 7y ago
    It's pretty common to use IEC C7/C8 for the PSU<->AC connection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320#C7/C8_coupler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320#C7/C8_coupler
lazyjeff 7y ago
I've got the same one, very pricey, but amazing to travel with compared to the giant macbook charger. It's only 60W but charges almost as fast as the 87W one for 15" macbooks. It's also really nice to be able to charge all my travel gadgets with one small charger, reducing the number of cables and chargers I have to carry. I'm hoping that giant power bricks and those adapters that power via barrel plugs will disappear soon, as I find them to be unwieldy and dirt magnets. Computer monitors are most guilty of having some of the biggest power bricks, and I'd love to see them replaced with regular power cables (the ones that plug into desktop computers), or the monitor be powered over usb-c so any regular 100W usb-c adapter can power them.

jedberg 7y ago

Way back in the 90s aerospace was replacing silicon with gallium arsenide to make more efficient and faster chips. I’m glad to see it’s finally reaching a useful commercial application.

kbaker 7y ago
Note that this is Gallium Nitride (GaN,) not Gallium Arsenide (GaAs).
- jedberg 7y ago
  Right but I believe it is a similar process built in the same R&D.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
mixmastamyk 7y ago
Had forgotten about that. I worked at the Rockwell science center at that time and went into their clean room once and had to put on a “bunny suit” to work on some computers inside it. They had a gallium chip product of some sort.
- jedberg 7y ago
  My dad worked there too. :)
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Interesting, curious as to who.

BurningFrog 7y ago

Uninformed basic question: Would these charge my phone faster than the standard ones?

thebean11 7y ago
If your device accepts wattage (current? not totally sure about the terminology) higher than your current charger can provide, then yes. Basically, devices will charge at minimum(phone_rate, charger_rate).
- Symbiote 7y ago
  > wattage (current? not totally sure about the terminology) Power is measured in watts. Current is measured in amps. Potential difference / voltage is measured in volts.
mastax 7y ago
Unfortunately, it depends. There are various standards that devices use to negotiate how much power to send over the USB cable. These chargers tend to support all the popular standards so they'll charge your phone at the fastest possible speed (unless you have a OnePlus or OPPO phone). If you have a midrange or higher Android phone, the included charger likely charges at max speed. If you have an iPhone with the 5W adapter, any of these adapters will charge faster than that.
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  Thanks! My Pixel 4 charges at 18W, and I'm probably good as is.

jdkee 7y ago

Are these chargers UL certified? I would be wary of using higher wattage chargers that have no been properly tested.

corey_moncure 7y ago
Safety, testing, and labor protections are so last millenium. Profit seeking at the cost of the natural environment and human lives is now back in fashion. Nobody cares if the $10 trinket they brought from A----- blows up and burns their house down with their children inside. Today's hyper-informed and connected consumer can't be bothered with such considerations! That's why you can't find Made in USA or Made in Japan anywhere you look anymore. The USA is just Finished. We just can't compete anymore. Look at our broken economy! Japan needs immigrants to survive. C----'s star is rising, man, get with the times already.

IndrekR 7y ago

I think GaN transistors are a major thing in the next decade. Designed a GaN FET based small vehicle motor controller few years ago and similar size/speed/efficiency is currently not achievable with any other mass produced transistor type. There used to be only small players on the field (GaN Systems and EPC) but now Panasonic and Infineon have started offering their versions. Expecting the prices to go down and volumes go up.

martingordon 7y ago

I'm still waiting for a USB-C charger with more than two ports. Until then, I'm sticking with USB-A cables for everything except my MacBook Pro. For travel (where outlets are often at a premium), I use a four port USB-A charger on a nightstand to charge 2 iPhones and an Apple Watch (this one: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-Foldable-PowerPort-Samsung/dp/B00VH8G1SY https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Charger-Foldable-PowerPort-Sams...).

sm4rk0 7y ago
Something like this? https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000237954145.html https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000237954145.html

baybal2 7y ago

A man in OEM manufacturing here. Not an electronics engineer professionally, but more or less involuntary having to deal with it. First, I will say that GaN is not a make or break deal yet now. There are very high performance silicon switches that can produce equal gains for use cases in consumer electronic. In absolute comparison GaN is of course winning over Si, but use case wise, not so much. GaN's main appeal is that you can retrofit it into simplest buck topologies, and get instant gains without any extra hassle. GaN works best for low current, low voltage applications you normally see in consumer electronics. Everywhere else besides RF, it's not a clear improvement over silicon. For long time GaN existed in a narrow niche of high frequency circuits, where people were OK with n channel depletion mode device with a lot of tricky sides. Its use as a power switch is relatively novel. Enhancement mode devices are now on the market, but there is a catch. Because p-GaN is nowhere near as good as n-GaN, pure GaN enhancement mode devices are nowhere near as good as depletion mode devices. For this reason, some companies are trying a an approach with hybridised GaN-Si device to overcome that. Again, that is way more tricky and expensive than a single material device. Now, back to chargers. It is easily possible to make more compact chargers without any exotic switches GaNfets included for as long as you put just a little bit more brains to engineering by going to better topologies. What a lot of charger makers do these days to go along with the trend for smaller chargers is to turn up their switching frequencies as much as possible without melting the charger. They still do miscalculations about that, and you now have a lot of molten/burnt chargers as a result. They are being misguided by the switching speed narrative, and completely miss that point that size of passive components has to do with way more things than just switching speed. First, they can throw away the standalone rectification, gaining some efficiency in the process. Second, they should either go with some advanced flat transformer setup with appropriate resonant topology. Or they can throw away transformer altogether and use piezo transformer, or capacitive isolation. Third, a separate buck for last stage DC-DC can also be thrown away if you use multitap transformer and some electronic switching. Transformers are by far biggest contributors to charger volume, and weight, and are bigger than capacitors in some cases. Throwing them away will provide way more space savings, along with other extraneous components. So think twice about going the GaN route before considering things above first. Switching performance in a typical AC-DC is by far not the biggest of your problems.

mrfusion 7y ago

Does this breakthrough apply to other things like inverters?

WillPostForFood 7y ago

100w GaN coming from Sanho. They've done good products in the past, so very optimistic about this. Two USB A and two USB C ports. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-worlds-first-and-smallest-100w-gan-charger https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-wo...

Ottolay 7y ago

Good discussion of SiC vs GaN for EV applications: https://chargedevs.com/features/opinion-sic-vs-gan-semiconductors-for-ev-power-converters/ https://chargedevs.com/features/opinion-sic-vs-gan-semicondu...

Animats 7y ago

Not seeing UL or CSA approval numbers on those. That's important for switching power supplies, especially small ones. A switching power supply is always a few milliseconds from being a short circuit across the input. And FETs fail in the ON state. That's why those things are inherently fire risks and need protection circuitry. Really tiny ones make it worse; if they fail, there's not much space to dissipate heat before something blows and opens the circuit.

scottlamb 7y ago
Ugh. I ordered the four-port one they mentioned without considering it might not have UL approval. I'll be looking for the symbol when it comes now. Thanks for bringing it up. If the thing works as advertised and is safe, it's amazingly useful. It should quickly charge absolutely every device I have except my work 2015 MacBook Pro (that I'll likely replace soon), and up to for of them at once. (Eg laptop, phone, battery pack, and wireless headphones simultaneously.) Handle US or EU input. And be very compact.
bassman9000 7y ago
Aren't they also noisy AF? Wouldn't that affect power meters, or other measuring devices?
mherdeg 7y ago
Gosh that's odd; Ravpower has a blog post about UL certification's importance ( https://blog.ravpower.com/2018/04/usb-charger-safety-certifications-recalls/ https://blog.ravpower.com/2018/04/usb-charger-safety-certifi... ) but you're right, their RP-PC104 45W GaN USB-C wall charger and its manual don't list UL certification information ( https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0257/5656/5579/files/RP-PC104_User_Manual.pdf?23087 https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0257/5656/5579/files/RP-PC... , https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc104-45w-pd-wall-charger https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc104-45w-pd-wall-charg... ).
- tpowell 7y ago
  I’ve had the slim 45W RavPower one since June and it’s great. It’s almost startling how small it is. I much prefer it in the bag for coffee shop trips, etc. I use it with my 15” MBP and I haven’t seen any power issues with plenty of Chrome tabs and InDesign/Photoshop running. I usually have the extension cord on the 87W one at home—it’s so nice not to have to lug that whole assembly or look for the smaller attachment.

Tagbert 7y ago

I wonder why they didn’t include the RAVPower 61w GaN charger. It is smaller than the “Slim” model and has folding prongs. https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc112-gan-tech-61w-wall-charger https://www.ravpower.com/products/rp-pc112-gan-tech-61w-wall...

dclaw 7y ago

I love how no one is talking about how this article is from January of this year... Anker has a newer version that is even smaller now. It may only be 18W and rated for phones, but it matches the size of the original 5W Apple charger. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07WRKXQ8W https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07WRKXQ8W

jbverschoor 7y ago

N mention of the innergie 60c Which is 60w, changeable us/EU/uk

Camillo 7y ago

Ok, but they're USB-C, meaning there is an 80% chance they implement the spec incorrectly (resulting in weird issues with random devices), and a 10% chance that they are straight up unsafe. Benson is no longer updating his list AFAIK, but that's not because people have learned to do USB-C correctly; they haven't, e.g. [0] [0]: https://medium.com/@leung.benson/how-to-design-a-proper-usb-c-power-sink-hint-not-the-way-raspberry-pi-4-did-it-f470d7a5910 https://medium.com/@leung.benson/how-to-design-a-proper-usb-...

lhl 7y ago

One of my minor goals for 2020 is to switch all the gear I carry around to being USB-C PD. I've been doing some research on the subject, so just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in (some of this stuff mentioned in other comments). There's a pretty good site, https://www.chargerlab.com/ https://www.chargerlab.com/ (see also: https://twitter.com/chargerlab https://twitter.com/chargerlab ) that's dedicated to reviewing charging peripherals. I started off the year with an Innergie 60C, which has worked great for everything I've thrown at it and is tiny (55mL volume, 88g, 60W USB-C PD). It was on-sale recently, but even at full price has been worth it for me. (Although the newer RavPower PD Pioneer 61W is a good alternative that's almost as small and 1/3 the price.) I'm looking forward to adding the upcoming Sanho HyperJuice 100W charger (about twice the size, but a bunch more ports) https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-worlds-first-and-smallest-100w-gan-charger https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hypershop/hyperjuice-wo... Instead of the Anker PD1 18W, for a small charger, I use the Anker PIQ 30W - it's very slim, which actually makes it much easier to carry around. Also, the IMO folding plugs (and extra juice) are definitely worth the extra volume. Recently, for my Mavic Pro 2, I just got a cheap Cablcc USB-C to Plug Receptacle Charger cable and a RCGEEK car charger that seems to work well as a nice 2-in-1 (it only saves a tiny bit of volume and weight over the wall charging but it also provides car charging). Also, although I'm unsure of how often I'll need it, I got a 100Wh Zendure Super Tank power bank (which provides USB-C PD 100W charging), since it was discounted heavily for Black Friday (it was only $100 on sale vs $200+ for other similar options). Also, I travel internationally a lot, and the MOGICS Donut has been my go-to combination power strip and adapter - it's the best/most compact device I've found (and has 2 USB-A chargers built in to handly legacy devices). https://www.mogics.com/3824-2 https://www.mogics.com/3824-2

dspillett 7y ago
I'm similarly moving to USB-C-PD where I can when things need replacing or otherwise updating. One thing to watch for with decices that use the same port for in and out though: 1. Portable charger runs out of juice before completely charging running laptop. 2. Shortly thereafter laptop notices an empty battery connected. 3. Laptop dutifully starts sending power the other way to recharge the battery...
notacoward 7y ago

paggle 7y ago

If I built a new house today I’d wire 12 volts DC in addition to 110VAC. Safe for kids and fewer unsightly wall warts.

m0xte 7y ago
Also impractical due to I^2R losses.
- paggle 7y ago
  Not if you has an in-wall supply in each room.
  - m0xte 7y ago
    I’ll stick with the AC thanks. Having a house full of switchers is going to be hell.
    - paggle 7y ago
      I already have a house full of switchers, with all the wall warts! I've got at least 15 that are always plugged in.
Gibbon1 7y ago
Was recently thinking that single pair power over Ethernet could probably handle 90% of the use case for residential power. 50W is enough for a LED/Fluorescent lighting, power a laptop, lighting, charge your phone.

sgt101 7y ago

My levono comes with a 65w charger that's not much bigger than the 45 w charger shown here... What's the big deal?

caseyf7 7y ago

This is an area we needed Jony Ive to dedicate some time to improving. An Apple Pro charger for road warriors designed by Jony would be an awesome parting gift to the world.

throwaway9d0291 7y ago

Since people are throwing out chargers they like, here's my current favourite: https://satechi.net/products/75w-dual-type-c-pd-travel-charger https://satechi.net/products/75w-dual-type-c-pd-travel-charg... It's fantastic for travel. It can charge my laptop (USB-C), Apple Watch + iPhone (USB-A) and power bank (USB-C) all at the same time. It also has a detachable AC cable so you can swap it before you leave instead of carrying an international plug adapter.

Ottolay 7y ago

There are PC power supplies with Ga-N transistors these days, but seems they are so far used only for the very top end. https://www.anandtech.com/show/12645/the-corsair-ax1600i-psu-review-unparalleled-performance https://www.anandtech.com/show/12645/the-corsair-ax1600i-psu...

Havoc 7y ago

Is this a mains frequency thing? I saw the GaN stuff on US Amazon but cost and specs seemed worse than the uk ones. eg the uk Anker 60W ones cost less look about the same size can do 30W PD and has another 5 ports too I just don’t see the value proposition of these GaN ones