5 ms·

The counter argument is: If a widowed elderly woman lives in a 900 sqft home bought in 1963, how is it her fault that the world went crazy and values it at $1,

The counter argument is: If a widowed elderly woman lives in a 900 sqft home bought in 1963, how is it her fault that the world went crazy and values it at $1,200,000+ today? Have you seen a 1963 house? They’re a fire hazard not worth 1.2M.. And yet, you want her owe tax on that crazy value, yet she is stuck with a static retirement income? Where should she go? Idaho? I’m for increasing tax on income earners, but not on retired elderly who just want to die in peace. The younger generation could move to other geographies much easier

yonran 7y ago
> The counter argument is: If a widowed elderly woman… Proposition 13 does not target widowed elderly women; it only benefits property owners regardless of whether they are widowed elderly women. For example, widowed elderly renters are harmed instead of helped. If we wanted an entitlement for low-income and elderly people, we should have made one that targeted these groups instead of the one that only incidentally helps low-income people (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/90-1912.ZD.html https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/90-1912.ZD.html)
robotresearcher 7y ago
The old lady made $1m in unearned value in her house. She can use a part of that value to pay taxes on the increase, live and die in the house, and her heirs still make free money.
- ericmay 7y ago
  It’s also unrealized. Maybe just tax on the sale or transfer. Honestly the whole situation is a nightmare. I feel like whenever I think of a “solution” I just find problems with it.
  - rcpt 7y ago
    > unrealized She can borrow against it and easily afford property taxes for the rest of her life.
    - masonic 7y ago
      Unless she resorts to a reverse mortgage, it's surprisingly difficult to refi when you have no earned income. I have over 1M equity in my house but can't access it while unemployed (according to lenders I've contacted, including credit unions with whom I have 30+-year ties.)
      - rcpt 7y ago
        Let's say property taxes are 2%. She's got a $1M house so thats $20k per year for the rest of her life. Is it really that hard to borrow $200k against a $1M house?
    - ericmay 7y ago
      And then die me not pay back loans? Or what if there is a market downturn and now the lenders are stuck holding it? Maybe they don’t lend I’m the first place? Lots of unknowns here.
      - rcpt 7y ago
        Yes: Buy. Borrow. Die. It's how the wealthy skip taxes in the US. Or, if she is seriously so destitute and financially illiterate that this is all too hard there are targeted programs in California for her: https://www.sco.ca.gov/ardtax_prop_tax_postponement.html https://www.sco.ca.gov/ardtax_prop_tax_postponement.html The fact is that Prop 13 is just a handout to successful land speculators at the expense of everyone else.
nerfhammer 7y ago
It sounds like keeping housing prices stable rather than expecting/encouraging housing prices to skyrocket indefinitely at everyone else's expense would solve both problems, no?

yonran 7y ago

> The counter argument is: If a widowed elderly woman… Proposition 13 does not target widowed elderly women; it only benefits property owners regardless of whether they are widowed elderly women. For example, widowed elderly renters are harmed instead of helped. If we wanted an entitlement for low-income and elderly people, we should have made one that targeted these groups instead of the one that only incidentally helps low-income people (https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/90-1912.ZD.html https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/90-1912.ZD.html)

robotresearcher 7y ago

The old lady made $1m in unearned value in her house. She can use a part of that value to pay taxes on the increase, live and die in the house, and her heirs still make free money.

ericmay 7y ago
It’s also unrealized. Maybe just tax on the sale or transfer. Honestly the whole situation is a nightmare. I feel like whenever I think of a “solution” I just find problems with it.
- rcpt 7y ago
  > unrealized She can borrow against it and easily afford property taxes for the rest of her life.
  - masonic 7y ago
    Unless she resorts to a reverse mortgage, it's surprisingly difficult to refi when you have no earned income. I have over 1M equity in my house but can't access it while unemployed (according to lenders I've contacted, including credit unions with whom I have 30+-year ties.)
    - rcpt 7y ago
      Let's say property taxes are 2%. She's got a $1M house so thats $20k per year for the rest of her life. Is it really that hard to borrow $200k against a $1M house?
  - ericmay 7y ago
    And then die me not pay back loans? Or what if there is a market downturn and now the lenders are stuck holding it? Maybe they don’t lend I’m the first place? Lots of unknowns here.
    - rcpt 7y ago
      Yes: Buy. Borrow. Die. It's how the wealthy skip taxes in the US. Or, if she is seriously so destitute and financially illiterate that this is all too hard there are targeted programs in California for her: https://www.sco.ca.gov/ardtax_prop_tax_postponement.html https://www.sco.ca.gov/ardtax_prop_tax_postponement.html The fact is that Prop 13 is just a handout to successful land speculators at the expense of everyone else.

nerfhammer 7y ago

It sounds like keeping housing prices stable rather than expecting/encouraging housing prices to skyrocket indefinitely at everyone else's expense would solve both problems, no?