5 ms·

Black engineer here at a FANG. I do this all the time with black candidates who interview. In fact I use my round to coach them on the upcoming rounds and give

Black engineer here at a FANG. I do this all the time with black candidates who interview. In fact I use my round to coach them on the upcoming rounds and give them stellar feedback afterward. I know many would think this is ethically egregious, but it is only balancing the unbelievable prejudice against them by Asian interviewers who would not pass a black candidate under any circumstance.

smt88 7y ago
Please do the world a favor and blow the whistle (or at least speak anonymously to a journalist) instead of trying to subvert a broken system.
- goog-anon 7y ago
  This problem gets written about every other month in the media. While revealing the details of my observations and experiences might be interesting, it's definitely not whistleblower material.
  - smt88 7y ago
    Your claim that the interviewers wouldn't pass black applicants "under any circumstances" is much stronger than any media report I've ever seen. Were you exaggerating?
    - goog-anon 7y ago
      > Were you exaggerating? Only slightly. Very strong candidates will more than likely get a pass, but those are exceedingly rare and haven't seen one yet tbh. It's the majority who are genuinely borderline/just above average who will never get a pass/given benefit of the doubt that are given to others.
azn_coder 7y ago
Pretty common in this industry. I worked at a few major companies( check article below). Not only was racism widespread, you were looked badly at for not helping your race. https://www.forbes.com/sites/morgansimon/2019/01/28/what-might-racism-cost-oracle-400m/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/morgansimon/2019/01/28/what-mig... It's actually very complicated, because there were a lot of backroom deals between the two major races to make it not look like racism.
- LanceH 7y ago
  This was my impression of politics in Mississippi. There was just enough back and forth on racial tension issues to keep both sides donors going strong and the incumbents at the trough.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
anon9922 7y ago
Is it fair to assume then that when you interview an Asian candidate, you will hold them to a much higher bar than black candidates? Or perhaps under no circumstances would you pass them for a role that another Black candidate is applying for? I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived racism with actual racism.
- goog-anon 7y ago
  >I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived racism with actual racism. No one think they have ever discriminated against someone based on ethnicity. Even Donald Trump sincerely believes in his heart of hearts that he is the least racist person who has ever walked this good earth. But actions speak louder than words, and my real life experiences are not 'perceived', nor are the results. If a black candidate has two Asian interviewers in a loop, chances of hire are nil, no matter the skill of the candidate. This is based on a sample of ~15-20. I really wish tech companies collected data about the ethnic background of both the interviewers, candidates and the results to clearly illuminate this glaring problem, otherwise everything I say is anecdotal/heresay. Even speaking for myself, when I've interviewed the only places I've received offers were during loops where there was a max of one asian interviewer. As for your first question, I'm getting into murky waters but I'll admit that it is difficult to put aside the fact that every Asian you hire, makes it harder for another black candidate to get hired. But it's definitely not as simple as rejecting every asian candidate, definitely don't want to leave a pattern behind :)
  - ecorithm 7y ago
    > As for your first question, I'm getting into murky waters but I'll admit that it is difficult to put aside the fact that every Asian you hire, makes it harder for another black candidate to get hired. But it's definitely not as simple as rejecting every asian candidate, definitely don't want to leave a pattern behind :) i'l leave it there. This has to be Poe's law. This is incredibly racist.
kappi 7y ago
what color of skin has anything to do with coding test?
neilv 7y ago
(I'm assuming you're speaking in good faith, though I don't yet understand your reasons for saying everything you did.) I appreciate your intent in trying to re-balance against prejudice. I also appreciate you helping out candidates with good advice, when you do it. That's what we should do for all colleagues, before, during, and after interviews, as mutually-supportive people of goodwill. And doing it more in some cases makes sense. I'm concerned about a pattern of racism you allege, and that sounds like something to investigate. I believe there's ample data that could be looked at. I don't know about your organization, but, some places, it would be politically safe to raise this important concern with your manager or HR. It's not a happy thing to look for, but looking for it, and figuring out how to fix any problems that appear, is the right thing to do (for the organization, and for greater society). The other side of that concern is that you seem to be singling out another labeled group, and stereotyping over them. That doesn't sound fair to that group, nor to all the individuals within it. I think that good practice for fighting injustice includes striving to improve things everywhere, including root causes -- not thinking only of the injustices with which we are most immediately familiar. The automatic stellar feedback might be a concern. I'm sure there's room for subjectivity, discretion, and holistic assessments, and maybe your stellar feedback fits within that. When I've given boosts to less-advantaged candidates (for various reasons, including "undiscovered diamonds in the rough"), I've been upfront with my peers and superiors about that. A big part of our job as engineers is to give characterizations and counsel, and, when we have something important to say, we want to be respected and taken seriously.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ados123 7y ago
Interviewed at multiple faang. You are 100% correct about Asians. They are extremely biased and discriminatory towards black candidates. Especially engineers. They hold the bar much higher for black candidates. They purposely ask harder and more abstract questions. Especially when it comes to coding. Ive seen this and experienced it myself as an engineer manager. Let's not even get into how they coach each other for interviews. If it was up to them there would bo ZERO black engineers in tech. Call out the unfair practices. They are definitely there.

smt88 7y ago

Please do the world a favor and blow the whistle (or at least speak anonymously to a journalist) instead of trying to subvert a broken system.

goog-anon 7y ago
This problem gets written about every other month in the media. While revealing the details of my observations and experiences might be interesting, it's definitely not whistleblower material.
- smt88 7y ago
  Your claim that the interviewers wouldn't pass black applicants "under any circumstances" is much stronger than any media report I've ever seen. Were you exaggerating?
  - goog-anon 7y ago
    > Were you exaggerating? Only slightly. Very strong candidates will more than likely get a pass, but those are exceedingly rare and haven't seen one yet tbh. It's the majority who are genuinely borderline/just above average who will never get a pass/given benefit of the doubt that are given to others.

azn_coder 7y ago

Pretty common in this industry. I worked at a few major companies( check article below). Not only was racism widespread, you were looked badly at for not helping your race. https://www.forbes.com/sites/morgansimon/2019/01/28/what-might-racism-cost-oracle-400m/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/morgansimon/2019/01/28/what-mig... It's actually very complicated, because there were a lot of backroom deals between the two major races to make it not look like racism.

LanceH 7y ago
This was my impression of politics in Mississippi. There was just enough back and forth on racial tension issues to keep both sides donors going strong and the incumbents at the trough.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

anon9922 7y ago

Is it fair to assume then that when you interview an Asian candidate, you will hold them to a much higher bar than black candidates? Or perhaps under no circumstances would you pass them for a role that another Black candidate is applying for? I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived racism with actual racism.

goog-anon 7y ago
>I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived racism with actual racism. No one think they have ever discriminated against someone based on ethnicity. Even Donald Trump sincerely believes in his heart of hearts that he is the least racist person who has ever walked this good earth. But actions speak louder than words, and my real life experiences are not 'perceived', nor are the results. If a black candidate has two Asian interviewers in a loop, chances of hire are nil, no matter the skill of the candidate. This is based on a sample of ~15-20. I really wish tech companies collected data about the ethnic background of both the interviewers, candidates and the results to clearly illuminate this glaring problem, otherwise everything I say is anecdotal/heresay. Even speaking for myself, when I've interviewed the only places I've received offers were during loops where there was a max of one asian interviewer. As for your first question, I'm getting into murky waters but I'll admit that it is difficult to put aside the fact that every Asian you hire, makes it harder for another black candidate to get hired. But it's definitely not as simple as rejecting every asian candidate, definitely don't want to leave a pattern behind :)
- ecorithm 7y ago
  > As for your first question, I'm getting into murky waters but I'll admit that it is difficult to put aside the fact that every Asian you hire, makes it harder for another black candidate to get hired. But it's definitely not as simple as rejecting every asian candidate, definitely don't want to leave a pattern behind :) i'l leave it there. This has to be Poe's law. This is incredibly racist.

kappi 7y ago

what color of skin has anything to do with coding test?

neilv 7y ago

(I'm assuming you're speaking in good faith, though I don't yet understand your reasons for saying everything you did.) I appreciate your intent in trying to re-balance against prejudice. I also appreciate you helping out candidates with good advice, when you do it. That's what we should do for all colleagues, before, during, and after interviews, as mutually-supportive people of goodwill. And doing it more in some cases makes sense. I'm concerned about a pattern of racism you allege, and that sounds like something to investigate. I believe there's ample data that could be looked at. I don't know about your organization, but, some places, it would be politically safe to raise this important concern with your manager or HR. It's not a happy thing to look for, but looking for it, and figuring out how to fix any problems that appear, is the right thing to do (for the organization, and for greater society). The other side of that concern is that you seem to be singling out another labeled group, and stereotyping over them. That doesn't sound fair to that group, nor to all the individuals within it. I think that good practice for fighting injustice includes striving to improve things everywhere, including root causes -- not thinking only of the injustices with which we are most immediately familiar. The automatic stellar feedback might be a concern. I'm sure there's room for subjectivity, discretion, and holistic assessments, and maybe your stellar feedback fits within that. When I've given boosts to less-advantaged candidates (for various reasons, including "undiscovered diamonds in the rough"), I've been upfront with my peers and superiors about that. A big part of our job as engineers is to give characterizations and counsel, and, when we have something important to say, we want to be respected and taken seriously.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ados123 7y ago

Interviewed at multiple faang. You are 100% correct about Asians. They are extremely biased and discriminatory towards black candidates. Especially engineers. They hold the bar much higher for black candidates. They purposely ask harder and more abstract questions. Especially when it comes to coding. Ive seen this and experienced it myself as an engineer manager. Let's not even get into how they coach each other for interviews. If it was up to them there would bo ZERO black engineers in tech. Call out the unfair practices. They are definitely there.