7 ms·

> "I hope you get hit!" This, to me, signals the general attitude people have towards bicyclists in the US. The average person either doesn't care or, for some

> "I hope you get hit!" This, to me, signals the general attitude people have towards bicyclists in the US. The average person either doesn't care or, for some misguided reason or another, actively hates bicyclists. I've been yelled at by drivers for no apparent reason so many times I've lost count. I've had so many friends hit by cars. My partner was struck by a car last fall and broke her leg in two places. She's still recovering and frequently has to lie down for hours because her leg is so sore. Just the other day a friend of mine was struck and had to get stitches in her face. I think the problem here is a mixture of infrastructure and attitude. The infrastructure side of things is usually what we talk about, which is obviously an important part of the discussion, but I don't think the problem with peoples' overall attitude towards bicycling gets enough attention. There are so many people out there who legitimately wish to harm bicyclists. Don't take my word for it, in 2016 a driver purposely murdered 5 bicyclists (in an area close to where I live, no less) with his vehicle and was sentenced in 2018[1]. Although most are likely accidents, there are other examples of drivers purposefully striking bicyclists with their vehicles if you look. It's really sad, I think it's a symptom of something a lot more sinister happening to the hearts and minds of people in this country, and it's why I no longer ride my bike in the city anymore. [1] https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2018/05/charles_pickett_jr_murder_tria.html https://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/2018/05/charles_pickett...

techsupporter 7y ago
> This, to me, signals the general attitude people have towards bicyclists in the US. The average person either doesn't care or, for some misguided reason or another, actively hates bicyclists. I've been yelled at by drivers for no apparent reason so many times I've lost count. My experience as a pedestrian (I don't ride a bike on the street so I can't speak to that experience) mirrors this. More than once, I've been honked or yelled at for being in an actual, marked crosswalk, crossing the street. (Never mind all of the driver complaints about my use of legal, unmarked crosswalks.) On a former commute, I regularly got off the bus at a bus stop immediately adjacent to a signaled crosswalk that several of us used. We regularly got honked at by drivers bringing their cars to a screeching halt as the light changed and, once on a holiday, when it was just me and my kid, a driver yelled "if you weren't so fucking poor you wouldn't have to ride the bus!" > It's really sad, I think it's a symptom of something a lot more sinister happening to the hearts and minds of people in this country Agreed, and I live in a city where ways of getting to work and around town that aren't a single-occupant vehicle are now in the cumulative majority yet the pushback has increased even more. People regularly write letters to the local paper about how they "openly" use the bus and bike lanes for their cars because "[screw] those entitled people." I hold a driving license and, until recently, owned a car that I regularly used. This behavior ought to be unacceptable and more actively enforced against but I can only imagine the uproar if an even light "crackdown" happened.
- mywittyname 7y ago
  > "if you weren't so fucking poor you wouldn't have to ride the bus!" I honestly think this is a huge factor in violence against cyclists & pedestrians. Drivers think you're automatically beneath them in the societal pecking order if you're walking or biking, so they feel justified or entitled to victimize you. People do similar shit to other people who they perceive to be poor, such as homeless, maids, delivery drivers, etc.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    Yes, it's very interesting. I moved to a city (in the US) where driving a car is actually unnecessary, so I sold mine and ride a bike as my primary transportation. I am so happy to not have to deal with car ownership -- it's improved my life tremendously. Although I haven't been subjected to any abuse about it, more than once I have had people make comments about when I'll be able to buy a car, as if finances are why I don't have one. The funny thing is that my income is in the top 5% of the area, and I have enough liquid cash right now to buy almost any car I want outright. I just don't want one. People make weird assumptions.
    - noir_lord 7y ago
      Same boat, I could go buy a car in cash tomorrow but I don’t have a drivers license. People react with incredulity when I tell them I don’t have a car. I live a 15 minute walk from the center of town and work and the UK has reasonable bus service in most towns so why would I spend thousands on a car and hundreds a month to park a vehicle I never use outside my house. I cycle for fitness and pleasure though and most car drivers are lovely but we do have the odd dickhead as well.
      - paulryanrogers 7y ago
        Do you have children? I've noticed having a family had impacted my cycling lifestyle tremendously.
        7y ago
kendallpark 7y ago
It's easier to change infrastructure to be pro-cycling than it is to change the culture. I'll take mindful drivers over protected bike lanes, any day. The only protected lane in my town (Madison) is one that goes against traffic. Drivers here are generally aware and accommodating when it comes to cyclists. I feel safer biking here (snow and all) than any other city I've lived in.
- analog31 7y ago
  Man, that lane gave me the willies, first time I rode on it. ;-) But I agree about Madison. One other thing I've noticed is that here's also much less of a car culture. For instance it seems that people are outraged if their work commute is more than 10 minutes. And you don't see as many of the giant cars, SUV's, pickup trucks, etc. One thing that may help is that a number of large employers are all concentrated near the center of town: Government offices, the university, and the hospitals. This makes it desirable to live within the city limits, but also to look for alternatives to the relatively expensive and inconvenient parking lots.
  - kendallpark 7y ago
    > One other thing I've noticed is that here's also much less of a car culture. I think a big factor is the lack of freeways in downtown Madison (not sure if this was intentional or a byproduct of the isthmus + Capitol Square). A lot of people attribute Vancouver's success with alternative transportation to a 1960's decision against urban freeways. Without the option of a freeway, incentives and cultural attitudes are more aligned toward biking, busing, etc.
aeternus 7y ago
My guess is that the driver had been yelled at by a biker in the past. I've seen bikers chew out drivers, or yell profanities many times in SF. They sometimes/usually have a good reason to do so, but that kind of behavior just breeds contempt and animosity between the two groups.
- sgarman 7y ago
  I think that's reasonable and sometimes find myself in that group. Instead of yelling what do you think the is the best way to handle a driver intentionally running you off the road?
  - rhinoceraptor 7y ago
    Take out their valve cores once they park? :)
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    I wouldn't hesitate to note their license plate # and report them to the police. It may not help, but it might -- particularly if more than one person reports the same car over time.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    A well-placed U-lock makes a satisfying dent in a roof or quarter panel.
- actuator 7y ago
  Yeah, sometimes they have. Once riding around a bike near Powell street in SF in a bike lane with 10 mph limit. A car approached me from behind. Initially it was probably at 40 mph but it slowed down as it came near me. But it was scary as hell as you have inherent assumptions when you are in a bike lane.
lostphilosopher 7y ago
Ok, I'll say it - bicyclists tend to annoy me. Obviously, I don't shout at them, or try to hit them, or make them think I'm trying to hit them. That's nuts. That seems like a problem separate for bike/car relations. I doubt someone who behaves that way in a car gets out of it and suddenly becomes a calm and reasonable person. But here's my assessment of why bikes annoy me. Not argument that they should, just some introspection. * They make me nervous. Cars are easy to see, have lots of momentum to overcome, and generally exist on a predictable well defined plane. Bikes are different. They can enter the car plane from places I don't expect and didn't even realize existed. They can make 90 degree turns on a dime (relative to my sedan) and can stop in inches. They don't generally obey traffic lights, stop signs, one ways, or any of the other rules that lend predictability to car behavior. They don't have brake lights or signals. And in a complex driving environment, they're tiny and often poorly lit. They also have no protection. Slow moving car crashes aka "fender benders" are expensive and annoying, but rarely dangerous. Similar accidents involving a bike can end lives. Having a bike near me makes me worried I'm going to hit it. I don't want to live with that so I give it huge space and pay it lots of attention. If I could drive on roads that didn't have bikes I'd prefer it. * Civic disagreement. The arguments in favor of making roads more bike friendly are generally: more healthy, more space efficient, more environmentally friendly. I agree on healthy and environmentally friendly. Though, it does seem odd when someone tells me biking is super healthy and super dangerous in the same sentence, but I cede the point. Space efficient? Yes and no. It is more space efficient for people whose options are bike vs car to ride a bike, but there's tons of people that doesn't apply to - people who live far away, people who need to haul things, people who have health issues, people who are too young etc. Also, lots of people don't want to bike in heat, rain, snow, etc. Also, not everyone has a place to change and shower when they get to work. The shower issue and the distance issue disproportionately impact people who are less well off. I get that biking can be part of the solution, but man does it get over hyped. * Guilt/jealousy. I really enjoy biking! If I'm in my car and you're on your bike - I'm pretty sure you're having more fun than I am, and that makes me jealous. Then I start asking myself why I'm not biking, and sometimes the answer makes me feel guilty. Neither of those emotions often get followed up with - let's arrange it so I can experience more of this.
- mikepurvis 7y ago
burlesona 7y ago
I’m not sure how broadly this generalizes. Having lived in 7 different regions in the US I would say 4 were cycling-friendly and 3 were cycling-hostile.
apeace 7y ago
I would never yell at a bicyclist, and certainly would never hope one got hit. But I have to say, as an NYC pedestrian, I actively hate bicyclists. They don't follow the rules of the road--at all. Red lights? Stop signs? Ignored. Pedestrians crossing in a crosswalk? Probably fine to whiz past them with 6 inches to spare. I almost get hit by fast-moving bikes once or twice a year. A car has never even come close to hitting me in eight years. Not even those crazy taxi drivers. I have no idea what possesses these people to blast through a red light, into a busy intersection, without slowing down or even looking, but they do it! It has always seemed to me that bicyclists see something "different" about their mode of transportation that exempts them from most traffic laws. And the crazy thing is that they keep asking for more bike lanes. (I'm not accusing you of being this way. But I think this may be the reason lots of people have a hatred of bicyclists. I know many people in the city who feel the same way I do.)
- karmakaze 7y ago
  Part of the problem certainly is impedence mismatch-different flows in a shared path. The solution to this part is infrastructure. We also greatly need better awareness and it goes all ways. When learning to ride a motorcycle I learned how bad a pedestrian I was.
- closeparen 7y ago
  Bikes and cars have very different situational awareness, mass, agility, stopping distance, etc. It would be very surprising if the optimal rules for both were exactly the same.
- rayiner 7y ago
  I feel the same way here in DC. Both as a pedestrian and as a driver. (For example, the other day my wife and I were trying to cross a street and nearly got hit by a bicyclist going the wrong way in the lane. Of course, I was looking for cars following the rules and didn’t think to look for a bicycle coming from the other direction.)
- hector_vasquez 7y ago
  As a former NYC cyclist, I can say that your accusations are patently absurd. First, if cyclists blasted through red lights without looking we would all get hit by cars within a few intersections. Second, of course cars have come close to hitting you. It's New York. That's how they drive there. It is always jarring to hear what I anecdotally believe to be a minority of pedestrians who actually believe that cyclists are in any way, shape, or form more of a threat to their safety than motor vehicles. Luckily for us all, NYC is getting more and more friendly to cycling, though it still does have a long way to go.
t413 7y ago
> and it's why I no longer ride my bike in the city anymore So is your response to just drive a car then? That's a most-poignant tragedy of the commons.
bsder 7y ago
> This, to me, signals the general attitude people have towards bicyclists in the US. Maybe, but if you have ever tried to get around in Cambridge, MA, you would understand that it is a disaster for everybody. Pedestrians walk into intersections when they shouldn't and block traffic, sometimes indefinitely. Bicyclists ignore signs, lights, people, etc. and cut off cars randomly. And cars have to shove their way through the mess or they will never get anywhere. Cambridge traffic is simply dreadful. Go read Neal Stephenson's "Zodiac" for a taste.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Why is anyone driving in Cambridge? This reminds me of a relative who insisted on renting a car in Bali. Just... why? Note: I have driven in Cambridge, and will do again, when there is a compelling reason to do so. Commuting during rush hour is not a compelling reason.
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    > Why is anyone driving in Cambridge? Mostly because they have somewhere to be on a schedule. I've lived in Cambridge for ~20 years. For about 1/4 of that time, I walked to my office in Kendall about half the time and drove the other half. Bus service was completely impractical and trying to take the subway one stop took vastly longer than walking or driving. The other 3/4 of the time, I had a job outside Cambridge -> driving to/from work everyday -> driving in/across/around parts of Cambridge everyday. Now, with kids in elementary school (start time 8:15 sharp, pickup 2:25 sharp), we drive to/from school 8-10x a week. Before they were in school, to/from daycare (can't dropoff before 8:30; must pickup by 5:30 sharp; can't push a stroller on a bike) and work meant plenty of car trips as well. Before kids, to/from work and then to after-work team sports often meant needing to drive as well. Public transport in Cambridge, except directly red line T stop to T stop, is not for those who are on any kind of schedule. The bus service is a disaster, IMO.
Spooky23 7y ago
I biked to work for several years. I see both sides somewhat. Cyclists are their own worst enemies, as many are a bunch of idiots that flaunt traffic laws, put pedestrians at risk and behave poorly. Engineering practices don’t account for cyclists well. That’s getting better where i live, but more need to be done there as well as educating folks on what to do in difficult car/bike/pedestrian scenarios.
rlue 7y ago
It should be noted that the perpetrator in the murder case you referenced was on methamphetamine, muscle relaxers, and pain medication at the time of the incident. There truly is a lot of hostility for cyclists out there, and I think it would be wiser to cite cases that don't have complicating factors like this, such as: * https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/cyclist-sentenced.html https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/cyclist-sente... * https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/31/why-so-hard-charge-motorists-cycling-deaths https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/31/why-so-hard-... * https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/08/11/video-cyclist-survives-intentional-hit-and-run-on-second-avenue/ https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/08/11/video-cyclist-survive... * https://www.narcity.com/news/this-ontario-driver-has-been-charged-after-intentionally-hitting-a-cyclist-explicit-video https://www.narcity.com/news/this-ontario-driver-has-been-ch... * https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7502828-181/chp-hit-and-run-driver-intentionally-struck https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7502828-181/chp-hit-and-r... * https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/must-reads/video-motorist-deliberately-drove-into-cyclist-in-a-prank-filmed-from-his-car/07/01/ https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/must-reads/video-motorist-... * https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/22/smirking-driver-records-braking-deliberately-make-cyclist-crash-8980222/ https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/22/smirking-driver-records-braki... * https://www.dailybulletin.com/2018/11/03/police-bicyclist-killed-in-intentional-collision-in-claremont-driver-arrested-on-suspicion-of-murder/ https://www.dailybulletin.com/2018/11/03/police-bicyclist-ki... * https://www.ldnews.com/story/news/local/2018/05/16/cyclist-hopes-ride-again-after-being-intentionally-hit-car/596455002/ https://www.ldnews.com/story/news/local/2018/05/16/cyclist-h... * https://ggwash.org/view/34715/driver-assaults-bicyclist-police-ticket-bicyclist https://ggwash.org/view/34715/driver-assaults-bicyclist-poli... * https://cambridge.wickedlocal.com/news/20170505/police-driver-hits-cambridge-cyclist-intentionally-in-road-rage-incident https://cambridge.wickedlocal.com/news/20170505/police-drive...
SauciestGNU 7y ago
I live in Kalamazoo and know people both who survived and were killed in that attack. At least our community responded positively with new passing distance laws and broad community support. ETA: I should mention that I got hit and run on my bicycle by a drunk driver years before the mass murder. My friends tracked down the driver, the police took statements, viewed the damage to the car exactly as I described it, driver matched the description my riding partner and I gave, and the prosecutor still declined to press charges. It wasn't a no-harm-no-foul thing either, I was pretty severely injured. Still pretty sore about that.
king_panic 7y ago
This tension is fundamental. You have two parties who feel entitled to the road, while few parameters exist around how they share the road. Naturally anything a cyclist does that interferes with the driver ends up irritating him/her and vice versa. Protected bike lanes go a long way to solving this problem. We need rules around how we interoperate.

techsupporter 7y ago

> This, to me, signals the general attitude people have towards bicyclists in the US. The average person either doesn't care or, for some misguided reason or another, actively hates bicyclists. I've been yelled at by drivers for no apparent reason so many times I've lost count. My experience as a pedestrian (I don't ride a bike on the street so I can't speak to that experience) mirrors this. More than once, I've been honked or yelled at for being in an actual, marked crosswalk, crossing the street. (Never mind all of the driver complaints about my use of legal, unmarked crosswalks.) On a former commute, I regularly got off the bus at a bus stop immediately adjacent to a signaled crosswalk that several of us used. We regularly got honked at by drivers bringing their cars to a screeching halt as the light changed and, once on a holiday, when it was just me and my kid, a driver yelled "if you weren't so fucking poor you wouldn't have to ride the bus!" > It's really sad, I think it's a symptom of something a lot more sinister happening to the hearts and minds of people in this country Agreed, and I live in a city where ways of getting to work and around town that aren't a single-occupant vehicle are now in the cumulative majority yet the pushback has increased even more. People regularly write letters to the local paper about how they "openly" use the bus and bike lanes for their cars because "[screw] those entitled people." I hold a driving license and, until recently, owned a car that I regularly used. This behavior ought to be unacceptable and more actively enforced against but I can only imagine the uproar if an even light "crackdown" happened.

mywittyname 7y ago
> "if you weren't so fucking poor you wouldn't have to ride the bus!" I honestly think this is a huge factor in violence against cyclists & pedestrians. Drivers think you're automatically beneath them in the societal pecking order if you're walking or biking, so they feel justified or entitled to victimize you. People do similar shit to other people who they perceive to be poor, such as homeless, maids, delivery drivers, etc.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  Yes, it's very interesting. I moved to a city (in the US) where driving a car is actually unnecessary, so I sold mine and ride a bike as my primary transportation. I am so happy to not have to deal with car ownership -- it's improved my life tremendously. Although I haven't been subjected to any abuse about it, more than once I have had people make comments about when I'll be able to buy a car, as if finances are why I don't have one. The funny thing is that my income is in the top 5% of the area, and I have enough liquid cash right now to buy almost any car I want outright. I just don't want one. People make weird assumptions.
  - noir_lord 7y ago
    Same boat, I could go buy a car in cash tomorrow but I don’t have a drivers license. People react with incredulity when I tell them I don’t have a car. I live a 15 minute walk from the center of town and work and the UK has reasonable bus service in most towns so why would I spend thousands on a car and hundreds a month to park a vehicle I never use outside my house. I cycle for fitness and pleasure though and most car drivers are lovely but we do have the odd dickhead as well.
    - paulryanrogers 7y ago
      Do you have children? I've noticed having a family had impacted my cycling lifestyle tremendously.
      - 7y ago

kendallpark 7y ago

It's easier to change infrastructure to be pro-cycling than it is to change the culture. I'll take mindful drivers over protected bike lanes, any day. The only protected lane in my town (Madison) is one that goes against traffic. Drivers here are generally aware and accommodating when it comes to cyclists. I feel safer biking here (snow and all) than any other city I've lived in.

analog31 7y ago
Man, that lane gave me the willies, first time I rode on it. ;-) But I agree about Madison. One other thing I've noticed is that here's also much less of a car culture. For instance it seems that people are outraged if their work commute is more than 10 minutes. And you don't see as many of the giant cars, SUV's, pickup trucks, etc. One thing that may help is that a number of large employers are all concentrated near the center of town: Government offices, the university, and the hospitals. This makes it desirable to live within the city limits, but also to look for alternatives to the relatively expensive and inconvenient parking lots.
- kendallpark 7y ago
  > One other thing I've noticed is that here's also much less of a car culture. I think a big factor is the lack of freeways in downtown Madison (not sure if this was intentional or a byproduct of the isthmus + Capitol Square). A lot of people attribute Vancouver's success with alternative transportation to a 1960's decision against urban freeways. Without the option of a freeway, incentives and cultural attitudes are more aligned toward biking, busing, etc.

aeternus 7y ago

My guess is that the driver had been yelled at by a biker in the past. I've seen bikers chew out drivers, or yell profanities many times in SF. They sometimes/usually have a good reason to do so, but that kind of behavior just breeds contempt and animosity between the two groups.

sgarman 7y ago
I think that's reasonable and sometimes find myself in that group. Instead of yelling what do you think the is the best way to handle a driver intentionally running you off the road?
- rhinoceraptor 7y ago
  Take out their valve cores once they park? :)
- JohnFen 7y ago
  I wouldn't hesitate to note their license plate # and report them to the police. It may not help, but it might -- particularly if more than one person reports the same car over time.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  A well-placed U-lock makes a satisfying dent in a roof or quarter panel.
actuator 7y ago
Yeah, sometimes they have. Once riding around a bike near Powell street in SF in a bike lane with 10 mph limit. A car approached me from behind. Initially it was probably at 40 mph but it slowed down as it came near me. But it was scary as hell as you have inherent assumptions when you are in a bike lane.

lostphilosopher 7y ago

Ok, I'll say it - bicyclists tend to annoy me. Obviously, I don't shout at them, or try to hit them, or make them think I'm trying to hit them. That's nuts. That seems like a problem separate for bike/car relations. I doubt someone who behaves that way in a car gets out of it and suddenly becomes a calm and reasonable person. But here's my assessment of why bikes annoy me. Not argument that they should, just some introspection. * They make me nervous. Cars are easy to see, have lots of momentum to overcome, and generally exist on a predictable well defined plane. Bikes are different. They can enter the car plane from places I don't expect and didn't even realize existed. They can make 90 degree turns on a dime (relative to my sedan) and can stop in inches. They don't generally obey traffic lights, stop signs, one ways, or any of the other rules that lend predictability to car behavior. They don't have brake lights or signals. And in a complex driving environment, they're tiny and often poorly lit. They also have no protection. Slow moving car crashes aka "fender benders" are expensive and annoying, but rarely dangerous. Similar accidents involving a bike can end lives. Having a bike near me makes me worried I'm going to hit it. I don't want to live with that so I give it huge space and pay it lots of attention. If I could drive on roads that didn't have bikes I'd prefer it. * Civic disagreement. The arguments in favor of making roads more bike friendly are generally: more healthy, more space efficient, more environmentally friendly. I agree on healthy and environmentally friendly. Though, it does seem odd when someone tells me biking is super healthy and super dangerous in the same sentence, but I cede the point. Space efficient? Yes and no. It is more space efficient for people whose options are bike vs car to ride a bike, but there's tons of people that doesn't apply to - people who live far away, people who need to haul things, people who have health issues, people who are too young etc. Also, lots of people don't want to bike in heat, rain, snow, etc. Also, not everyone has a place to change and shower when they get to work. The shower issue and the distance issue disproportionately impact people who are less well off. I get that biking can be part of the solution, but man does it get over hyped. * Guilt/jealousy. I really enjoy biking! If I'm in my car and you're on your bike - I'm pretty sure you're having more fun than I am, and that makes me jealous. Then I start asking myself why I'm not biking, and sometimes the answer makes me feel guilty. Neither of those emotions often get followed up with - let's arrange it so I can experience more of this.

mikepurvis 7y ago

burlesona 7y ago

I’m not sure how broadly this generalizes. Having lived in 7 different regions in the US I would say 4 were cycling-friendly and 3 were cycling-hostile.

apeace 7y ago

I would never yell at a bicyclist, and certainly would never hope one got hit. But I have to say, as an NYC pedestrian, I actively hate bicyclists. They don't follow the rules of the road--at all. Red lights? Stop signs? Ignored. Pedestrians crossing in a crosswalk? Probably fine to whiz past them with 6 inches to spare. I almost get hit by fast-moving bikes once or twice a year. A car has never even come close to hitting me in eight years. Not even those crazy taxi drivers. I have no idea what possesses these people to blast through a red light, into a busy intersection, without slowing down or even looking, but they do it! It has always seemed to me that bicyclists see something "different" about their mode of transportation that exempts them from most traffic laws. And the crazy thing is that they keep asking for more bike lanes. (I'm not accusing you of being this way. But I think this may be the reason lots of people have a hatred of bicyclists. I know many people in the city who feel the same way I do.)

karmakaze 7y ago
Part of the problem certainly is impedence mismatch-different flows in a shared path. The solution to this part is infrastructure. We also greatly need better awareness and it goes all ways. When learning to ride a motorcycle I learned how bad a pedestrian I was.
closeparen 7y ago
Bikes and cars have very different situational awareness, mass, agility, stopping distance, etc. It would be very surprising if the optimal rules for both were exactly the same.
rayiner 7y ago
I feel the same way here in DC. Both as a pedestrian and as a driver. (For example, the other day my wife and I were trying to cross a street and nearly got hit by a bicyclist going the wrong way in the lane. Of course, I was looking for cars following the rules and didn’t think to look for a bicycle coming from the other direction.)
hector_vasquez 7y ago
As a former NYC cyclist, I can say that your accusations are patently absurd. First, if cyclists blasted through red lights without looking we would all get hit by cars within a few intersections. Second, of course cars have come close to hitting you. It's New York. That's how they drive there. It is always jarring to hear what I anecdotally believe to be a minority of pedestrians who actually believe that cyclists are in any way, shape, or form more of a threat to their safety than motor vehicles. Luckily for us all, NYC is getting more and more friendly to cycling, though it still does have a long way to go.

t413 7y ago

> and it's why I no longer ride my bike in the city anymore So is your response to just drive a car then? That's a most-poignant tragedy of the commons.

bsder 7y ago

> This, to me, signals the general attitude people have towards bicyclists in the US. Maybe, but if you have ever tried to get around in Cambridge, MA, you would understand that it is a disaster for everybody. Pedestrians walk into intersections when they shouldn't and block traffic, sometimes indefinitely. Bicyclists ignore signs, lights, people, etc. and cut off cars randomly. And cars have to shove their way through the mess or they will never get anywhere. Cambridge traffic is simply dreadful. Go read Neal Stephenson's "Zodiac" for a taste.

jessaustin 7y ago
Why is anyone driving in Cambridge? This reminds me of a relative who insisted on renting a car in Bali. Just... why? Note: I have driven in Cambridge, and will do again, when there is a compelling reason to do so. Commuting during rush hour is not a compelling reason.
- sokoloff 7y ago
  > Why is anyone driving in Cambridge? Mostly because they have somewhere to be on a schedule. I've lived in Cambridge for ~20 years. For about 1/4 of that time, I walked to my office in Kendall about half the time and drove the other half. Bus service was completely impractical and trying to take the subway one stop took vastly longer than walking or driving. The other 3/4 of the time, I had a job outside Cambridge -> driving to/from work everyday -> driving in/across/around parts of Cambridge everyday. Now, with kids in elementary school (start time 8:15 sharp, pickup 2:25 sharp), we drive to/from school 8-10x a week. Before they were in school, to/from daycare (can't dropoff before 8:30; must pickup by 5:30 sharp; can't push a stroller on a bike) and work meant plenty of car trips as well. Before kids, to/from work and then to after-work team sports often meant needing to drive as well. Public transport in Cambridge, except directly red line T stop to T stop, is not for those who are on any kind of schedule. The bus service is a disaster, IMO.

Spooky23 7y ago

I biked to work for several years. I see both sides somewhat. Cyclists are their own worst enemies, as many are a bunch of idiots that flaunt traffic laws, put pedestrians at risk and behave poorly. Engineering practices don’t account for cyclists well. That’s getting better where i live, but more need to be done there as well as educating folks on what to do in difficult car/bike/pedestrian scenarios.

rlue 7y ago

It should be noted that the perpetrator in the murder case you referenced was on methamphetamine, muscle relaxers, and pain medication at the time of the incident. There truly is a lot of hostility for cyclists out there, and I think it would be wiser to cite cases that don't have complicating factors like this, such as: * https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/cyclist-sentenced.html https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/cyclist-sente... * https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/31/why-so-hard-charge-motorists-cycling-deaths https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/31/why-so-hard-... * https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/08/11/video-cyclist-survives-intentional-hit-and-run-on-second-avenue/ https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/08/11/video-cyclist-survive... * https://www.narcity.com/news/this-ontario-driver-has-been-charged-after-intentionally-hitting-a-cyclist-explicit-video https://www.narcity.com/news/this-ontario-driver-has-been-ch... * https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7502828-181/chp-hit-and-run-driver-intentionally-struck https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7502828-181/chp-hit-and-r... * https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/must-reads/video-motorist-deliberately-drove-into-cyclist-in-a-prank-filmed-from-his-car/07/01/ https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/must-reads/video-motorist-... * https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/22/smirking-driver-records-braking-deliberately-make-cyclist-crash-8980222/ https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/22/smirking-driver-records-braki... * https://www.dailybulletin.com/2018/11/03/police-bicyclist-killed-in-intentional-collision-in-claremont-driver-arrested-on-suspicion-of-murder/ https://www.dailybulletin.com/2018/11/03/police-bicyclist-ki... * https://www.ldnews.com/story/news/local/2018/05/16/cyclist-hopes-ride-again-after-being-intentionally-hit-car/596455002/ https://www.ldnews.com/story/news/local/2018/05/16/cyclist-h... * https://ggwash.org/view/34715/driver-assaults-bicyclist-police-ticket-bicyclist https://ggwash.org/view/34715/driver-assaults-bicyclist-poli... * https://cambridge.wickedlocal.com/news/20170505/police-driver-hits-cambridge-cyclist-intentionally-in-road-rage-incident https://cambridge.wickedlocal.com/news/20170505/police-drive...

SauciestGNU 7y ago

I live in Kalamazoo and know people both who survived and were killed in that attack. At least our community responded positively with new passing distance laws and broad community support. ETA: I should mention that I got hit and run on my bicycle by a drunk driver years before the mass murder. My friends tracked down the driver, the police took statements, viewed the damage to the car exactly as I described it, driver matched the description my riding partner and I gave, and the prosecutor still declined to press charges. It wasn't a no-harm-no-foul thing either, I was pretty severely injured. Still pretty sore about that.

king_panic 7y ago

This tension is fundamental. You have two parties who feel entitled to the road, while few parameters exist around how they share the road. Naturally anything a cyclist does that interferes with the driver ends up irritating him/her and vice versa. Protected bike lanes go a long way to solving this problem. We need rules around how we interoperate.