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> old systems can't cope Actually "old systems" aren't the bottleneck. It's limited gates and radio frequency time. And those will be less of a problem after

> old systems can't cope Actually "old systems" aren't the bottleneck. It's limited gates and radio frequency time. And those will be less of a problem after 1/3 of aircraft turn into pumpkins when they "forget" to do the mandatory ADS-B installation this year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillance_%E2%80%93_broadcast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillan...

bronco21016 7y ago
Radio frequency congestion is a major issue in throughput. One of the many issues at La Guardia in NYC is being able to even get a word in to let ATC know you’re ready to taxi. Aircraft are sitting on the ramp waiting to move and in turn aircraft that have landed are waiting to park because the outbound aircraft can’t get out of the way because they can’t get clearance to taxi. It’s a major pain. Last week I witnessed first hand how enroute frequencies are jammed as well. Flying in and out of Atlanta as severe thunderstorms surrounded the arrival corridor aircraft were diverting everywhere. You could hardly get a word in in time to tell them you were diverting around the storms. Hopefully CPDLC will alleviate some of this. Something certainly needs to change.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Jeff_Brown 7y ago
  Isn't radio an "old system" ripe for change? The cellular network accommodates millions of users in a space the size of Manhattan. Why do airplanes need to use a channel with such narrow throughput? Also, voice uses far, far more bandwidth than text.
  - p_l 7y ago
    The simple system is reliable, has certain anti-locking behaviors, and doesn't depend on complex electronics while being obvious if jamming happens
cperciva 7y ago
Actually "old systems" aren't the bottleneck. It's limited gates and radio frequency time. Did we read the same article? One of the problems specifically mentioned about old ATC systems is that they rely on voice communication while text messages would be more efficient.
- Aloha 7y ago
  I see obvious safety issues with relying on text messages for aircraft communications, notably situational awareness.
  - TheSoftwareGuy 7y ago
    You could maybe have a speech synthesizer on the other end?
  - Karrot_Kream 7y ago
    Have a digital frequency for routine communication: like authorization to taxi, take off, clearances, flight plans, pattern requests, confirmations, and traffic. Keep an analog frequency for communicating through emergencies (kind of like Guard).
    - bencoder 7y ago
      Sometimes dangerous situations are averted by pilots realising the controller had made an error, like clearing a plane to cross a runway while another is taking off [0] This kind of thing might be much harder to catch if clearances are given in text, or even impossible if they are routed only to the specific aircraft. [0] https://youtu.be/w9lXcDYTg3Q https://youtu.be/w9lXcDYTg3Q
gruez 7y ago
>And those will be less of a problem after 1/3 of aircraft turn into pumpkins when they "forget" to do the mandatory ADS-B installation this year. Explain? Are 1/3 of planes not going to get ADS-B installed, and therefore can't fly? Are these commerical planes? If so, are businesses really this incompetent?

bronco21016 7y ago

Radio frequency congestion is a major issue in throughput. One of the many issues at La Guardia in NYC is being able to even get a word in to let ATC know you’re ready to taxi. Aircraft are sitting on the ramp waiting to move and in turn aircraft that have landed are waiting to park because the outbound aircraft can’t get out of the way because they can’t get clearance to taxi. It’s a major pain. Last week I witnessed first hand how enroute frequencies are jammed as well. Flying in and out of Atlanta as severe thunderstorms surrounded the arrival corridor aircraft were diverting everywhere. You could hardly get a word in in time to tell them you were diverting around the storms. Hopefully CPDLC will alleviate some of this. Something certainly needs to change.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Jeff_Brown 7y ago
Isn't radio an "old system" ripe for change? The cellular network accommodates millions of users in a space the size of Manhattan. Why do airplanes need to use a channel with such narrow throughput? Also, voice uses far, far more bandwidth than text.
- p_l 7y ago
  The simple system is reliable, has certain anti-locking behaviors, and doesn't depend on complex electronics while being obvious if jamming happens

cperciva 7y ago

Actually "old systems" aren't the bottleneck. It's limited gates and radio frequency time. Did we read the same article? One of the problems specifically mentioned about old ATC systems is that they rely on voice communication while text messages would be more efficient.

Aloha 7y ago
I see obvious safety issues with relying on text messages for aircraft communications, notably situational awareness.
- TheSoftwareGuy 7y ago
  You could maybe have a speech synthesizer on the other end?
- Karrot_Kream 7y ago
  Have a digital frequency for routine communication: like authorization to taxi, take off, clearances, flight plans, pattern requests, confirmations, and traffic. Keep an analog frequency for communicating through emergencies (kind of like Guard).
  - bencoder 7y ago
    Sometimes dangerous situations are averted by pilots realising the controller had made an error, like clearing a plane to cross a runway while another is taking off [0] This kind of thing might be much harder to catch if clearances are given in text, or even impossible if they are routed only to the specific aircraft. [0] https://youtu.be/w9lXcDYTg3Q https://youtu.be/w9lXcDYTg3Q

gruez 7y ago

>And those will be less of a problem after 1/3 of aircraft turn into pumpkins when they "forget" to do the mandatory ADS-B installation this year. Explain? Are 1/3 of planes not going to get ADS-B installed, and therefore can't fly? Are these commerical planes? If so, are businesses really this incompetent?