6 ms·

Exactly the way I feel about American influence in Europe. It's not too bad, you'll get used to it.

by pcroh 7y ago

whatshisface 7y ago
What are the issues that America is trying to push in Europe?
- mgbmtl 7y ago
  As a Canadian, random examples: Indifference to violence, hypocrisy on nudity, monetizing privacy (no respect for privacy), monetizing medical care. (I don't mean to start a flame war, but they are topics where EU and Canada tend to disagree with major US trends)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    Major US trends, but are people shilling on Reddit to support them? That's an honest question, I don't really read Reddit. I know there are a lot of people in the US who honestly believe in, say, private healthcare, so a lot of the comments in support of it could be explained as coming from Americans expressing their opinions, as opposed to government or corporate agents pushing an agenda.
    - mgbmtl 7y ago
      I guess there can be a lot of influence in a discussion based on how comments are upvoted, how algorithms will favour one type of content over another? (especially when advertising is guiding it all, and lobbies are big advertisers) I enjoyed this article: https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a9335/upvotes-downvotes-and-the-science-of-the-reddit-hivemind-15784871/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a9335/upvote... I also rarely visit Reddit, but for Facebook and Twitter, I guess there has been plenty of research on how people can manipulate public opinion by sharing/voting, and also the impact of their respective algorithms for promoting content? Of course, Tik Tok is no different, and we should be worried. They do the same thing, only it's not 'our' lobbies and we have little control on them.
  - hervature 7y ago
    As a fellow Canadian can you expand on this? Canada has been involved in every war that the US has been in my lifetime (born in 1993). Don't know what you mean on hypocrisy on nudity, but I only became comfortable with it when I visited Scandinavia when I was 22; seems like Canada has a similar issue. I'll maybe give you medical care, but this is an incredibly complex topic. To think that public health care isn't monetized is a naïve point of view. Somehow, the only thing that the Canadian government has done differently than the US is that it has convinced its people that it is not the US. That's my honest opinion.
    - ishjoh 7y ago
      > Canada has been involved in every war that the US has been in my lifetime Since the US is Canada's largest trading partner, this will always be the case, but there are huge and important differences in the level of involvement. Famously the level of involvement in the Iraq war was almost non-existent. Canada's involvement consisted of patrolling surrounding waters, and approximately 100 Canadian soldiers who were embedded in American forces as a sort of culteral military exchange[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War
      - hervature 7y ago
        Link from my sibling comment: https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/02/war-crimes-in-the-dark-canadas-special-forces/ https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/02/war-crimes-in-the-da...
    - mgbmtl 7y ago
      Violence: We have very different gun control laws, and general perception towards guns and violence. In my kid's primary school, they weren't even allowed to pretend-shoot at each other. Whereas I have to remind my US friends to leave their gun at home if driving to Canada (and yes, one of them had their gun confiscated at the border). Medical care monetisation: sure there is a big private industry, but it's scales different than in the US. And it did not say that it does not exist, only that we tend to disagree on the trend (ex: pharma insurance, now deployed in some provinces, and likely to become federal). Nudity: granted, I'm from Quebec, it might be different, but things like nipples, breastfeeding, nudity in art, being naked in locker rooms, seeing friends naked (non-sexually), etc. people tend to be much more indifferent about nudity and more comfortable with their body. Obviously, that's a huge generalization and perhaps anecdotal, but I heard this often. Ah, and I guess with regards to violence, is our difference in free speech: hate speech is not permitted (with exclusions for religious groups, because of LGBT issues, iirc). Again, these are what I think are non-aligned trends, and topics that have an impact on moderation/algorithms online, not a hard truth. Obviously not everyone agrees on these topics, some regions are more divided than others, and these views tend to evolve in time.
  - katbyte 7y ago
    While i agree with you on the first two as US movies and culture to propagate those values, third you could argue that europe and canada are pushing more privacy onto america due to GDPR and PIPEDA and companies having to follow them, but the last one i entirely have to disagree with you on the last one. I don't see the US trying to export or push that idea/policy and i can't see it ever gaining traction in canada or the EU.
  - theredbox 7y ago
    As an eastern european i feel the same just from the opposite perspective. Western European push for values that fundamentally cannot work in my country.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. This is insanely off topic and can't end well. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - mgbmtl 7y ago
      sorry :)
- the-dude 7y ago
  The occasional war comes to mind.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
9dl 7y ago
I don't think someone should even consider to get used to commie influence Or in 5-10 years that someone will be in situation worse than HK now
oarabbus_ 7y ago
You mean to, in supposed good faith, suggest that USA influence in Europe is similar and/or equivalent to Chinese influence and interference in the USA?
- pcroh 7y ago
  Yes. Are you familiar with the NATO?
  - oarabbus_ 7y ago
    Quite. I think I'll stop responding to this thread because we're not going to see eye-to-eye here. Despite the current US President's love for despots and totalitarianism, that doesn't describe the USA.
  - 9dl 7y ago
    Did you mean that old organisation which defend world from soviet invasion?
    - aabbccdd_a 7y ago
      hi
      - aabbccdd_a 7y ago
        hii
        aabbccdd_a 7y ago
        hiii
        aabbccdd_a 7y ago
        hiiii
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dang 7y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. The results below are hand-wringingly wretched. I know you're sincere but sincerely burning this place down is still destructive. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Exactly the way I feel about American influence in Europe. It's not too bad, you'll get used to it.

by pcroh 7y ago

Exactly the way I feel about American influence in Europe. It's not too bad, you'll get used to it.

whatshisface 7y ago

What are the issues that America is trying to push in Europe?

mgbmtl 7y ago
As a Canadian, random examples: Indifference to violence, hypocrisy on nudity, monetizing privacy (no respect for privacy), monetizing medical care. (I don't mean to start a flame war, but they are topics where EU and Canada tend to disagree with major US trends)
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- whatshisface 7y ago
  Major US trends, but are people shilling on Reddit to support them? That's an honest question, I don't really read Reddit. I know there are a lot of people in the US who honestly believe in, say, private healthcare, so a lot of the comments in support of it could be explained as coming from Americans expressing their opinions, as opposed to government or corporate agents pushing an agenda.
  - mgbmtl 7y ago
    I guess there can be a lot of influence in a discussion based on how comments are upvoted, how algorithms will favour one type of content over another? (especially when advertising is guiding it all, and lobbies are big advertisers) I enjoyed this article: https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a9335/upvotes-downvotes-and-the-science-of-the-reddit-hivemind-15784871/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/health/a9335/upvote... I also rarely visit Reddit, but for Facebook and Twitter, I guess there has been plenty of research on how people can manipulate public opinion by sharing/voting, and also the impact of their respective algorithms for promoting content? Of course, Tik Tok is no different, and we should be worried. They do the same thing, only it's not 'our' lobbies and we have little control on them.
- hervature 7y ago
  As a fellow Canadian can you expand on this? Canada has been involved in every war that the US has been in my lifetime (born in 1993). Don't know what you mean on hypocrisy on nudity, but I only became comfortable with it when I visited Scandinavia when I was 22; seems like Canada has a similar issue. I'll maybe give you medical care, but this is an incredibly complex topic. To think that public health care isn't monetized is a naïve point of view. Somehow, the only thing that the Canadian government has done differently than the US is that it has convinced its people that it is not the US. That's my honest opinion.
  - ishjoh 7y ago
    > Canada has been involved in every war that the US has been in my lifetime Since the US is Canada's largest trading partner, this will always be the case, but there are huge and important differences in the level of involvement. Famously the level of involvement in the Iraq war was almost non-existent. Canada's involvement consisted of patrolling surrounding waters, and approximately 100 Canadian soldiers who were embedded in American forces as a sort of culteral military exchange[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_the_Iraq_War
    - hervature 7y ago
      Link from my sibling comment: https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/02/war-crimes-in-the-dark-canadas-special-forces/ https://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/02/war-crimes-in-the-da...
  - mgbmtl 7y ago
    Violence: We have very different gun control laws, and general perception towards guns and violence. In my kid's primary school, they weren't even allowed to pretend-shoot at each other. Whereas I have to remind my US friends to leave their gun at home if driving to Canada (and yes, one of them had their gun confiscated at the border). Medical care monetisation: sure there is a big private industry, but it's scales different than in the US. And it did not say that it does not exist, only that we tend to disagree on the trend (ex: pharma insurance, now deployed in some provinces, and likely to become federal). Nudity: granted, I'm from Quebec, it might be different, but things like nipples, breastfeeding, nudity in art, being naked in locker rooms, seeing friends naked (non-sexually), etc. people tend to be much more indifferent about nudity and more comfortable with their body. Obviously, that's a huge generalization and perhaps anecdotal, but I heard this often. Ah, and I guess with regards to violence, is our difference in free speech: hate speech is not permitted (with exclusions for religious groups, because of LGBT issues, iirc). Again, these are what I think are non-aligned trends, and topics that have an impact on moderation/algorithms online, not a hard truth. Obviously not everyone agrees on these topics, some regions are more divided than others, and these views tend to evolve in time.
- katbyte 7y ago
  While i agree with you on the first two as US movies and culture to propagate those values, third you could argue that europe and canada are pushing more privacy onto america due to GDPR and PIPEDA and companies having to follow them, but the last one i entirely have to disagree with you on the last one. I don't see the US trying to export or push that idea/policy and i can't see it ever gaining traction in canada or the EU.
- theredbox 7y ago
  As an eastern european i feel the same just from the opposite perspective. Western European push for values that fundamentally cannot work in my country.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. This is insanely off topic and can't end well. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - mgbmtl 7y ago
    sorry :)
the-dude 7y ago
The occasional war comes to mind.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

9dl 7y ago

I don't think someone should even consider to get used to commie influence Or in 5-10 years that someone will be in situation worse than HK now

oarabbus_ 7y ago

You mean to, in supposed good faith, suggest that USA influence in Europe is similar and/or equivalent to Chinese influence and interference in the USA?

pcroh 7y ago
Yes. Are you familiar with the NATO?
- oarabbus_ 7y ago
  Quite. I think I'll stop responding to this thread because we're not going to see eye-to-eye here. Despite the current US President's love for despots and totalitarianism, that doesn't describe the USA.
- 9dl 7y ago
  Did you mean that old organisation which defend world from soviet invasion?
  - aabbccdd_a 7y ago
    hi
    - aabbccdd_a 7y ago
      hii
      - aabbccdd_a 7y ago
        hiii
        aabbccdd_a 7y ago
        hiiii

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

dang 7y ago

Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar. The results below are hand-wringingly wretched. I know you're sincere but sincerely burning this place down is still destructive. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html