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Maybe it isn't, but other languages/frameworks have improved the past ten years as well. I don't see the selling point in building something in PHP in 2019 when

Maybe it isn't, but other languages/frameworks have improved the past ten years as well. I don't see the selling point in building something in PHP in 2019 when you have similar if not better/more mature languages/frameworks at your disposal. Won't your prototyping be faster in Go/Python/Node/Ruby anyway, with a more stable surface to build upon it? I really fail to see where PHP has its place in 2019. For your "build a minimally viable product fast", the above win. For enterprise stuff, the good old Java/C# win.

jbrooksuk 7y ago
> Won't your prototyping be faster in Go/Python/Node/Ruby anyway, with a more stable surface to build upon it? One of the most understated pros of PHP (IMHO) is that it's so easy to get setup with. You can start hacking on something so quickly. In my experience, Go has not been like that. Node.js also was never as quick.
- chimen 7y ago
  Not really the case with Docker. I can spin up a container targeting any language in less than 10 seconds, mount a volume and start hacking away. Best of all, it doesn't pollute my system in any way. We shouldn't pick a language just by how easy it is to get started, a decision which often leads to a lot of regrets. Pick whatever is good for the project not your disposition.
  - simion314 7y ago
    But I am productive with PHP, I don't know docker or related tool chains, I am more productive in PHP then Python(because of my own experience and dilikes for Python like syntax), the ecosystems are equivalent for my task so I would use PHP. Buf if PHP was not good enough then sure I would always use the best task for the job(I used Java for a different project or even use a bash script and pipe UNIX tools)
- jeltz 7y ago
  But other languages like Python and Ruby are even easier to get started with than PHP.
  - tenken 7y ago
    I worked with rails in the 1.x and 2.x days. Deployment was a joke and you had to restart the whole Ruby server to update scripts. PHP you simply refresh your browser page to see the changes. This has all changed in recent years and rails deployment/debugging is much smoother.
EugeneOZ 7y ago
It only means you don't know PHP enough. No offense, I moved from PHP to Rust after 11 years of using it, but it was definitely not because of tools or speed of development. I just prefer strict typing and Rust's errors handling. If somebody prefers dynamic languages and want to create some prototype - it can be done even without any frameworks, quickly enough, with millions of libraries for any need.
megous 7y ago
Stable? Big e-shop I wrote in 2005 in PHP works without any compatibility issues until today. No need to re-compile anything, to fix bugs in the runtime, etc. Ruby was some obscure language just gaining acceptance back then, node didn't exist, golang didn't exist, C# has just invented iterators. PHP showed over the years that it was a stable and painless surface to build on. And I don't see it changing.
mgkimsal 7y ago
Referencing "go" and somehow smuggling in 'mature' in there without mentioning the dependency management situation is ... disheartening. There may be many reasons to like the go language, but the dep management issue doesn't seem solved at all (last viewed in Nov 2018 - maybe it's all magically better and there's 80% community consensus and everything is smooth now?)
joelbluminator 7y ago
Very good documentation, stable and widely used is the strong points for php.
aczerepinski 7y ago
That's how I feel. I'm glad to hear it's improved, but "not as bad as it used to be" isn't a compelling argument that would make me consider PHP over Elixir/Go.

jbrooksuk 7y ago

> Won't your prototyping be faster in Go/Python/Node/Ruby anyway, with a more stable surface to build upon it? One of the most understated pros of PHP (IMHO) is that it's so easy to get setup with. You can start hacking on something so quickly. In my experience, Go has not been like that. Node.js also was never as quick.

chimen 7y ago
Not really the case with Docker. I can spin up a container targeting any language in less than 10 seconds, mount a volume and start hacking away. Best of all, it doesn't pollute my system in any way. We shouldn't pick a language just by how easy it is to get started, a decision which often leads to a lot of regrets. Pick whatever is good for the project not your disposition.
- simion314 7y ago
  But I am productive with PHP, I don't know docker or related tool chains, I am more productive in PHP then Python(because of my own experience and dilikes for Python like syntax), the ecosystems are equivalent for my task so I would use PHP. Buf if PHP was not good enough then sure I would always use the best task for the job(I used Java for a different project or even use a bash script and pipe UNIX tools)
jeltz 7y ago
But other languages like Python and Ruby are even easier to get started with than PHP.
- tenken 7y ago
  I worked with rails in the 1.x and 2.x days. Deployment was a joke and you had to restart the whole Ruby server to update scripts. PHP you simply refresh your browser page to see the changes. This has all changed in recent years and rails deployment/debugging is much smoother.

EugeneOZ 7y ago

It only means you don't know PHP enough. No offense, I moved from PHP to Rust after 11 years of using it, but it was definitely not because of tools or speed of development. I just prefer strict typing and Rust's errors handling. If somebody prefers dynamic languages and want to create some prototype - it can be done even without any frameworks, quickly enough, with millions of libraries for any need.

megous 7y ago

Stable? Big e-shop I wrote in 2005 in PHP works without any compatibility issues until today. No need to re-compile anything, to fix bugs in the runtime, etc. Ruby was some obscure language just gaining acceptance back then, node didn't exist, golang didn't exist, C# has just invented iterators. PHP showed over the years that it was a stable and painless surface to build on. And I don't see it changing.

mgkimsal 7y ago

Referencing "go" and somehow smuggling in 'mature' in there without mentioning the dependency management situation is ... disheartening. There may be many reasons to like the go language, but the dep management issue doesn't seem solved at all (last viewed in Nov 2018 - maybe it's all magically better and there's 80% community consensus and everything is smooth now?)

joelbluminator 7y ago

Very good documentation, stable and widely used is the strong points for php.

aczerepinski 7y ago

That's how I feel. I'm glad to hear it's improved, but "not as bad as it used to be" isn't a compelling argument that would make me consider PHP over Elixir/Go.