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In my junior year of college (very early 2000s), a senior friend was accused of rape by a classmate. Within two days he had to hide out at my girlfriend's house

In my junior year of college (very early 2000s), a senior friend was accused of rape by a classmate. Within two days he had to hide out at my girlfriend's house because a large group of large athletes was on the hunt for him to beat him up. Within weeks he was expelled from school. I don't recall the police ever being contacted. Turns out the girl was ashamed she voluntarily slept with him. She admitted it to friends a couple months later. That was too late, of course. She received zero punishment. He was "lucky" that the police weren't notified on Day 1.

wccrawford 7y ago
I was once told (very emphatically) that no woman would lie about being raped because it's such a horrible thing. I just stood agape. People like about horrible things all the time to hide things that they think are more horrible. Worse, some people don't care about anyone but themselves, and will lie for any advantage or benefit.
- bonerman69 7y ago
  #BelieveAllWomen was in fact a real thing, a year ago....
  - mschuster91 7y ago
    As a reaction to a system where literally thousands of women's rape kits are not tested for years due to a combination of mismanagement, underfunding and understaffing, as well to structural issues such as male police officers not taking sexual assault accusations seriously or subjecting victims of assault to traumatizing questioning with no care about their mental well-being. Back then, the status quo was "if you're a woman and you got raped, good luck getting justice".
    - bonerman69 7y ago
      Yep, exactly my point! The believe all women hashtag was literally a real thing... Literally referring to rape claims!
    - justinjlynn 7y ago
      It's still that way, no matter how you present. If you're a woman, good luck getting justice after going through the horror of an exam and a police report in which you have to relive that same experience and a trial in which you often have to face your assailant directly, reliving it yet again. If you're a man, good luck even having your initial report recorded in the official record and then receiving no support in dealing with the trauma and violation and then risk being outed and treated like you're a weak subhuman if you dare try to reach out for help. It's one hell of a sick joke all around. Believe everyone when they say that they were assaulted, full stop. Everyone is entitled to compassion and care. In terms of making sure no one else is assaulted by the same person who assaulted them again? Collect all evidence, with all care, every single time, process it in a speedy manor and let the usual standards of criminal justice apply, as they always must. Anything less is a direct menace to society.
      - jeffdavis 7y ago
        How to deal with uncertainty: If you are not in a position of judgement or power, give all parties the benefit of the doubt -- accuser and accused -- and show compassion. Especially if they are personally right in front of you. If you are in a position of judgement or power, like a reporter, a judge, a prosecutor, or a juror; then use a fair and impartial process.
    - BonerBoi420 7y ago
      #testallkits seems more appropriate than #believeallwomen.
kenneth 7y ago
We should make the punishment for falsely accusing someone of rape equivalent to the punishment for rape. That's take care of the problem.
- janetacarr 7y ago
  This assumes the court system is infallible though when we know it is not. Plus, I can see something like this deterring actual victims from coming forward.
  - AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
    something like this deterring actual victims from coming forward This is also a possibility, but it's pretty much universally accepted that it's better to let a criminal go than to punish an innocent person.
    - LurkersWillLurk 7y ago
      I don't agree. I would argue that the rise of the victims' rights movement suggests that culturally, the United States is beginning to see the few false reports/convictions as an acceptable casualty to the vast majority of truthful reports. I mean, we have Marsy's Law being added to state constitutions left and right. One of its provisions is that the victim[1] can refuse a deposition before trial. This obviously conflicts with the accused's right to access all the evidence, does it not? Another provision limits the amount of time a convicted person can seek post-conviction relief. The goal here is to remove stress from the victim, but again, we have seen many convicted people be exonerated due to DNA evidence, or other evidence that arises after the fact. Again, this is a statement of values - that the deprivation of liberty is less important than the desire of the victim to not feel anxious about the perpetrator's possible release. [1] I would argue that calling a complainant a victim undermines the presumption of innocence. If you're a victim, it follows that the accused is a perpetrator.
      - kenneth 7y ago
not_a_cop75 7y ago
It's not just the school system. I don't dare so much as flirt with anyone in a friendly way, because that becomes fuel for a possible case. It really is to the point where outside of group settings, nothing should ever be done with the opposite sex outside of marriage itself. Whatever women's lib was trying to achieve, it begins to look more and more like Islamization daily. Not to say I hate either, but it seems they used to be opposite goal sets, but slowly they are evolving back to be one and the same. I want women to have rights, but anything where an accusation becomes instantly proof seems to throw us back towards older times of isolation.
- Jun8 7y ago
  Good point! My understanding is that the horrific situation depicted in The Handmaid’s Tale started by well-educated women pushing on women’s rights! Also suggest reading Houellebecq’s Submission for a related view about pushing legitimate viewpoints to extreme.
agumonkey 7y ago
I bet a few dollars that everything that is wrong about how we handle sex related issues (be it improper flirt, harassment, or more) is based on a long history of stories like this. Too often witness are unreliable. There's a gray area where only a patient and wise (ideally) judiciary system can make sense of all this. Otherwise.. it backfires in mobthink.
vinceguidry 7y ago
I think it's horrible that this happened, but to be perfectly honest, this is why society is having a massive argument around what consent means. Did she really consent to having sex with him if she felt so ashamed of it afterward that she accused him of raping her? How voluntary was it really? If you're a kid in this position, wondering whether it's dangerous to have sex, the answer is yes, it's one of the most dangerous things you can possibly do. Wasn't that long ago that having sex could put you in an early grave with an uncurable disease. So just add "false accusation of rape" to the ever growing list of things that can happen to you if you're not careful with your jubbly bits. Get everything in order before you start having sex. If you're in school, make sure your grades are decent, you know how to wrap it, line up someone who you know is interested and already have a friendly rapport with. To go about it in any other way at all is to invite grave danger. It's always been this way, there has been no point in at least the last 1000 years, probably even longer that sex couldn't royally ruin your life.
- senorjazz 7y ago
  Bollox. I don't think I could disagree more with practically everything you have written.
  - vinceguidry 7y ago
    Which part, do you think we shouldn't be worrying about consent issues when having sex? Or maybe that teenagers absolutely should be banging everything that moves?
- jeffdavis 7y ago
  Using your logic: Drugs are dangerous. Your rights being violated, your stuff being taken, and getting thrown in jail are just a few more dangers. If you don't want those things to happen, don't do drugs. The flaw is that you can't equate natural and artificial dangers. Natural dangers are equal-opportunity dangers. Artificial dangers can be used to oppress people. Also, avoiding behavior X is not enough to avoid the danger. There's not much evidence that Brett Kavanaugh was ever alone with Christine Blasey-Ford, but he still faced serious danger from her.
scandox 7y ago
Well this kind of anecdata if shared really has to come with details. Even if I knew and trusted you well I would need to hear about where the information comes from. There are huge gaps of detail to be filled in. I am not saying that false accusations do not happen. I'm saying these kind of hearsay stories are not even evidence for the people that tell them.
flatb 7y ago
I believe it's worthy to reflect on why and how this pretty much perfect, unconfirmed, and anecdotal story has been voted to the very top of yet another "white males are the real oppressed collective" submission written by an author that has recently published, among others, several pieces criticizing race inclusion in Harvard, defending Jordan Peterson as a "center-left to center-right" thinker and referring to the "the unbounded scope of his 19th-century intellectual ambition", or other illuminating, unbiased analyses such as "Is It OK to Be White?", "Is Feminist Lemonade Kosher?", "Microaggressions" ("I hated the sound of that brutal academic neologism"), or "My Favorite Anti-Semite".
really3452 7y ago
> Turns out the girl was ashamed she voluntarily slept with him. This happened to a classmate of mine in high school but it was reported to the police. He shot himself in the head.

wccrawford 7y ago

I was once told (very emphatically) that no woman would lie about being raped because it's such a horrible thing. I just stood agape. People like about horrible things all the time to hide things that they think are more horrible. Worse, some people don't care about anyone but themselves, and will lie for any advantage or benefit.

bonerman69 7y ago
#BelieveAllWomen was in fact a real thing, a year ago....
- mschuster91 7y ago
  As a reaction to a system where literally thousands of women's rape kits are not tested for years due to a combination of mismanagement, underfunding and understaffing, as well to structural issues such as male police officers not taking sexual assault accusations seriously or subjecting victims of assault to traumatizing questioning with no care about their mental well-being. Back then, the status quo was "if you're a woman and you got raped, good luck getting justice".
  - bonerman69 7y ago
    Yep, exactly my point! The believe all women hashtag was literally a real thing... Literally referring to rape claims!
  - justinjlynn 7y ago
    It's still that way, no matter how you present. If you're a woman, good luck getting justice after going through the horror of an exam and a police report in which you have to relive that same experience and a trial in which you often have to face your assailant directly, reliving it yet again. If you're a man, good luck even having your initial report recorded in the official record and then receiving no support in dealing with the trauma and violation and then risk being outed and treated like you're a weak subhuman if you dare try to reach out for help. It's one hell of a sick joke all around. Believe everyone when they say that they were assaulted, full stop. Everyone is entitled to compassion and care. In terms of making sure no one else is assaulted by the same person who assaulted them again? Collect all evidence, with all care, every single time, process it in a speedy manor and let the usual standards of criminal justice apply, as they always must. Anything less is a direct menace to society.
    - jeffdavis 7y ago
      How to deal with uncertainty: If you are not in a position of judgement or power, give all parties the benefit of the doubt -- accuser and accused -- and show compassion. Especially if they are personally right in front of you. If you are in a position of judgement or power, like a reporter, a judge, a prosecutor, or a juror; then use a fair and impartial process.
  - BonerBoi420 7y ago
    #testallkits seems more appropriate than #believeallwomen.

kenneth 7y ago

We should make the punishment for falsely accusing someone of rape equivalent to the punishment for rape. That's take care of the problem.

janetacarr 7y ago
This assumes the court system is infallible though when we know it is not. Plus, I can see something like this deterring actual victims from coming forward.
- AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
  something like this deterring actual victims from coming forward This is also a possibility, but it's pretty much universally accepted that it's better to let a criminal go than to punish an innocent person.
  - LurkersWillLurk 7y ago
    I don't agree. I would argue that the rise of the victims' rights movement suggests that culturally, the United States is beginning to see the few false reports/convictions as an acceptable casualty to the vast majority of truthful reports. I mean, we have Marsy's Law being added to state constitutions left and right. One of its provisions is that the victim[1] can refuse a deposition before trial. This obviously conflicts with the accused's right to access all the evidence, does it not? Another provision limits the amount of time a convicted person can seek post-conviction relief. The goal here is to remove stress from the victim, but again, we have seen many convicted people be exonerated due to DNA evidence, or other evidence that arises after the fact. Again, this is a statement of values - that the deprivation of liberty is less important than the desire of the victim to not feel anxious about the perpetrator's possible release. [1] I would argue that calling a complainant a victim undermines the presumption of innocence. If you're a victim, it follows that the accused is a perpetrator.
    - kenneth 7y ago

not_a_cop75 7y ago

It's not just the school system. I don't dare so much as flirt with anyone in a friendly way, because that becomes fuel for a possible case. It really is to the point where outside of group settings, nothing should ever be done with the opposite sex outside of marriage itself. Whatever women's lib was trying to achieve, it begins to look more and more like Islamization daily. Not to say I hate either, but it seems they used to be opposite goal sets, but slowly they are evolving back to be one and the same. I want women to have rights, but anything where an accusation becomes instantly proof seems to throw us back towards older times of isolation.

Jun8 7y ago
Good point! My understanding is that the horrific situation depicted in The Handmaid’s Tale started by well-educated women pushing on women’s rights! Also suggest reading Houellebecq’s Submission for a related view about pushing legitimate viewpoints to extreme.

agumonkey 7y ago

I bet a few dollars that everything that is wrong about how we handle sex related issues (be it improper flirt, harassment, or more) is based on a long history of stories like this. Too often witness are unreliable. There's a gray area where only a patient and wise (ideally) judiciary system can make sense of all this. Otherwise.. it backfires in mobthink.

vinceguidry 7y ago

I think it's horrible that this happened, but to be perfectly honest, this is why society is having a massive argument around what consent means. Did she really consent to having sex with him if she felt so ashamed of it afterward that she accused him of raping her? How voluntary was it really? If you're a kid in this position, wondering whether it's dangerous to have sex, the answer is yes, it's one of the most dangerous things you can possibly do. Wasn't that long ago that having sex could put you in an early grave with an uncurable disease. So just add "false accusation of rape" to the ever growing list of things that can happen to you if you're not careful with your jubbly bits. Get everything in order before you start having sex. If you're in school, make sure your grades are decent, you know how to wrap it, line up someone who you know is interested and already have a friendly rapport with. To go about it in any other way at all is to invite grave danger. It's always been this way, there has been no point in at least the last 1000 years, probably even longer that sex couldn't royally ruin your life.

senorjazz 7y ago
Bollox. I don't think I could disagree more with practically everything you have written.
- vinceguidry 7y ago
  Which part, do you think we shouldn't be worrying about consent issues when having sex? Or maybe that teenagers absolutely should be banging everything that moves?
jeffdavis 7y ago
Using your logic: Drugs are dangerous. Your rights being violated, your stuff being taken, and getting thrown in jail are just a few more dangers. If you don't want those things to happen, don't do drugs. The flaw is that you can't equate natural and artificial dangers. Natural dangers are equal-opportunity dangers. Artificial dangers can be used to oppress people. Also, avoiding behavior X is not enough to avoid the danger. There's not much evidence that Brett Kavanaugh was ever alone with Christine Blasey-Ford, but he still faced serious danger from her.

scandox 7y ago

Well this kind of anecdata if shared really has to come with details. Even if I knew and trusted you well I would need to hear about where the information comes from. There are huge gaps of detail to be filled in. I am not saying that false accusations do not happen. I'm saying these kind of hearsay stories are not even evidence for the people that tell them.

flatb 7y ago

I believe it's worthy to reflect on why and how this pretty much perfect, unconfirmed, and anecdotal story has been voted to the very top of yet another "white males are the real oppressed collective" submission written by an author that has recently published, among others, several pieces criticizing race inclusion in Harvard, defending Jordan Peterson as a "center-left to center-right" thinker and referring to the "the unbounded scope of his 19th-century intellectual ambition", or other illuminating, unbiased analyses such as "Is It OK to Be White?", "Is Feminist Lemonade Kosher?", "Microaggressions" ("I hated the sound of that brutal academic neologism"), or "My Favorite Anti-Semite".

really3452 7y ago

> Turns out the girl was ashamed she voluntarily slept with him. This happened to a classmate of mine in high school but it was reported to the police. He shot himself in the head.