5 ms·

One man? If you are just trying to sound dramatic, sure. However, I'd urge that you go and actually read more about how CCP works and the actual reaction of Chi

by kwizzt 7y ago

One man? If you are just trying to sound dramatic, sure. However, I'd urge that you go and actually read more about how CCP works and the actual reaction of Chinese people on Weibo and other Chinese social media. The reaction to NBA and Hong Kong is not merely the government's manipulation, tho I'm sure there are some being done. When people see the news and make a judgement, it's often times the judgement the media want you to make. I'll give you another video about Hong Kong protesters for a different perspective: https://youtu.be/ZPYuGYLesx0 https://youtu.be/ZPYuGYLesx0 This video by no means represents all of the protesters, but I hope people here can see the same event from different angles. Edit: fix typo

secraetomani 7y ago
Yes, one man will have the final word regarding a ban on Apple. I didn't say that Chinese people wouldn't approve of the ban. But it will be for one man to decide one way or the other.
- yourbandsucks 7y ago
  You might like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs
calcifer 7y ago
> the actual reaction of Chinese people on Weibo and other Chinese social media Why do you think those people react that way? Nobody is born with an opinion. What politics they were exposed to growing up? What did the schools teach them? What behaviour did the government punish, what did it allow? Which information sources where they given access to? Are the "actual Chinese people" who disagree with the party allowed to share their thoughts on Weibo without fear?
- president 7y ago
  And it's only going to get worse: > Director of the SOAS China Institute Professor Steve Tsang said: "One way to improve, or re-earn a positive social credit score could be to report your neighbours for speaking against President Xi Jinping. This could be seen as helping to defend the honour of the country, or the honour of the leader, by alerting the party to someone who is potentially going to destabilise the country." Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1153414/china-latest-news-social-credits-mass-surveillance-reporting-neighbours-xi-jinping-tsang https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1153414/china-latest-ne...
- kwizzt 7y ago
  Like you said, nobody is born with an opinion. Same questions you asked above can be asked of Americans. Democracy != Good and Communism != Bad Things aren't as black and white as people make it out to be. Now, I'll tell you I'm Chinese, but I've been in the US for almost ten years now. I've seen perspectives from both sides and the truth is far from what western media tells you. The unfortunate problem is the language barrier. Many people in English speaking countries cannot read Chinese, thus relying on "Chinese experts" for their opinions, without realizing many of the so-called experts themselves cannot speak Chinese. I tell you that I don't support the Hong Kong protest, this is not posted on Weibo or any Chinese social media. This is my own feeling and judgement. It's sad I even need to make this disclaimer. Now you have this one data point from me as a Chinese citizen, if that's worth anything.
  - kelnos 7y ago
    You're of course entitled to your opinion on the HK protests, but I don't think that's what people are looking for. You're just one random person on the internet. What I think we're interested in is figuring out what public sentiment actually is, and what's causing it. For example, is it that most Chinese people are genuinely, organically outraged? Or is it a small, vocal minority that is being amplified by state media? Or is it mainly groups like the 50 Cent Army manipulating public opinion? It's hard to say, and I don't think the Western media is equipped to answer that question. As an example, there are reports that Chinese media outlets are dishonestly painting the HK protestors as largely a violent group that (among other things) are separatists. If people in China hear that, and believe that, I'd say outrage is completely understandable... but it's based on a false premise. But I don't -- and can't -- know what's actually happening over there, so it's just one explanation among many possibilities. How do we, as foreigners, get to the heart of the matter? Is it even possible? To your note about the language barrier: I think about that a lot. I speak/understand a very tiny amount of Chinese, and can read basically none (something I'd like to improve at soon). I was watching a recording of a clip of a Chinese news broadcast, and of course there was a translator speaking over it in English. How do I know the English translation was actually what was said? Even if the translators were acting in good faith, how do I know that the translation accurately expresses the intent of the speaker? I don't, and recognize that there are limits to how much I can understand what's going on. I think, also, for context, a lot of non-Chinese people naturally distrust China's government. Personally, I have trouble believing anything at face value that comes out of an authoritarian government, or the media apparatus that it controls. The US has many, many faults, but at least I can believe with reasonable certainty that the media outlets are saying things (whether right or wrong) because they want to say them, not because the government is forcing them to say things.
fucking_tragedy 7y ago
> the actual reaction of Chinese people on Weibo and other Chinese social media People are censored and punished for disagreeing with their government and its dictator-for-life.
- kwizzt 7y ago
  Do you think I'm censored by posting in HN? Do you believe I'm a wumao? I'm here speaking out of my own free will. I'm in the US and I don't agree with a lot of what CCP has done, but in terms on NBA and Hong Kong issues, I can see the reason why Chinese people feel differently from Americans, and I sometimes feel the same.
  - goatsi 7y ago
    Do you believe HN and Weibo have the same level of censorship? You are talking about the reaction on Chinese social media platforms, which have a long and detailed history of censorship.
    - kwizzt 7y ago
      I agree with what you said. And the point of my previous post is trying to say that I'm not posting on Weibo and I'm not censored, yet I still have the similar sentiment that people who do post on Weibo have, tho not as extreme.
      - goatsi 7y ago
        You have a similar sentiment to what is permitted to be displayed on Weibo. As we have agreed, there is strong censorship on Weibo. Do you believe that pro Hong Kong protester posts would be permitted by that censorship? Clearly there is a strong anti Hong Kong protester reaction on Weibo. But with the heavy censorship we have no idea what percentage of the Chinese population might have a different view.
        inimino 7y ago
gnode 7y ago
> I'll give you another video about Hong Kong protesters for a different perspective The video shows one person being frustrated that a road is blocked by protesters: "if you kill people, set fires, I don't care. But you're blocking the road." I'm sure if you look at any protest throughout history, you could find an anecdote of someone being inconvenienced by it.
- kwizzt 7y ago
  But do you see how the protesters treated this old lady? Pointing lasers at her eyes. Giving her the Chinese flag to make her look pro China. You still only seem to see how frustrated this lady was being while ignoring the behaviors by the protestors in this case
  - kelnos 7y ago
    I think it's a pretty understandable reaction on the part of the protesters. "Hey, we're here fighting for our freedom -- and yours -- and you're pissed off that the road is blocked? Get bent, lady". Sure, perhaps they could be more patient with her (though I doubt I'd be in their situation) and shining the laser pointers in her face is not cool, but she's not exactly being friendly and nice to them, either. She also fundamentally does not get how protesting works. "Tell me, why do you people need to block the road?", she asks. Because if you sit in a corner and protest where no one can see you, and it doesn't affect anyone's day in the least, you're completely ineffective. It's not great that random people have a harder day because of that, but as a protester, you need to occupy space in a way that causes problems, or you aren't taken seriously. It's a shame that's how it has to be, but that's how it is. And beyond that, she's just lying and treating them poorly: accusing them of throwing things at her when they aren't, saying that they're armed when they aren't, claiming they want to beat her to death when they don't, and just overall acting completely irrationally. She even tells them that she doesn't care if they set fires and kill people, but just don't block the road. Even if she's being hyperbolic, that's a really shitty thing to say. Then she starts acting condescending, calling them kids who don't know what they're doing. Meanwhile, the "kids" just take it all, offering the truth in response, and she just ignores them and gets more agitated. Meanwhile, her only real complaint is that "the road is blocked". My sympathy for her is basically zero. I only watched the first few minutes of the video because of how utterly annoying and unreasonable I found her to be.
goatsi 7y ago
> the actual reaction of Chinese people on Weibo and other Chinese social media. That isn't the actual reaction of Chinese people, that's the reaction that the Chinese social media companies permit to be displayed. Do you think that a post supporting the Hong Kong protesters would be permitted by the censors?
- taobility 7y ago
  But the tweets and posts to support HK polices on Twitter/Facebook were deleted, how would you explain that?
  - goatsi 7y ago
    Do you mean the recent tweet supporting the HK protesters? We know why that was deleted, because the Chinese government threatened the NBA. The NBA quickly caved, but it seems to have been too late: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/08/china-state-tv-suspends-nba-broadcasts-after-morey-hong-kong-tweet.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/08/china-state-tv-suspends-nba-...
- moggie2 7y ago
  The opinions in HK (which is not being censored) is widely divided also. It is not about the WHAT that they're asking, it is about HOW. If they are protesting peacefully, nobody would object - even the police. But then again, youthful protester would then claim that the only way that the government only listens when they use violence. The truth is, their voices were heard, it was just couldn't be agreed upon on. The younger generation's perspective in HK is like this - If I don't get what I ask for, you are not listening. Since you are not listening, I would do whatever it takes to make you listen to me, including breaking the law (destroying properties, set up fire in subway, beat up, lock up, surround or threaten people with different opinions). The enforcement is there to oppress me because they attempt to stop me from letting my voice be heard through breaking the law. Since they oppress me, I need to fight them back by throwing bricks, metals, slingshot, petrol bomb to them. Since they oppress me, their family deserve to die and their children deserved to be bullied at school. THAT is how they think and what they are doing currently. Certainly not all of the protesters are like that, but none of the protesters are willing to tell them that these radical protesters doing / thinking is wrong.

by kwizzt 7y ago

secraetomani 7y ago

Yes, one man will have the final word regarding a ban on Apple. I didn't say that Chinese people wouldn't approve of the ban. But it will be for one man to decide one way or the other.

yourbandsucks 7y ago
You might like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

calcifer 7y ago

> the actual reaction of Chinese people on Weibo and other Chinese social media Why do you think those people react that way? Nobody is born with an opinion. What politics they were exposed to growing up? What did the schools teach them? What behaviour did the government punish, what did it allow? Which information sources where they given access to? Are the "actual Chinese people" who disagree with the party allowed to share their thoughts on Weibo without fear?

president 7y ago
And it's only going to get worse: > Director of the SOAS China Institute Professor Steve Tsang said: "One way to improve, or re-earn a positive social credit score could be to report your neighbours for speaking against President Xi Jinping. This could be seen as helping to defend the honour of the country, or the honour of the leader, by alerting the party to someone who is potentially going to destabilise the country." Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1153414/china-latest-news-social-credits-mass-surveillance-reporting-neighbours-xi-jinping-tsang https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1153414/china-latest-ne...
kwizzt 7y ago
Like you said, nobody is born with an opinion. Same questions you asked above can be asked of Americans. Democracy != Good and Communism != Bad Things aren't as black and white as people make it out to be. Now, I'll tell you I'm Chinese, but I've been in the US for almost ten years now. I've seen perspectives from both sides and the truth is far from what western media tells you. The unfortunate problem is the language barrier. Many people in English speaking countries cannot read Chinese, thus relying on "Chinese experts" for their opinions, without realizing many of the so-called experts themselves cannot speak Chinese. I tell you that I don't support the Hong Kong protest, this is not posted on Weibo or any Chinese social media. This is my own feeling and judgement. It's sad I even need to make this disclaimer. Now you have this one data point from me as a Chinese citizen, if that's worth anything.
- kelnos 7y ago
  You're of course entitled to your opinion on the HK protests, but I don't think that's what people are looking for. You're just one random person on the internet. What I think we're interested in is figuring out what public sentiment actually is, and what's causing it. For example, is it that most Chinese people are genuinely, organically outraged? Or is it a small, vocal minority that is being amplified by state media? Or is it mainly groups like the 50 Cent Army manipulating public opinion? It's hard to say, and I don't think the Western media is equipped to answer that question. As an example, there are reports that Chinese media outlets are dishonestly painting the HK protestors as largely a violent group that (among other things) are separatists. If people in China hear that, and believe that, I'd say outrage is completely understandable... but it's based on a false premise. But I don't -- and can't -- know what's actually happening over there, so it's just one explanation among many possibilities. How do we, as foreigners, get to the heart of the matter? Is it even possible? To your note about the language barrier: I think about that a lot. I speak/understand a very tiny amount of Chinese, and can read basically none (something I'd like to improve at soon). I was watching a recording of a clip of a Chinese news broadcast, and of course there was a translator speaking over it in English. How do I know the English translation was actually what was said? Even if the translators were acting in good faith, how do I know that the translation accurately expresses the intent of the speaker? I don't, and recognize that there are limits to how much I can understand what's going on. I think, also, for context, a lot of non-Chinese people naturally distrust China's government. Personally, I have trouble believing anything at face value that comes out of an authoritarian government, or the media apparatus that it controls. The US has many, many faults, but at least I can believe with reasonable certainty that the media outlets are saying things (whether right or wrong) because they want to say them, not because the government is forcing them to say things.

fucking_tragedy 7y ago

> the actual reaction of Chinese people on Weibo and other Chinese social media People are censored and punished for disagreeing with their government and its dictator-for-life.

kwizzt 7y ago
Do you think I'm censored by posting in HN? Do you believe I'm a wumao? I'm here speaking out of my own free will. I'm in the US and I don't agree with a lot of what CCP has done, but in terms on NBA and Hong Kong issues, I can see the reason why Chinese people feel differently from Americans, and I sometimes feel the same.
- goatsi 7y ago
  Do you believe HN and Weibo have the same level of censorship? You are talking about the reaction on Chinese social media platforms, which have a long and detailed history of censorship.
  - kwizzt 7y ago
    I agree with what you said. And the point of my previous post is trying to say that I'm not posting on Weibo and I'm not censored, yet I still have the similar sentiment that people who do post on Weibo have, tho not as extreme.
    - goatsi 7y ago
      You have a similar sentiment to what is permitted to be displayed on Weibo. As we have agreed, there is strong censorship on Weibo. Do you believe that pro Hong Kong protester posts would be permitted by that censorship? Clearly there is a strong anti Hong Kong protester reaction on Weibo. But with the heavy censorship we have no idea what percentage of the Chinese population might have a different view.
      - inimino 7y ago

gnode 7y ago

> I'll give you another video about Hong Kong protesters for a different perspective The video shows one person being frustrated that a road is blocked by protesters: "if you kill people, set fires, I don't care. But you're blocking the road." I'm sure if you look at any protest throughout history, you could find an anecdote of someone being inconvenienced by it.

kwizzt 7y ago
But do you see how the protesters treated this old lady? Pointing lasers at her eyes. Giving her the Chinese flag to make her look pro China. You still only seem to see how frustrated this lady was being while ignoring the behaviors by the protestors in this case
- kelnos 7y ago
  I think it's a pretty understandable reaction on the part of the protesters. "Hey, we're here fighting for our freedom -- and yours -- and you're pissed off that the road is blocked? Get bent, lady". Sure, perhaps they could be more patient with her (though I doubt I'd be in their situation) and shining the laser pointers in her face is not cool, but she's not exactly being friendly and nice to them, either. She also fundamentally does not get how protesting works. "Tell me, why do you people need to block the road?", she asks. Because if you sit in a corner and protest where no one can see you, and it doesn't affect anyone's day in the least, you're completely ineffective. It's not great that random people have a harder day because of that, but as a protester, you need to occupy space in a way that causes problems, or you aren't taken seriously. It's a shame that's how it has to be, but that's how it is. And beyond that, she's just lying and treating them poorly: accusing them of throwing things at her when they aren't, saying that they're armed when they aren't, claiming they want to beat her to death when they don't, and just overall acting completely irrationally. She even tells them that she doesn't care if they set fires and kill people, but just don't block the road. Even if she's being hyperbolic, that's a really shitty thing to say. Then she starts acting condescending, calling them kids who don't know what they're doing. Meanwhile, the "kids" just take it all, offering the truth in response, and she just ignores them and gets more agitated. Meanwhile, her only real complaint is that "the road is blocked". My sympathy for her is basically zero. I only watched the first few minutes of the video because of how utterly annoying and unreasonable I found her to be.

goatsi 7y ago

> the actual reaction of Chinese people on Weibo and other Chinese social media. That isn't the actual reaction of Chinese people, that's the reaction that the Chinese social media companies permit to be displayed. Do you think that a post supporting the Hong Kong protesters would be permitted by the censors?

taobility 7y ago
But the tweets and posts to support HK polices on Twitter/Facebook were deleted, how would you explain that?
- goatsi 7y ago
  Do you mean the recent tweet supporting the HK protesters? We know why that was deleted, because the Chinese government threatened the NBA. The NBA quickly caved, but it seems to have been too late: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/08/china-state-tv-suspends-nba-broadcasts-after-morey-hong-kong-tweet.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/08/china-state-tv-suspends-nba-...
moggie2 7y ago
The opinions in HK (which is not being censored) is widely divided also. It is not about the WHAT that they're asking, it is about HOW. If they are protesting peacefully, nobody would object - even the police. But then again, youthful protester would then claim that the only way that the government only listens when they use violence. The truth is, their voices were heard, it was just couldn't be agreed upon on. The younger generation's perspective in HK is like this - If I don't get what I ask for, you are not listening. Since you are not listening, I would do whatever it takes to make you listen to me, including breaking the law (destroying properties, set up fire in subway, beat up, lock up, surround or threaten people with different opinions). The enforcement is there to oppress me because they attempt to stop me from letting my voice be heard through breaking the law. Since they oppress me, I need to fight them back by throwing bricks, metals, slingshot, petrol bomb to them. Since they oppress me, their family deserve to die and their children deserved to be bullied at school. THAT is how they think and what they are doing currently. Certainly not all of the protesters are like that, but none of the protesters are willing to tell them that these radical protesters doing / thinking is wrong.