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Also, (forgive me if I get the jargon wrong here...) isn't the vaping health crisis the article mentions due to sketchy THC vaping solutions that have Vitamin E

by mfoy_ 7y ago

Also, (forgive me if I get the jargon wrong here...) isn't the vaping health crisis the article mentions due to sketchy THC vaping solutions that have Vitamin E oil in them? Not Juul's nicotine stuff? I.e. because THC isn't water-soluble, it has to be suspended/dissolved in some oil-based thing. Lipids + lungs = BAD.

grenoire 7y ago
Problem is that even though the Juul cartridges are proprietary, that hasn't stopped people from making Juul-compatible off-brand products. There are of course other concerns besides the vaporised oils.
arzt 7y ago
Vitamin E acetate and myclobutanil are the most likely culprits. Myclobutanil is a fungicide that cannabis growers use to prevent mildew. It also turns into cyanide when heated. Speculation: State governments are leveraging the hysteria to slow a loss in excise tax revenue stemming from the decline in combustible cigarette use.
wyldfire 7y ago
Regulatory crackdown was probably spawned by the deaths caused by bad THC solvents. But while regulators peruse the industry they found that nicotine vapor companies like Juul had plenty of their own misdeeds.
- 34679 7y ago
  That's not how I see it. Regulators started cracking down on JUUL a couple years ago and drove the value of the company down until Phillip Morris bought 35÷. Then they backed off until JUUL started losing market share to the new generation of refillable vapes that use nicotine salt like the JUUL system. The difference? JUUL pods aren't meant to be refilled, and 4 pods with a total of 2 mL of juice will cost $20 in most states. With a refillable system, you can have 30mL of the same strength juice for $20. So, here come the regulators again to protect big tobacco. They want strict controls on who can manufacture juice. Less competition =more profit. JUUL only has a handful of flavors compared to the thousands of alternatives. So, here come the regulators to limit the flavors. And surely it's just a coincidence that the one flavor they really want to limit it to is tobacco, Phillip Morris's bread and butter. If you've been vaping a cucumber rosehips menthol juice every day, cigarette will taste like absolute shit. But if you only have the option of vaping tobacco flavored juice? Well, then a cigarette might not sound so bad. Sure, I agree that JUUL hasn't been an angel, and probably are guilty of marketing to kids. But that all started being investigated well before the tainted THC carts started making people sick.
vkou 7y ago
There's two vaping crises. One is THC vaping solutions that are killing people. The second is that we're currently living through a meteoric rise in nicotine addiction among teenagers. For a very long time, teenage nicotine use was going down, due to declines in smoking rates. Smoking rates still continue to decline, but nicotine vaping rates have gone up and to the right. 1 in 4 high school students are now vaping nicotine. That number is growing by ~20% year over year. This is a public health crisis.
- 34679 7y ago
  If it's not killing people, how is it a health crisis? Would it be a public health crisis if we had a meteoric rise in teens swimming, given that the risk of death or illness from swimming is far higher than it is from vaping?
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    > If it's not killing people, how is it a health crisis? I'm not sure we can safely say we know the long-term impact of vaping nicotine yet. There are also indications that the uptick in vaping has stalled the decline in cigarette smoking. https://www.concordmonitor.com/Youth-smoking-decline-stalls-and-vaping-may-be-to-blame-23442052 https://www.concordmonitor.com/Youth-smoking-decline-stalls-...
    - decebalus1 7y ago
      > I'm not sure we can safely say we know the long-term impact of vaping nicotine yet. So we can't say if it's a health crisis.. yet. Right? We also don't know of the long-term impact of melatonin but we're not considering people consuming it when they have insomnia to be a health crisis, right?
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        We've got evidence it's negatively affecting the known health crisis of cigarette smoking. I'm inclined to treat non-addictive melatonin and extremely-addictive nicotine differently in how we approach potential health risks.
situational87 7y ago
There is no clear answer yet, but some signs are pointing to the metal parts used in cartridges/vape chambers being the cause. Maybe just in counterfeit knockoffs, maybe not. It's unclear.
jnbiche 7y ago
Yes, the vaping deaths almost certainly are from black market, contaminated THC pods/cartridges. But why let a few facts get in the way of perfectly good outrage? Note: I'm not a smoker, but I feel strongly that vaping has the potential to dramatically decrease smoking deaths. More research is needed in lieu of the current media and government-driven hysteria.

by mfoy_ 7y ago

grenoire 7y ago

Problem is that even though the Juul cartridges are proprietary, that hasn't stopped people from making Juul-compatible off-brand products. There are of course other concerns besides the vaporised oils.

arzt 7y ago

Vitamin E acetate and myclobutanil are the most likely culprits. Myclobutanil is a fungicide that cannabis growers use to prevent mildew. It also turns into cyanide when heated. Speculation: State governments are leveraging the hysteria to slow a loss in excise tax revenue stemming from the decline in combustible cigarette use.

wyldfire 7y ago

Regulatory crackdown was probably spawned by the deaths caused by bad THC solvents. But while regulators peruse the industry they found that nicotine vapor companies like Juul had plenty of their own misdeeds.

34679 7y ago
That's not how I see it. Regulators started cracking down on JUUL a couple years ago and drove the value of the company down until Phillip Morris bought 35÷. Then they backed off until JUUL started losing market share to the new generation of refillable vapes that use nicotine salt like the JUUL system. The difference? JUUL pods aren't meant to be refilled, and 4 pods with a total of 2 mL of juice will cost $20 in most states. With a refillable system, you can have 30mL of the same strength juice for $20. So, here come the regulators again to protect big tobacco. They want strict controls on who can manufacture juice. Less competition =more profit. JUUL only has a handful of flavors compared to the thousands of alternatives. So, here come the regulators to limit the flavors. And surely it's just a coincidence that the one flavor they really want to limit it to is tobacco, Phillip Morris's bread and butter. If you've been vaping a cucumber rosehips menthol juice every day, cigarette will taste like absolute shit. But if you only have the option of vaping tobacco flavored juice? Well, then a cigarette might not sound so bad. Sure, I agree that JUUL hasn't been an angel, and probably are guilty of marketing to kids. But that all started being investigated well before the tainted THC carts started making people sick.

vkou 7y ago

There's two vaping crises. One is THC vaping solutions that are killing people. The second is that we're currently living through a meteoric rise in nicotine addiction among teenagers. For a very long time, teenage nicotine use was going down, due to declines in smoking rates. Smoking rates still continue to decline, but nicotine vaping rates have gone up and to the right. 1 in 4 high school students are now vaping nicotine. That number is growing by ~20% year over year. This is a public health crisis.

34679 7y ago
If it's not killing people, how is it a health crisis? Would it be a public health crisis if we had a meteoric rise in teens swimming, given that the risk of death or illness from swimming is far higher than it is from vaping?
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  > If it's not killing people, how is it a health crisis? I'm not sure we can safely say we know the long-term impact of vaping nicotine yet. There are also indications that the uptick in vaping has stalled the decline in cigarette smoking. https://www.concordmonitor.com/Youth-smoking-decline-stalls-and-vaping-may-be-to-blame-23442052 https://www.concordmonitor.com/Youth-smoking-decline-stalls-...
  - decebalus1 7y ago
    > I'm not sure we can safely say we know the long-term impact of vaping nicotine yet. So we can't say if it's a health crisis.. yet. Right? We also don't know of the long-term impact of melatonin but we're not considering people consuming it when they have insomnia to be a health crisis, right?
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      We've got evidence it's negatively affecting the known health crisis of cigarette smoking. I'm inclined to treat non-addictive melatonin and extremely-addictive nicotine differently in how we approach potential health risks.

situational87 7y ago

There is no clear answer yet, but some signs are pointing to the metal parts used in cartridges/vape chambers being the cause. Maybe just in counterfeit knockoffs, maybe not. It's unclear.

jnbiche 7y ago

Yes, the vaping deaths almost certainly are from black market, contaminated THC pods/cartridges. But why let a few facts get in the way of perfectly good outrage? Note: I'm not a smoker, but I feel strongly that vaping has the potential to dramatically decrease smoking deaths. More research is needed in lieu of the current media and government-driven hysteria.