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This makes the wrong assumption that happiness comes with success. Success doesn’t bring happiness. If anything, being happy in the first place is what gives yo

This makes the wrong assumption that happiness comes with success. Success doesn’t bring happiness. If anything, being happy in the first place is what gives you a better chance at achieving success.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
puranjay 7y ago
That's a great way of looking at it!
kranner 7y ago
Even in day to day life, in my personal experience, being happy results in a creative, productive day full of happy curiosity in which I get a lot done and plan a lot of things to do in the future. Presumably that's the kind of day that builds to material success (if it's not what 'success' in itself looks like).
keyle 7y ago
Exactly. Even the quote used: > “Comparison is the thief of joy.” —Theodore Roosevelt Isn't 'success' a form of comparison? How do you quantify success? Is it binary? Is it a validation from peers? Do your own thing, be excellent at it, have fun.
- throes_death 7y ago
  Devils advocate here. Hi! Is it necessary to excel to be successful and/or happy?
  - abtinf 7y ago
    Yes, within the bounds of your ability.
  - mLuby 7y ago
    Yes, but the thing you're excelling at may not be what it seems at first glance. It is possible to be excellent at enjoying a simple life (most of us are terrible at it). It is possible to enjoy being terrible at something because it's fun(ny) or reminds us of our youth.
  - ljf 7y ago
    Said the happy and successful person. /s
- badestrand 7y ago
  > Isn't 'success' a form of comparison? How do you quantify success? The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language gives the two meanings - The achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted. - The gaining of fame or prosperity. of which the first one is entirely void of comparison. Your biggest desire is to live in a nice house in the country side with a wife and two kids? If you achieved that, congratulations, you are successful!
- zimbatm 7y ago
  The quote should be "Comparison to others is the thief of joy.". Overcoming your own limitation is a much better form of success. At least there is a form of control that you have on it.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Isn't 'success' a form of comparison? How do you quantify success? If you're happy and have achieved your goals, you're successful. No external quantification or validation required. You still need to compare your state with your desired state, but that's it.
peterlk 7y ago
My favorite quote addresses this: "Don't be mad 'cause I'm doin me better than you doin you" - Childish Gambino Figure out what that means for you, and you'll be successful. That's my theory anyway. The amount that I believe that theory varies from day to day, but I use it as a mantra to keep me level.
kang 7y ago
Exactly. Once you stop comparing, how can one be but successful, in being themselves?
didibus 7y ago
I think happiness comes most from acceptance, and then from having good company and people that care for you. Like you say, success is orthogonal, in fact, I think it's mostly unrelated.
crispinb 7y ago
It also makes some horrific assumptions about 'success', borrowed unthinkingly from one narrow strand of contemporary hyper-consumerist crap culture. I certainly wouldn't call Kroc nor Sanders 'successful'.
- taneq 7y ago
  That was my thought, what does "successful" mean if not "being happy". Someone living comfortably and loving every day is more "successful" than someone stressed out and crying on their private cruise liner.
  - crispinb 7y ago
    It does fits pretty well with much tech/YC/SV ideology though: hypertrophy for its own sake.
inlined 7y ago
Reminds me of a career limiting move I made at my first job. I was a rising star and got head hunted to be the first member on a new team for a critical project. I took the opportunity because it had a higher potential for career growth, but I ended up leaving the company. I considered my manager an egotistical jerk; he even called our 1:1s lessons. He told me that any part of my personality that didn’t line up with what the company would score on a Meyers Briggs was a problem. A senior engineer decided he was my mentor but constantly put me down. My team dangled the promise of a promotion if I could the job at my level and fulfill the job description of an open headcount two levels above me. I worked overnight every Tuesday sleeping only 4 hrs on my couch. I was miserable and in the end they said I couldn’t be promoted because the work I had was already stressing me out too much (I gave notice between reviews being finalized and revealed to make it clear this wasn’t a tantrum over my review) My takeaway: it doesn’t matter what the maximum possible achievement is in a job; you’ll only rise if you can enjoy it. Successful people aren’t happy; happy people are successful.
- saiya-jin 7y ago
  > Successful people aren’t happy; happy people are successful. In fact, many successful people with strong drive, very competitive etc. are deep down continuously unhappy. I mean, happy competitive person is a textbook oxymoron. At least that's how people I know with this trait are - always looking up to somebody faster, better, richer and not stopping and enjoying the moment.
- zimbatm 7y ago
  I would refine this a bit; happy people define their success through internal metrics. Don't let other decide what success means to you. Employers try to convince you that your success is correlated with what they want to do, but it is not the case. They are paying you to do your job and that's all. Ads try to convince you that success depends on purchasing their stuff, but it is not the case. There is always more stuff to buy. In fact it might hinder your success if it puts you in debt or prevents you from becoming financially independent. Parents often try to convince you that success depends on the agenda they created for you. Fuck all of this. Success is what you decide it is. If you like to write software, work on becoming a better developer. The market being as it is, the workplace success is then a side-effect. Obviously all of this is a bit simplified but not being pushed around helps a lot for being happy I find.
it_aint_that 7y ago
contentment > happiness > success
mikekchar 7y ago
Success is surprisingly fun. However, allow me to make a distinction. For a lot of people instead of wishing to do something, they wish to have done something. So for example, they may say that they wish to make a lot of money, but actually they want to have made a lot of money. The idea in their head is lounging on the beach with cute waiting staff at their beck and call. However the thing they end up doing is working themselves to the bone making money. It's really important when you set goals for yourself that you understand the distinction. Personally, mostly avoid going after goals in the shape of "to have done something" and rather go after goals of "to do something". If I don't like studying Japanese, then I don't do it and I don't have a goal to have learned Japanese. If I don't like running I don't do it and I don't have a goal to have run a marathon. And if I don't like doing what it takes to make a lot of money, I don't have a goal to have made a lot of money. Those kinds of things are in our ability to choose. The other strange thing that I found for myself (and I think it's different for different people) is that "goals to have done something" are just not satisfying for me. I get no pleasure from having achieved anything. I only get pleasure achieving things. I love being successful. I'm completely neutral about having been successful. For me, being successful really truly brings me happiness. I therefore choose to do things where I will likely be successful in a sustainable way.
- wishwish 7y ago
  Perhaps you deny people the right to wish things they will never have? The true thing to know is that most of your dreams will never come true and you should'nt be sad about it. Just to please the hive mind of HN: Don’t aim to be successful — aim to be hardworking https://medium.com/@s.sekulins/the-first-step-to-surpassing-your-limits-and-achieving-your-wildest-dreams-f29056615979 https://medium.com/@s.sekulins/the-first-step-to-surpassing-... https://medium.com/the-ascent/popular-delusion-3-common-and-devastating-lies-we-must-stop-telling-ourselves-c45f830a33c5 https://medium.com/the-ascent/popular-delusion-3-common-and-... https://medium.com/the-ascent/how-to-become-successful-in-3-minutes-92052e3574e5 https://medium.com/the-ascent/how-to-become-successful-in-3-...
- alexpetralia 7y ago
  This is a very useful distinction. Thanks!
gbuk2013 7y ago
This is a very important distinction to make. Success is external: it is a certain set of arrangements in your exterior circumstances. Happiness is internal: it is a certain state of your mind and your emotions. Because success is external, it is not fully within your control. For example, your environment, other people, your physical circumstances all have an impact. It does not have a definition - it can literally mean whatever you want it to be. Because happiness is internal it is fully within your control. If you have control over your mind and emotions you can be happy in an instant, if you consciously chose to do so. And if you are happy, then success becomes easier as you are free to use your mind to identify what you want and the things that you need to do to get that.
harimau777 7y ago
I agree with your overall point. However, I think that there's also a sense in which to many people it is important to be able to succeed even if the success itself isn't important. It's the classic "got something to prove" situation. I think that in many cases the process of proving themselves brings happiness. It reminds me of a quote I remember from an old article on T-Nation that goes something like "Its true that the majority of bodybuilders started due to some insecurity. However, its probably a lot healthier than the way that most people deal with their insecurity".
wishwish 7y ago
those who sell happiness are in the business of directing your life, so just be yourself.
- wishwish 7y ago
  I don't know why HN hide my comments, anyway here they are again: Perhaps you deny people the right to wish things they will never have? The true thing to know is that most of your dreams will never come true and you should'nt be sad about it. Just to please the hive mind of HN: Don’t aim to be successful — aim to be hardworking https://medium.com/@s.sekulins/the-first-step-to-surpassing-.. https://medium.com/@s.sekulins/the-first-step-to-surpassing-.... https://medium.com/the-ascent/popular-delusion-3-common-and-.. https://medium.com/the-ascent/popular-delusion-3-common-and-.... https://medium.com/the-ascent/how-to-become-successful-in-3-.. https://medium.com/the-ascent/how-to-become-successful-in-3-....

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

puranjay 7y ago

That's a great way of looking at it!

kranner 7y ago

Even in day to day life, in my personal experience, being happy results in a creative, productive day full of happy curiosity in which I get a lot done and plan a lot of things to do in the future. Presumably that's the kind of day that builds to material success (if it's not what 'success' in itself looks like).

keyle 7y ago

Exactly. Even the quote used: > “Comparison is the thief of joy.” —Theodore Roosevelt Isn't 'success' a form of comparison? How do you quantify success? Is it binary? Is it a validation from peers? Do your own thing, be excellent at it, have fun.

throes_death 7y ago
Devils advocate here. Hi! Is it necessary to excel to be successful and/or happy?
- abtinf 7y ago
  Yes, within the bounds of your ability.
- mLuby 7y ago
  Yes, but the thing you're excelling at may not be what it seems at first glance. It is possible to be excellent at enjoying a simple life (most of us are terrible at it). It is possible to enjoy being terrible at something because it's fun(ny) or reminds us of our youth.
- ljf 7y ago
  Said the happy and successful person. /s
badestrand 7y ago
> Isn't 'success' a form of comparison? How do you quantify success? The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language gives the two meanings - The achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted. - The gaining of fame or prosperity. of which the first one is entirely void of comparison. Your biggest desire is to live in a nice house in the country side with a wife and two kids? If you achieved that, congratulations, you are successful!
zimbatm 7y ago
The quote should be "Comparison to others is the thief of joy.". Overcoming your own limitation is a much better form of success. At least there is a form of control that you have on it.
coldtea 7y ago
>Isn't 'success' a form of comparison? How do you quantify success? If you're happy and have achieved your goals, you're successful. No external quantification or validation required. You still need to compare your state with your desired state, but that's it.

peterlk 7y ago

My favorite quote addresses this: "Don't be mad 'cause I'm doin me better than you doin you" - Childish Gambino Figure out what that means for you, and you'll be successful. That's my theory anyway. The amount that I believe that theory varies from day to day, but I use it as a mantra to keep me level.

kang 7y ago

Exactly. Once you stop comparing, how can one be but successful, in being themselves?

didibus 7y ago

I think happiness comes most from acceptance, and then from having good company and people that care for you. Like you say, success is orthogonal, in fact, I think it's mostly unrelated.

crispinb 7y ago

It also makes some horrific assumptions about 'success', borrowed unthinkingly from one narrow strand of contemporary hyper-consumerist crap culture. I certainly wouldn't call Kroc nor Sanders 'successful'.

taneq 7y ago
That was my thought, what does "successful" mean if not "being happy". Someone living comfortably and loving every day is more "successful" than someone stressed out and crying on their private cruise liner.
- crispinb 7y ago
  It does fits pretty well with much tech/YC/SV ideology though: hypertrophy for its own sake.

inlined 7y ago

Reminds me of a career limiting move I made at my first job. I was a rising star and got head hunted to be the first member on a new team for a critical project. I took the opportunity because it had a higher potential for career growth, but I ended up leaving the company. I considered my manager an egotistical jerk; he even called our 1:1s lessons. He told me that any part of my personality that didn’t line up with what the company would score on a Meyers Briggs was a problem. A senior engineer decided he was my mentor but constantly put me down. My team dangled the promise of a promotion if I could the job at my level and fulfill the job description of an open headcount two levels above me. I worked overnight every Tuesday sleeping only 4 hrs on my couch. I was miserable and in the end they said I couldn’t be promoted because the work I had was already stressing me out too much (I gave notice between reviews being finalized and revealed to make it clear this wasn’t a tantrum over my review) My takeaway: it doesn’t matter what the maximum possible achievement is in a job; you’ll only rise if you can enjoy it. Successful people aren’t happy; happy people are successful.

saiya-jin 7y ago
> Successful people aren’t happy; happy people are successful. In fact, many successful people with strong drive, very competitive etc. are deep down continuously unhappy. I mean, happy competitive person is a textbook oxymoron. At least that's how people I know with this trait are - always looking up to somebody faster, better, richer and not stopping and enjoying the moment.
zimbatm 7y ago
I would refine this a bit; happy people define their success through internal metrics. Don't let other decide what success means to you. Employers try to convince you that your success is correlated with what they want to do, but it is not the case. They are paying you to do your job and that's all. Ads try to convince you that success depends on purchasing their stuff, but it is not the case. There is always more stuff to buy. In fact it might hinder your success if it puts you in debt or prevents you from becoming financially independent. Parents often try to convince you that success depends on the agenda they created for you. Fuck all of this. Success is what you decide it is. If you like to write software, work on becoming a better developer. The market being as it is, the workplace success is then a side-effect. Obviously all of this is a bit simplified but not being pushed around helps a lot for being happy I find.

it_aint_that 7y ago

contentment > happiness > success

mikekchar 7y ago

Success is surprisingly fun. However, allow me to make a distinction. For a lot of people instead of wishing to do something, they wish to have done something. So for example, they may say that they wish to make a lot of money, but actually they want to have made a lot of money. The idea in their head is lounging on the beach with cute waiting staff at their beck and call. However the thing they end up doing is working themselves to the bone making money. It's really important when you set goals for yourself that you understand the distinction. Personally, mostly avoid going after goals in the shape of "to have done something" and rather go after goals of "to do something". If I don't like studying Japanese, then I don't do it and I don't have a goal to have learned Japanese. If I don't like running I don't do it and I don't have a goal to have run a marathon. And if I don't like doing what it takes to make a lot of money, I don't have a goal to have made a lot of money. Those kinds of things are in our ability to choose. The other strange thing that I found for myself (and I think it's different for different people) is that "goals to have done something" are just not satisfying for me. I get no pleasure from having achieved anything. I only get pleasure achieving things. I love being successful. I'm completely neutral about having been successful. For me, being successful really truly brings me happiness. I therefore choose to do things where I will likely be successful in a sustainable way.

wishwish 7y ago
Perhaps you deny people the right to wish things they will never have? The true thing to know is that most of your dreams will never come true and you should'nt be sad about it. Just to please the hive mind of HN: Don’t aim to be successful — aim to be hardworking https://medium.com/@s.sekulins/the-first-step-to-surpassing-your-limits-and-achieving-your-wildest-dreams-f29056615979 https://medium.com/@s.sekulins/the-first-step-to-surpassing-... https://medium.com/the-ascent/popular-delusion-3-common-and-devastating-lies-we-must-stop-telling-ourselves-c45f830a33c5 https://medium.com/the-ascent/popular-delusion-3-common-and-... https://medium.com/the-ascent/how-to-become-successful-in-3-minutes-92052e3574e5 https://medium.com/the-ascent/how-to-become-successful-in-3-...
alexpetralia 7y ago
This is a very useful distinction. Thanks!

gbuk2013 7y ago

This is a very important distinction to make. Success is external: it is a certain set of arrangements in your exterior circumstances. Happiness is internal: it is a certain state of your mind and your emotions. Because success is external, it is not fully within your control. For example, your environment, other people, your physical circumstances all have an impact. It does not have a definition - it can literally mean whatever you want it to be. Because happiness is internal it is fully within your control. If you have control over your mind and emotions you can be happy in an instant, if you consciously chose to do so. And if you are happy, then success becomes easier as you are free to use your mind to identify what you want and the things that you need to do to get that.

harimau777 7y ago

I agree with your overall point. However, I think that there's also a sense in which to many people it is important to be able to succeed even if the success itself isn't important. It's the classic "got something to prove" situation. I think that in many cases the process of proving themselves brings happiness. It reminds me of a quote I remember from an old article on T-Nation that goes something like "Its true that the majority of bodybuilders started due to some insecurity. However, its probably a lot healthier than the way that most people deal with their insecurity".

wishwish 7y ago

those who sell happiness are in the business of directing your life, so just be yourself.

wishwish 7y ago
I don't know why HN hide my comments, anyway here they are again: Perhaps you deny people the right to wish things they will never have? The true thing to know is that most of your dreams will never come true and you should'nt be sad about it. Just to please the hive mind of HN: Don’t aim to be successful — aim to be hardworking https://medium.com/@s.sekulins/the-first-step-to-surpassing-.. https://medium.com/@s.sekulins/the-first-step-to-surpassing-.... https://medium.com/the-ascent/popular-delusion-3-common-and-.. https://medium.com/the-ascent/popular-delusion-3-common-and-.... https://medium.com/the-ascent/how-to-become-successful-in-3-.. https://medium.com/the-ascent/how-to-become-successful-in-3-....