6 ms·

I think DSLs are about defining a 100% textual format. And spreadsheets are GUI apps. There's a DSL for defining a cell formula but in total it's a small part o

by twa927 7y ago

I think DSLs are about defining a 100% textual format. And spreadsheets are GUI apps. There's a DSL for defining a cell formula but in total it's a small part of the experience of using a spreadsheet app.

mannykannot 7y ago
> I think DSLs are about defining a 100% textual format. Spreadsheets are an argument for thinking outside of that particular box.
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  Spreadsheets are about thinking inside of a lot of little general boxes, instead of just one big particular box.
claimred 7y ago
What about Unreal Blueprints, Dynamo BIM? Visual GUI doesn't make them less DSLish.
- twa927 7y ago
  I think these are examples of a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_programming_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_programming_language, while https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-specific_language#Examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-specific_language#Examp... are purely text-based.
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    Don't confuse a deficiency of a wikipedia article for the definition of that thing.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - twa927 7y ago
      So where should I look up the definition of a DSL?
      - detaro 7y ago
        Let's take the Wikipedia definition, not the examples list: > A domain-specific language (DSL) is a computer language specialized to a particular application domain. where computer language links to a list of things that includes "programming languages", which visual programming languages are a part of. Other sections of the article also mention some graphical examples, e.g. UML. (which isn't a programming language, but a modeling language, also used sometimes as an input to software)
darkpuma 7y ago
> "I think DSLs are about defining a 100% textual format." That's an unjustified qualification. I could throw together a spreadsheet format that is all text. The spreadsheet GUI then becomes a advanced text editor that, when editing that particular format, exposes advanced content-aware controls not at all unlike advanced text editors like emacs can for s-expressions. We can bridge the gap in other ways too, for instance the '2d' racket language that lets you do control flow using a two-dimensional ascii art grid: https://docs.racket-lang.org/2d/index.html https://docs.racket-lang.org/2d/index.html It's not hard to see how this concept could be iterated on to become something quite like a spreadsheet, and with editor support the editor/language combination would begin to look a lot like a spreadsheet too.
- teddyh 7y ago
  > I could throw together a spreadsheet format that is all text. […] The spreadsheet GUI then becomes a advanced text editor that, when editing that particular format, exposes advanced content-aware controls not at all unlike advanced text editors like emacs can for s-expressions. Emacs already has that, included in org-mode: https://orgmode.org/org.html#Tables https://orgmode.org/org.html#Tables (Emacs also has an even more spreadsheet-like mode; ses-mode, but that saves its data in less-than-purely-textual format. Or, at least, less textual than org-mode.)
- twa927 7y ago
  > That's an unjustified qualification. I could throw together a spreadsheet format that is all text. The spreadsheet GUI then becomes a advanced text editor that, when editing that particular format, exposes advanced content-aware controls not at all unlike advanced text editors like emacs can for s-expressions. If you could invent a text format that could be efficiently edited with a basic text editor then I would agree it's a DSL. But I feel like you would lose a lot by dropping a dedicated GUI, e.g.: - horizontal scrolling of columns, adding, hiding columns - "smart copying" a formula by scrolling down - selection of rows/columns/cells I don't think anybody would use such DSL using a basic editor. Overall it's discussion about the definitions of terms, but I don't understand why people want to capture anything having some "editable format" as a "DSL" when addtional terms like "visual programming" allow more differentiation?

by twa927 7y ago

mannykannot 7y ago

> I think DSLs are about defining a 100% textual format. Spreadsheets are an argument for thinking outside of that particular box.

DonHopkins 7y ago
Spreadsheets are about thinking inside of a lot of little general boxes, instead of just one big particular box.

claimred 7y ago

What about Unreal Blueprints, Dynamo BIM? Visual GUI doesn't make them less DSLish.

twa927 7y ago
I think these are examples of a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_programming_language https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_programming_language, while https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-specific_language#Examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain-specific_language#Examp... are purely text-based.
- darkpuma 7y ago
  Don't confuse a deficiency of a wikipedia article for the definition of that thing.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - twa927 7y ago
    So where should I look up the definition of a DSL?
    - detaro 7y ago
      Let's take the Wikipedia definition, not the examples list: > A domain-specific language (DSL) is a computer language specialized to a particular application domain. where computer language links to a list of things that includes "programming languages", which visual programming languages are a part of. Other sections of the article also mention some graphical examples, e.g. UML. (which isn't a programming language, but a modeling language, also used sometimes as an input to software)

darkpuma 7y ago

> "I think DSLs are about defining a 100% textual format." That's an unjustified qualification. I could throw together a spreadsheet format that is all text. The spreadsheet GUI then becomes a advanced text editor that, when editing that particular format, exposes advanced content-aware controls not at all unlike advanced text editors like emacs can for s-expressions. We can bridge the gap in other ways too, for instance the '2d' racket language that lets you do control flow using a two-dimensional ascii art grid: https://docs.racket-lang.org/2d/index.html https://docs.racket-lang.org/2d/index.html It's not hard to see how this concept could be iterated on to become something quite like a spreadsheet, and with editor support the editor/language combination would begin to look a lot like a spreadsheet too.

teddyh 7y ago
> I could throw together a spreadsheet format that is all text. […] The spreadsheet GUI then becomes a advanced text editor that, when editing that particular format, exposes advanced content-aware controls not at all unlike advanced text editors like emacs can for s-expressions. Emacs already has that, included in org-mode: https://orgmode.org/org.html#Tables https://orgmode.org/org.html#Tables (Emacs also has an even more spreadsheet-like mode; ses-mode, but that saves its data in less-than-purely-textual format. Or, at least, less textual than org-mode.)
twa927 7y ago
> That's an unjustified qualification. I could throw together a spreadsheet format that is all text. The spreadsheet GUI then becomes a advanced text editor that, when editing that particular format, exposes advanced content-aware controls not at all unlike advanced text editors like emacs can for s-expressions. If you could invent a text format that could be efficiently edited with a basic text editor then I would agree it's a DSL. But I feel like you would lose a lot by dropping a dedicated GUI, e.g.: - horizontal scrolling of columns, adding, hiding columns - "smart copying" a formula by scrolling down - selection of rows/columns/cells I don't think anybody would use such DSL using a basic editor. Overall it's discussion about the definitions of terms, but I don't understand why people want to capture anything having some "editable format" as a "DSL" when addtional terms like "visual programming" allow more differentiation?