8 ms·

Any kind of illness, including a mental illness, is a weakness.

by wswkb 7y ago

asveikau 7y ago
If you want to play a game with literal definitions, maybe. The problem is that this phrasing implies fault and stigma. No one should be considered weak for this.
- wswkb 7y ago
  Let's agree to disagree, then. :)
  - asveikau 7y ago
    This issue is so important that you will not get agreement to disagree from me on this. I hope you don't have to deal with a loved one, or god forbid your own self, suffering from a horrible illness to see how idiotic your opinion is, because in addition to not being the fault of the suffer it is not a lot of fun. Then some jerk like you will come along and make that sufferer feel worse. So if you have it in you, please be less of a jerk.
    - wswkb 7y ago
      Well according to your philosophy if you are suffering from a horrible illness you are not weaker, so there's no reason to feel bad about your illness. I wish I could wear that kind of rose-coloured glasses.
    - fromthestart 7y ago
      >Then some jerk like you will come along and make that sufferer feel worse That's absolutely ridiculous. Its absurd to deny reality to preserve people's feelings. One can acknowledge that mental illness is a form of weakness without treating people poorly. The problem doesn't come from the fact that people consider mental illness as a form of weakness, but from the fact that mental illness makes people less resilient to life's trials. Pretending there's nothing wrong with being mentally ill doesn't do anyone any favors; in fact I'd argue it's worse than acknowledgement as it may discourage treatment at least as much as the current stigma. I think the only one being a jerk here is you. Perhaps your definition of weakness needs adjustment, since you seem to conflate it with choice.
      - asveikau 7y ago
        I'm afraid you misunderstand. If popular belief is that this happens to somebody because of weakness, or because they are weak people, people will resist talking about it and letting on that they show symptoms ("showing weakness") and there will be no treatment. Then in real life, some people do react that way when people have the courage to admit to it, and if people are made to believe their symptoms are a character flaw, then again, no treatment, only people feeling bad. I didn't make this stuff up, I've seen it happen. And it doesn't happen to people from "their weakness". It is a very jerk move, and absurd, to go anywhere near that phrasing. Just as we don't get cancer or a broken leg from being weak people.
        wswkb 7y ago
        I understand your point. Still I disagree. I want to call things by their name even if calling them by their name might make people feel bad (not seek help, etc).
        asveikau 7y ago
        You say you understand it but I think you do not. If someone has cancer, do you say, "I guess a stronger person wouldn't have gotten that tumor"? There are correlations with genetics that can make someone predisposed etc. but it is absolutely wrong thinking to say it happens because of "weakness", it is, however unfortunate, a natural part of the spectrum of human condition.
        DuskStar 7y ago
        It isn't "you got cancer because you were weak", it's "getting cancer makes you weaker". There's a rather critical difference there.
    - dang 7y ago
      Personal attacks are not ok on HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. Even if someone else is being a jerk, responding in kind helps nothing. Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and not posting like this here in the future?
beenBoutIT 7y ago
Although other kinds of weaknesses can be temporary while mental illness is uniquely binary and permanent.
- asveikau 7y ago
  > mental illness is ... permanent Disagree. Some mental illnesses are temporary. For example some people will only have a single psychotic episode that will not recur: https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/mental-health-brief-psychotic-disorder https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/mental-health-brie... I imagine a lot of mental illnesses that do not involve psychosis are sometimes this way too, but this is the one that came to mind where the temporary aspect is literally part of the name. Other than that... People can respond well to treatment, and many of the disorders are episodic, with the episodes being temporary.
  - beenBoutIT 7y ago
    That's actually a permanent problem that only rears its head when the shit hits the fan. If the triggering stress was applied consistently the mental illness would be ongoing.
    - asveikau 7y ago
      I think that says more about the nature of psychosis brought on by extreme stress than it does about the patient. The article says genetics can be a factor, but for this diagnosis in particular calling it a permanent attribute of the sufferer seems misguided. It seems naive to think that most of us wouldn't completely break down with the right amount of stress, maybe varying amounts for different people.
eeZah7Ux 7y ago
"weakness" is a bit of a judgemental word.
Supermancho 7y ago
> Any kind of illness, including a mental illness, is a weakness. That's too broad to remain true in all cases. You have to defined what is a weakness to what, or you're just making a meaningless laconic statement. I have no aorta (due to a malformed aorta at birth). It's particularly good defense against an aortic dissection and guarantees no aortic aneurysm. If you have no arms or legs, good luck getting meta-carpal syndrome. The point is that you've made a flippant comment with the misplaced expectation that it equates to wisdom.

Any kind of illness, including a mental illness, is a weakness.

by wswkb 7y ago

Any kind of illness, including a mental illness, is a weakness.

If you want to play a game with literal definitions, maybe. The problem is that this phrasing implies fault and stigma. No one should be considered weak for this.

wswkb 7y ago
Let's agree to disagree, then. :)
- asveikau 7y ago
  This issue is so important that you will not get agreement to disagree from me on this. I hope you don't have to deal with a loved one, or god forbid your own self, suffering from a horrible illness to see how idiotic your opinion is, because in addition to not being the fault of the suffer it is not a lot of fun. Then some jerk like you will come along and make that sufferer feel worse. So if you have it in you, please be less of a jerk.
  - wswkb 7y ago
    Well according to your philosophy if you are suffering from a horrible illness you are not weaker, so there's no reason to feel bad about your illness. I wish I could wear that kind of rose-coloured glasses.
  - fromthestart 7y ago
    >Then some jerk like you will come along and make that sufferer feel worse That's absolutely ridiculous. Its absurd to deny reality to preserve people's feelings. One can acknowledge that mental illness is a form of weakness without treating people poorly. The problem doesn't come from the fact that people consider mental illness as a form of weakness, but from the fact that mental illness makes people less resilient to life's trials. Pretending there's nothing wrong with being mentally ill doesn't do anyone any favors; in fact I'd argue it's worse than acknowledgement as it may discourage treatment at least as much as the current stigma. I think the only one being a jerk here is you. Perhaps your definition of weakness needs adjustment, since you seem to conflate it with choice.
    - asveikau 7y ago
      I'm afraid you misunderstand. If popular belief is that this happens to somebody because of weakness, or because they are weak people, people will resist talking about it and letting on that they show symptoms ("showing weakness") and there will be no treatment. Then in real life, some people do react that way when people have the courage to admit to it, and if people are made to believe their symptoms are a character flaw, then again, no treatment, only people feeling bad. I didn't make this stuff up, I've seen it happen. And it doesn't happen to people from "their weakness". It is a very jerk move, and absurd, to go anywhere near that phrasing. Just as we don't get cancer or a broken leg from being weak people.
      - wswkb 7y ago
        I understand your point. Still I disagree. I want to call things by their name even if calling them by their name might make people feel bad (not seek help, etc).
        asveikau 7y ago
        You say you understand it but I think you do not. If someone has cancer, do you say, "I guess a stronger person wouldn't have gotten that tumor"? There are correlations with genetics that can make someone predisposed etc. but it is absolutely wrong thinking to say it happens because of "weakness", it is, however unfortunate, a natural part of the spectrum of human condition.
        DuskStar 7y ago
        It isn't "you got cancer because you were weak", it's "getting cancer makes you weaker". There's a rather critical difference there.
  - dang 7y ago
    Personal attacks are not ok on HN, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. Even if someone else is being a jerk, responding in kind helps nothing. Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and not posting like this here in the future?

beenBoutIT 7y ago

Although other kinds of weaknesses can be temporary while mental illness is uniquely binary and permanent.

asveikau 7y ago
> mental illness is ... permanent Disagree. Some mental illnesses are temporary. For example some people will only have a single psychotic episode that will not recur: https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/mental-health-brief-psychotic-disorder https://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/mental-health-brie... I imagine a lot of mental illnesses that do not involve psychosis are sometimes this way too, but this is the one that came to mind where the temporary aspect is literally part of the name. Other than that... People can respond well to treatment, and many of the disorders are episodic, with the episodes being temporary.
- beenBoutIT 7y ago
  That's actually a permanent problem that only rears its head when the shit hits the fan. If the triggering stress was applied consistently the mental illness would be ongoing.
  - asveikau 7y ago
    I think that says more about the nature of psychosis brought on by extreme stress than it does about the patient. The article says genetics can be a factor, but for this diagnosis in particular calling it a permanent attribute of the sufferer seems misguided. It seems naive to think that most of us wouldn't completely break down with the right amount of stress, maybe varying amounts for different people.

eeZah7Ux 7y ago

"weakness" is a bit of a judgemental word.

Supermancho 7y ago

> Any kind of illness, including a mental illness, is a weakness. That's too broad to remain true in all cases. You have to defined what is a weakness to what, or you're just making a meaningless laconic statement. I have no aorta (due to a malformed aorta at birth). It's particularly good defense against an aortic dissection and guarantees no aortic aneurysm. If you have no arms or legs, good luck getting meta-carpal syndrome. The point is that you've made a flippant comment with the misplaced expectation that it equates to wisdom.