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Yea it is quite interesting how the 'invisible hand' seems to have branded sugar as a 'drug, akin to cocaine' since it signals dopamine in the brain. Refined su

Yea it is quite interesting how the 'invisible hand' seems to have branded sugar as a 'drug, akin to cocaine' since it signals dopamine in the brain. Refined sugar is nothing but sucrose, a natural compound found in plants and fruits. Surely not all dopamine signalling is bad, just bad/prolonged signalling. Sure, it does cause an insulin spike that causes insulin resistance in the long term but in selective use of blood sugar spiking lies its utility.

pazimzadeh 7y ago
Cocaine is also a natural compound. So's cyanide. Pretty sure the 'invisible hand' demonized animal fats and promoted sugar, and now people are are starting to come to their senses.
- machinelearning 7y ago
  Do you have a source showing that Cocaine is a natural compound? Perhaps the invisible hand did demonize animal fats and promote sugar but how is that in any way related to my argument?
  - pazimzadeh 7y ago
    Cocaine is found in coca leaves. "The pharmacologically active ingredient of coca is the cocaine alkaloid, which is found in the amount of about 0.3 to 1.5%, averaging 0.8%" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca Can you clarify what your argument is?
    - machinelearning 7y ago
      1. So you just contradicted yourself. Cocaine is not a naturally occurring compound but one extracted through a synthetic process specifically to inhibit re-uptake of certain neurotransmitters. 2. On the other hand, sugars have a very important purpose in the body and is present in fruits/vegetables. 3. Like my comment states, prolonged abuse of sugars certainly have negative effects, but as evident from the comment chain, people argue that any and all use of sugar is bad. That's the kind of coarse thinking that I think is harmful.
      - pazimzadeh 7y ago
        How did I contradict myself - I pointed out to you that cocaine is a naturally occurring compound, which it is. "Cocaine is not a naturally occurring compound but one generated through a synthetic process specifically to inhibit re-uptake of certain neurotransmitters" No, cocaine is extracted from coca leaves, it is not synthesized. Refined sugar is also extracted from plants - same thing.
        machinelearning 7y ago
        You are commenting on an older version of what I commented. I had already corrected that before your comment. I do know that cocaine alkaloids are extracted from plants. Sugar is not necessarily extracted from plants. Its not the same thing. You can simply eat 1-2 servings of most fruit to get the same amount of sugar as a can of soda. It doesn't have to be potent to be found in nature. Still, I don't see where your argument is going, we're arguing about the moderate use of sugar. The incans chewed on coca leaves and it seemed to enhance their long distance endurance. Are you arguing that any amount of sugar is de facto bad?
        pazimzadeh 7y ago
        I'm not sure what comment you're referring to, but you said "Refined sugar is nothing but sucrose, a natural compound found in plants and fruits" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21119863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21119863 You're the one who mentioned refined sugar. Nowhere have I said that any amount of sugar is bad. On the other hand, the parts of fruit that are beneficial are not the fructose (which is even worse for you than sucrose, which I assume is what you're talking about) but the vitamins, flavonoids and other compounds. We can agree that sugar is not de facto bad. Where we apparently disagree is that refined sugar is not bad. I still eat it - doesn't make it good. I would argue that coca leaves are not de facto bad, but refined cocaine is much closer to bad (though I hear it's really the impurities in street stuff that are bad.)
        machinelearning 7y ago
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
saagarjha 7y ago
> a natural compound found in plants and fruits So is cyanide and ricin.
- machinelearning 7y ago
  Is cyanide/ricin used by the body for energy and/or ubiquitous in nature?
  - pazimzadeh 7y ago
    DMT is. Should we consume DMT in the same way we consume sugar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine
    - machinelearning 7y ago
      Has DMT been shown to be vital for the healthy functioning of the human body? And does it necessarily have to be consumed to have ample levels in the body? I won't comment on your loaded phrasing of "the same way we consume sugar", but I think its obvious you're trying really hard to strawman my argument.
      - pazimzadeh 7y ago
        I think you are either unwilling or unable to read the scientific literature (which I've conveniently linked for you). None of what you are saying is correct. You do not need to consume refined sugar to have "ample levels" in your body. Is consuming refined sugar vital for the healthy functioning of the human body? FYI, it's not 100% clear whether humans produce DMT but it's highly likely https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45812-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45812-w.
        machinelearning 7y ago
        A wikipedia article is your notion of scientific literature? lol Anyways, I did read it and if you don't realize by now, my questions are rhetorical since you don't seem to have a strong logical foundation. >> Is consuming refined sugar vital for the healthy functioning of the human body? This is what I'm referring to as strawmanning my argument. Surely this is true of sugar in general and while I was referring to refined sugar as a potential vehicle for getting sugar into the body you decided to act as though I'm proposing getting 100% of your sugar intake from refined sugar. Your link strengthens what I just said. If DMT is produced endogenously surely its different from sugar that has to be consumed.
vnth93 7y ago
Are people campaigning against moderate use of sugar or the pervasiveness of sugary products? In some way the drug analogy is also true concerning the dosage and manner of which the two were commercialized and not just the reward mechanic. There is nothing particularly noteworthy about the consumption of the coca leaves as the various indigenous groups had done for centuries. Coca tea is still being drank is certain places. It is only a problem after the British discovered how to profit tremendously from the extracted alkaloid.

pazimzadeh 7y ago

Cocaine is also a natural compound. So's cyanide. Pretty sure the 'invisible hand' demonized animal fats and promoted sugar, and now people are are starting to come to their senses.

machinelearning 7y ago
Do you have a source showing that Cocaine is a natural compound? Perhaps the invisible hand did demonize animal fats and promote sugar but how is that in any way related to my argument?
- pazimzadeh 7y ago
  Cocaine is found in coca leaves. "The pharmacologically active ingredient of coca is the cocaine alkaloid, which is found in the amount of about 0.3 to 1.5%, averaging 0.8%" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca Can you clarify what your argument is?
  - machinelearning 7y ago
    1. So you just contradicted yourself. Cocaine is not a naturally occurring compound but one extracted through a synthetic process specifically to inhibit re-uptake of certain neurotransmitters. 2. On the other hand, sugars have a very important purpose in the body and is present in fruits/vegetables. 3. Like my comment states, prolonged abuse of sugars certainly have negative effects, but as evident from the comment chain, people argue that any and all use of sugar is bad. That's the kind of coarse thinking that I think is harmful.
    - pazimzadeh 7y ago
      How did I contradict myself - I pointed out to you that cocaine is a naturally occurring compound, which it is. "Cocaine is not a naturally occurring compound but one generated through a synthetic process specifically to inhibit re-uptake of certain neurotransmitters" No, cocaine is extracted from coca leaves, it is not synthesized. Refined sugar is also extracted from plants - same thing.
      - machinelearning 7y ago
        You are commenting on an older version of what I commented. I had already corrected that before your comment. I do know that cocaine alkaloids are extracted from plants. Sugar is not necessarily extracted from plants. Its not the same thing. You can simply eat 1-2 servings of most fruit to get the same amount of sugar as a can of soda. It doesn't have to be potent to be found in nature. Still, I don't see where your argument is going, we're arguing about the moderate use of sugar. The incans chewed on coca leaves and it seemed to enhance their long distance endurance. Are you arguing that any amount of sugar is de facto bad?
        pazimzadeh 7y ago
        I'm not sure what comment you're referring to, but you said "Refined sugar is nothing but sucrose, a natural compound found in plants and fruits" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21119863 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21119863 You're the one who mentioned refined sugar. Nowhere have I said that any amount of sugar is bad. On the other hand, the parts of fruit that are beneficial are not the fructose (which is even worse for you than sucrose, which I assume is what you're talking about) but the vitamins, flavonoids and other compounds. We can agree that sugar is not de facto bad. Where we apparently disagree is that refined sugar is not bad. I still eat it - doesn't make it good. I would argue that coca leaves are not de facto bad, but refined cocaine is much closer to bad (though I hear it's really the impurities in street stuff that are bad.)
        machinelearning 7y ago
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

saagarjha 7y ago

> a natural compound found in plants and fruits So is cyanide and ricin.

machinelearning 7y ago
Is cyanide/ricin used by the body for energy and/or ubiquitous in nature?
- pazimzadeh 7y ago
  DMT is. Should we consume DMT in the same way we consume sugar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimethyltryptamine
  - machinelearning 7y ago
    Has DMT been shown to be vital for the healthy functioning of the human body? And does it necessarily have to be consumed to have ample levels in the body? I won't comment on your loaded phrasing of "the same way we consume sugar", but I think its obvious you're trying really hard to strawman my argument.
    - pazimzadeh 7y ago
      I think you are either unwilling or unable to read the scientific literature (which I've conveniently linked for you). None of what you are saying is correct. You do not need to consume refined sugar to have "ample levels" in your body. Is consuming refined sugar vital for the healthy functioning of the human body? FYI, it's not 100% clear whether humans produce DMT but it's highly likely https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45812-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-45812-w.
      - machinelearning 7y ago
        A wikipedia article is your notion of scientific literature? lol Anyways, I did read it and if you don't realize by now, my questions are rhetorical since you don't seem to have a strong logical foundation. >> Is consuming refined sugar vital for the healthy functioning of the human body? This is what I'm referring to as strawmanning my argument. Surely this is true of sugar in general and while I was referring to refined sugar as a potential vehicle for getting sugar into the body you decided to act as though I'm proposing getting 100% of your sugar intake from refined sugar. Your link strengthens what I just said. If DMT is produced endogenously surely its different from sugar that has to be consumed.

vnth93 7y ago

Are people campaigning against moderate use of sugar or the pervasiveness of sugary products? In some way the drug analogy is also true concerning the dosage and manner of which the two were commercialized and not just the reward mechanic. There is nothing particularly noteworthy about the consumption of the coca leaves as the various indigenous groups had done for centuries. Coca tea is still being drank is certain places. It is only a problem after the British discovered how to profit tremendously from the extracted alkaloid.