7 ms·

Business networking is overrated (2017)

175 points by ezhil 8y ago

awat 8y ago
This has certainly been my experience. The type of connections that seem to really fast track the acquaintances I've witnessed move quickly through career ladders, certainly weren't made at networking events. They were made at weddings, bar-mitzvahs, and dinners. In other words connections that existed with or without business networking events etc.
tw1010 8y ago
Maybe business networking isn't overrated, but the way you form connections (shallow vs deep) that is the problem.
- scrooched_moose 8y ago
  I think that's really the issue. I've received some big breaks by knowing the correct people, but not a single one of them has been a 2-minute connection from some BS networking event. It's always been a preexisting, unrelated relationship which eventually becomes career relevant. I'm shocked by the number of seniors/recent grads who contact me out of the blue (god knows where they got my info) asking for recommendations or a break. No, I'm not going to stick my neck out by recommending someone I've never met for an open position.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    This. Hi! I'm one of the 100,000 people that happened to graduate from the same school that you did. Can you put in a referral for me? Mind you. I am often happy to respond to a few questions in an email (or even a quick call) from pretty much anyone. Though a good percentage of the time, when I do that I don't get so much as a Gmail form "Thanks."
  - joshklein 8y ago
    On the other hand, when a recent grad or otherwise distant connection-of-a-connection reaches out to ask me to coffee or a 15-minute call to “pick my brain” about my career experiences (a so-called “informational interview”), I almost never turn them down.
    - pthomas551 8y ago
      This is the way to do it. Then make the ask for a referral, interview, etc. at the end. It usually works, I've gotten a good job doing this.
  - pthomas551 8y ago
    I'm not inherently opposed to referring people I don't know, as long as we have some sort of connection. The referral bonus at my company is pretty nice, after all. So what I do is ask for a CV and cover letter; if they're good I can upload all the documents straight into the HR system and save the candidate the trouble. In my experience, only a small minority of the cold outreach people actually respond to my request, and the responses I do get are usually low quality and don't merit a referral.
- jpm_sd 8y ago
  Every job I've had since my first job has been through a personal referral, from people I have worked closely with in the past. Not from people I met at "networking" events.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Networks, personal/professional/everything in-between, are not overrated. Anecdote but every job since my first one out of school came directly through people I had worked with in some capacity or other. However, contrast with "Networking" with a capital-N in the giving out business cards like candy at some business networking cocktail party. It's probably a combination of how deep the connection is as you say and just the general attitude that tends to pervade those sorts of events.
  - Consultant32452 8y ago
    I have the opposite anecdote. I've never known anyone at any job I've ever gotten. FWIW, I get offers at about 80% of places that interview me. Admittedly, my understanding from some economics literature I've read is that your case is far more normal.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      I'm sure it depends. If you have some broadly in-demand skill and it's obvious from your resume that you're competent at it (and, in fact, are), you may flow through the various filters pretty easily. You check the various boxes at a lot of companies and, in some ways, have a much bigger hunting ground. OTOH, post long-term job #1 I was relatively senior and didn't have a background that was particularly appealing to a lot of the cool young companies of the era. But I did have former co-workers at one place that gave me a quick offer. And, since then, it's been pretty specialized roles that came pretty much 100% through ongoing professional relationships.
- petra 8y ago
  Maybe it's more about mutual favors, and not necessary shallow vs deep ? If you helped some remote contact of yours somehow(knowledge, connections, maybe even just lending a hand when he needed), I'm sure he would be much more likely to return the favor.
- nate 8y ago
  Well put. That's what's rubbed me the wrong way with all these networking events. A drink + a little small talk doesn't really deepen anything for me. One thing I've recently started that I've thoroughly been enjoying is throwing a "let's play a game over lunch" networking event. It does a few things differently that I've enjoyed. 1) It's over lunch. it doesn't require an obligation that takes me away from my loved ones in the evening. I'm going to eat lunch anyways, might as well do it with a group of friends or strangers. 2) We don't have to small talk. There's a game involved. There's rules to that help us to talk to each other. It's so much easier to do so then. 3) Playing a game deepens these relationships. I can't even explain it. But it's this artificial conflict that's been creating these stronger bonds with these folks I'm playing a game with. I can't wait to play the next game with them and have our chats afterwards. 4) The game I picked was important. I picked "The Resistance". It's similar to Mafia/Werewolf where you're basically all trying to figure out who's lying to you. So the game isn't what most folks think about when they think a game with cards or board games. It's really just talking and learning how people express themselves. So it really goes deep in examining people and having them examine you. It's a weird feeling to go through that type of process with acquaintances. But every time I've played a "lying game" like Mafia/Resistance with a group of acquaintances or new folks, I'm so much more comfortable talking to them about so many other things. It's been fun. I've been told by some folks it's in their top meetups they've ever done, and it takes ridiculously low effort. Just email some people to show up and play a game. Don't need to shell out for food/drinks/speakers/other garbage. (I'm in Chicago doing this. If anyone here wants to come and play hit me up.)
  - jiveturkey 8y ago
    > 4) The game I picked was important. I picked "The Resistance". It's similar to Mafia/Werewolf where you're basically all trying to figure out who's lying to you. So the game isn't what most folks think about when they think a game with cards or board games. It's really just talking and learning how people express themselves. Sounds a little bit too close to Diplomacy. A game that has famously ruined friendships. The stated goal of Diplomacy is not to figure out who's lying, but that is the actual goal.
- marviel 8y ago
  Do you know of any resources that assist in deepening interpersonal connections? I, and many others, would benefit greatly from them, if so!
inuhj 8y ago
There are entrepreneurs whose primary income is serving as 'glue' through networking. They are constantly tapped to connect companies and bring projects to life. Typically they make themselves available to solve problems for you and make introductions.
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  Is there a business opportunity to figure out how to cut out these expensive middlemen? Some kind of bidding market? TaskRabbit-for-the-enterprise?
  - hnaccount141 8y ago
    That wouldn't really be cutting out the middleman so much as it would be becoming the middleman though.
    - ForHackernews 8y ago
      "Becoming a cheaper/faster/more convenient middleman" describes almost every technology business.
  - jvagner 8y ago
    Doing it yourself. As someone who personally grew up with and knows at least one relatively famous one of these, you're not going to replace him.
    - ForHackernews 8y ago
      Everyone says they're irreplaceable right up until an algorithm takes their job.
  - seem_2211 8y ago
    Absolutely not.
- jedberg 8y ago
overcast 8y ago
The only meaningful connections I've ever made, were made randomly sitting at a bar, dinners, and anywhere else you're forced into sitting next to strangers in a casual(not work related) environment. Seriously, if you want to meet people, eat at the bar.
- onemoresoop 8y ago
  I don't think business networking is about meaningful connections, not in the sense of connecting on a personal level. Having said that, I never excelled at business networking myself for not being able to connect at a deeper level
  - overcast 8y ago
    Meaningful, as in something beyond I'm only trying to extract money from you, not connecting at a level that makes for great sex. There is a middle ground there where two people can be genuine in being mutually beneficial to one another.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      And, for that matter, there are quite a few people who I originally met professionally who I stay in touch with for reasons beyond mutual benefit.
- csomar 8y ago
  I think the fact that you are at a bar, and not hunting is what makes people more open. When you are networking in an event (where everyone is), you have your guards up. You basically think everyone is a shark trying to get to you. When you are relaxed at a bar (alcohol helps), you think people are chilling out; and you tend to believe what the other guy is saying. Here is another one: Airplanes. I have made some very good friends just by sitting next to someone. (and some very interesting stories). Another one which is a win-win: High caliber girls which introduces you to their circles. Usually it's a set of another "good" girls that have boyfriends who are rather established. Another one is being married and meeting other married people through kids activity. I'm speculating here I have never been through that.
motohagiography 8y ago
Using Jeffery Pfeffer's model, power in business and organizations is a function of performance, credentials, and relationships. These are weighted differently in different places. It's important to know how they are weighted in your field of endeavour, because it describes how people will be sorted for success. I would argue that it depends on what you are aiming for, and what your desired outcome is. If there is attrition in your field, figure out why people lose. Is it incompetence, a terminal lack of guanxi, or did they get layered by someone from the right school?
- module0000 8y ago
  You made me look up 'guanxi'. (from ddg) guanxi: Guanxi describes the rudimentary dynamic in personalized social networks of influence and is a central idea in Chinese society.
- id_rsa 8y ago
  I like the idea of power as a function of performance, credentials, and relationships. From your experience in the tech industry, how would you prioritize these 3 dimensions?
  - motohagiography 8y ago
    Different types of orgs are defined by how they are weighted. Security startups, pure performance and relationships, with credentials a distant third. Historically anyway, it's changing. Since we're talking power, not rewards, relationships and credentials appear to trump raw performance at some FAANGs as their business models professionalize. Impression is venture funding goes to whoever fits the profile, so ivy credentials with relationships have the advantage over performance. Different stages weight accordingly. The best businesses require the least competence to operate and maintain, so maturity converges on incompetent, nepotistic snake pits. :)
jedberg 8y ago
Every full time job I've ever had, even the first one, came from networking and connections. Of course there is a balance to strike, and you can't just go to a ton of events and hope that it works out. But going to the right events that lets you make a deep connection with one or two people can be very useful.
cm2012 8y ago
I'm a consultant with a pretty good book of clients now. I could never have gotten started without a network of people I met at business/networking events outside of work. I've also never gotten a client through a personal or non-work connection. I don't think my social or family network is ritzy enough for that to work.
- mancerayder 8y ago
  I'm a consultant, too, but I'm new to it and for the past several years relied on luck and recruiters/LinkedIn. Can I ask what types of events? Meetups and tech events? Is that possible as a DevOps engineer, which is very much easy to find via recruiters anyway?
griffinkelly 8y ago
Its all about knowing the right people and being intelligent. To say its all one or the other is naive. I will say a good majority of networking events are the 'wrong' people. They're all out looking to network and you don't get anything aside from a few business cards of people who can't help you, or ultimately don't want to; they're just looking for you to help them. Every break I've gotten in life has come from knowing the right person, particularly through my university alumni network. I do a significant amount of business in Japan, and the Japanese perceive America to be all about networking. The reason being, in Japan most folks stay at the same company their entire life, there is no need to really network.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  > The reason being, in Japan most folks stay at the same company their entire life, there is no need to really network. Don’t you still need to network within the company, network to find customers, network to find mentors, and so on?
  - afiler 8y ago
    I think that's called interacting with people over the normal course of business, and isn't something that's thought of as requiring specific targeted effort.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      Correctly or not, the term "networking" has come to carry a connotation of attending "networking events" and passing out business cards with great abandon. I meet and keep in touch with tons of people at conferences and otherwise in the course of my daily activities but I don't really think of that as Networking.
Allower 8y ago
> Make an intriguing film, build a useful product. Ahh yes of course, that was further down on my list, i should move it to the top.. Competency matters, the problem is knowing that you are competent. I'm really good a recognizing that everyone else is incompetent, I have no idea when I'm being sufficiently competent.
tluyben2 8y ago
It might be overrated but when I read the crazy whiteboard interviewing, the pains people go through to get money here on HN, I would say it is pretty important. I never had to do an interview in my life (25+ years as a professional), never had to really look for projects or investors. Not because of my parents but because I like to talk and network and connect people. When I need something I know where to ask. Sure maybe it is not required, but it sure makes life a lot easier IMHO.
- ghaff 8y ago
  Yeah. I've had interviews and I won't say they were formalities. But pretty much every one of those interviews (post first job out of school) were conversations with people I knew reasonably well.
- seem_2211 8y ago
  +1. How much of the angst on HN on the tech discriminates on age (which I fully agree with) is partly because people have locked themselves in a cubicle for ten years?
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    Or worked remote and let the network whither.
    - TeMPOraL 8y ago
      That's my #1 fear now. Life circumstances made me leave the big city I lived in previously, which is also a regional business/tech hub. While I was never doing explicit networking, I got pretty high mileage out of casual encounters and common projects I've done while hanging around a bunch of social and tech communities. Now, I feel totally disconnected, and sans of eventually moving back to some large city, I have no idea how to solve it. "Networking on-line" doesn't seem to be a thing (or maybe I'm not trying hard enough). (I'm happy with my remote job. Most useful contacts and rewarding relationships I had came from off-job work. It's communities that I miss.)
BeetleB 8y ago
I think the author has little idea on what networking is. The first rule of networking: If you're clearly doing it to further a career, you will fail. A lot of people criticize it, but "Never Eat Alone" is worth a read.
seem_2211 8y ago
This article makes very little sense. It disparages "networking", and then goes on to give all of these examples of successful networking. Successful networking isn't about trying to get everyones details, or trying to pump your brand at every opportunity possible - rather it's about working out where you can add value to others. Silicon Valley is built on networking - the referral paths that lead to talent, capital, opportunities - it's all invite only. That's by design. Platforms won't solve this. I'm in recruiting, where we're supposedly always about to be disrupted. But the platforms don't solve the two big recruitment problems - 1: you don't need more candidates, you just need a few very good ones and 2: people who have good opportunities don't broadly see the value in setting themselves up on platforms to "just look". But a lot of unqualified tyre kickers do.
- avinium 8y ago
  It's not that "networking" as a concept is useless - building solid relationships helps you spread the word when you need talent, capital and opportunities, or anything really. I think the point is that "shallow networking" is useless. Simply because I have your business card (or we're connected on LinkedIn), does not mean that I am in your "network", or vice versa. I think I have quite an extensive "network" (people with whom I meet regularly and who are willing to help with introductions/events/etc). That has taken a number of years to grow, and most of those relationships started because I helped them out with something, with no expectation of return. In other words, I actually was in a position to help, and I actually delivered. There's a lot of compounding/snowballing too - every person you help usually introduces you to two or three others over the course of the relationship. It's not even a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" - I'm genuinely interested in helping out anyone I can.
yawz 8y ago
Give First! <- This is business networking done right.
CM30 8y ago
Seems to be less 'networking is overrated' and more 'networking events are overrated/don't work'. Which makes sense. Those events tend to be about 99.99% desperate business people try to sell you something, and don't really attract the attention of anyone they'd need to attract nor the level of genuine closeness you'd need anyway. It's like the offline equivalents of those 'promotion forums' and subreddits you see online; absolutely depressing as hell because no one cares about anything other than selling themselves and no one in their actual market is around to take them up on the offer. In the same way you can't create the next Facebook by solely marketing to people who want to create the next Facebook, you can't make useful connections from events where everyone has the same self centred goals.
- robertAngst 8y ago
  Or niche. Yeah there were a few pyramid schemes and coffee places at ours, but there were a few people looking to problem solve. But I dont think anyone was successful. I'm looking for a experienced business mentor, lawyer, or co-engineer. None to be found.
gnicholas 8y ago
> Spanx took off when Oprah Winfrey chose it as one of her favorite things of the year — but not because she was stalked by the company’s founder, Sara Blakely. For two and a half years, Ms. Blakely sold fax machines by day so that she could build her prototype of footless pantyhose by night. She sent one from the first batch to Ms. Winfrey. So the take-home message is don't network, just physically spam celebrities with your product. Got it.
exolymph 8y ago
"Networking" in the LinkedIn sense is overrated; having lots of friendly acquaintances and friends who respect you is correctly rated highly. It's extremely useful (and also fun, at least if you enjoy people).
mcnichol 8y ago
This article feels like an opinion piece. I say feels like because there were a few studies referenced light heartedly which had me hoping we'd see more. If this article could gain that higher source of truth I'd argue it's a heck of a bombshell to the conversation...otherwise my experience and many others in comments below seem to differ.
bitL 8y ago
On my very first interview at Google long time ago (when they still did crazy puzzles and combinatorics) I solved two tough problems nobody solved before (interviewers told me). I didn't get in. Three years later another recruiter told me they almost hired me (borderline decision), but nobody knew me, so tough luck lol.
thebladerunner 8y ago
Duh!
thebladerunner 8y ago
How about making friends instead?
jondubois 8y ago
>> Accomplishing great things helps you develop a network. The author has experience on the networking side of the fence and it's interesting to hear their point of view. As someone who has experience on the value creation side of the fence (I created a popular open source project), as much as I wish the previous statement were true, it's not. The problem is that wealthy investors don't know the difference between apparent value and real value. It's just too complex for them to understand and they just don't have the time. Also, investors expect talent to come to them not the other way round. Another factor is that things that only appear valuable tend deliver faster exits so they may be optimizing for smooth-talkers with a sleek pitch deck rather than long term value creation. I've worked in many companies where the manager doesn't know the difference between a good engineer and a bad one. It's extremely frustrating. You would think that these kinds of companies would go bankrupt eventually but no; they have a monopoly over their niche/sector so engineering quality does not matter at all. They can hire 100 times more people than they need and produce horrible complex code which requires constant maintenance and it will only represent a tiny dent in their budget. If most engineering managers don't know what a good software engineer is, how can a VC or investor know? Just because they worked at Google and can solve the Tower of Hanoi puzzle using recursion does not make them a good engineer
lurcio 8y ago
You got to get along to get along

175 points by ezhil 8y ago

awat 8y ago

This has certainly been my experience. The type of connections that seem to really fast track the acquaintances I've witnessed move quickly through career ladders, certainly weren't made at networking events. They were made at weddings, bar-mitzvahs, and dinners. In other words connections that existed with or without business networking events etc.

tw1010 8y ago

Maybe business networking isn't overrated, but the way you form connections (shallow vs deep) that is the problem.

scrooched_moose 8y ago
I think that's really the issue. I've received some big breaks by knowing the correct people, but not a single one of them has been a 2-minute connection from some BS networking event. It's always been a preexisting, unrelated relationship which eventually becomes career relevant. I'm shocked by the number of seniors/recent grads who contact me out of the blue (god knows where they got my info) asking for recommendations or a break. No, I'm not going to stick my neck out by recommending someone I've never met for an open position.
- ghaff 8y ago
  This. Hi! I'm one of the 100,000 people that happened to graduate from the same school that you did. Can you put in a referral for me? Mind you. I am often happy to respond to a few questions in an email (or even a quick call) from pretty much anyone. Though a good percentage of the time, when I do that I don't get so much as a Gmail form "Thanks."
- joshklein 8y ago
  On the other hand, when a recent grad or otherwise distant connection-of-a-connection reaches out to ask me to coffee or a 15-minute call to “pick my brain” about my career experiences (a so-called “informational interview”), I almost never turn them down.
  - pthomas551 8y ago
    This is the way to do it. Then make the ask for a referral, interview, etc. at the end. It usually works, I've gotten a good job doing this.
- pthomas551 8y ago
  I'm not inherently opposed to referring people I don't know, as long as we have some sort of connection. The referral bonus at my company is pretty nice, after all. So what I do is ask for a CV and cover letter; if they're good I can upload all the documents straight into the HR system and save the candidate the trouble. In my experience, only a small minority of the cold outreach people actually respond to my request, and the responses I do get are usually low quality and don't merit a referral.
jpm_sd 8y ago
Every job I've had since my first job has been through a personal referral, from people I have worked closely with in the past. Not from people I met at "networking" events.
ghaff 8y ago
Networks, personal/professional/everything in-between, are not overrated. Anecdote but every job since my first one out of school came directly through people I had worked with in some capacity or other. However, contrast with "Networking" with a capital-N in the giving out business cards like candy at some business networking cocktail party. It's probably a combination of how deep the connection is as you say and just the general attitude that tends to pervade those sorts of events.
- Consultant32452 8y ago
  I have the opposite anecdote. I've never known anyone at any job I've ever gotten. FWIW, I get offers at about 80% of places that interview me. Admittedly, my understanding from some economics literature I've read is that your case is far more normal.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    I'm sure it depends. If you have some broadly in-demand skill and it's obvious from your resume that you're competent at it (and, in fact, are), you may flow through the various filters pretty easily. You check the various boxes at a lot of companies and, in some ways, have a much bigger hunting ground. OTOH, post long-term job #1 I was relatively senior and didn't have a background that was particularly appealing to a lot of the cool young companies of the era. But I did have former co-workers at one place that gave me a quick offer. And, since then, it's been pretty specialized roles that came pretty much 100% through ongoing professional relationships.
petra 8y ago
Maybe it's more about mutual favors, and not necessary shallow vs deep ? If you helped some remote contact of yours somehow(knowledge, connections, maybe even just lending a hand when he needed), I'm sure he would be much more likely to return the favor.
nate 8y ago
Well put. That's what's rubbed me the wrong way with all these networking events. A drink + a little small talk doesn't really deepen anything for me. One thing I've recently started that I've thoroughly been enjoying is throwing a "let's play a game over lunch" networking event. It does a few things differently that I've enjoyed. 1) It's over lunch. it doesn't require an obligation that takes me away from my loved ones in the evening. I'm going to eat lunch anyways, might as well do it with a group of friends or strangers. 2) We don't have to small talk. There's a game involved. There's rules to that help us to talk to each other. It's so much easier to do so then. 3) Playing a game deepens these relationships. I can't even explain it. But it's this artificial conflict that's been creating these stronger bonds with these folks I'm playing a game with. I can't wait to play the next game with them and have our chats afterwards. 4) The game I picked was important. I picked "The Resistance". It's similar to Mafia/Werewolf where you're basically all trying to figure out who's lying to you. So the game isn't what most folks think about when they think a game with cards or board games. It's really just talking and learning how people express themselves. So it really goes deep in examining people and having them examine you. It's a weird feeling to go through that type of process with acquaintances. But every time I've played a "lying game" like Mafia/Resistance with a group of acquaintances or new folks, I'm so much more comfortable talking to them about so many other things. It's been fun. I've been told by some folks it's in their top meetups they've ever done, and it takes ridiculously low effort. Just email some people to show up and play a game. Don't need to shell out for food/drinks/speakers/other garbage. (I'm in Chicago doing this. If anyone here wants to come and play hit me up.)
- jiveturkey 8y ago
  > 4) The game I picked was important. I picked "The Resistance". It's similar to Mafia/Werewolf where you're basically all trying to figure out who's lying to you. So the game isn't what most folks think about when they think a game with cards or board games. It's really just talking and learning how people express themselves. Sounds a little bit too close to Diplomacy. A game that has famously ruined friendships. The stated goal of Diplomacy is not to figure out who's lying, but that is the actual goal.
marviel 8y ago
Do you know of any resources that assist in deepening interpersonal connections? I, and many others, would benefit greatly from them, if so!

inuhj 8y ago

There are entrepreneurs whose primary income is serving as 'glue' through networking. They are constantly tapped to connect companies and bring projects to life. Typically they make themselves available to solve problems for you and make introductions.

ForHackernews 8y ago
Is there a business opportunity to figure out how to cut out these expensive middlemen? Some kind of bidding market? TaskRabbit-for-the-enterprise?
- hnaccount141 8y ago
  That wouldn't really be cutting out the middleman so much as it would be becoming the middleman though.
  - ForHackernews 8y ago
    "Becoming a cheaper/faster/more convenient middleman" describes almost every technology business.
- jvagner 8y ago
  Doing it yourself. As someone who personally grew up with and knows at least one relatively famous one of these, you're not going to replace him.
  - ForHackernews 8y ago
    Everyone says they're irreplaceable right up until an algorithm takes their job.
- seem_2211 8y ago
  Absolutely not.
jedberg 8y ago

overcast 8y ago

The only meaningful connections I've ever made, were made randomly sitting at a bar, dinners, and anywhere else you're forced into sitting next to strangers in a casual(not work related) environment. Seriously, if you want to meet people, eat at the bar.

onemoresoop 8y ago
I don't think business networking is about meaningful connections, not in the sense of connecting on a personal level. Having said that, I never excelled at business networking myself for not being able to connect at a deeper level
- overcast 8y ago
  Meaningful, as in something beyond I'm only trying to extract money from you, not connecting at a level that makes for great sex. There is a middle ground there where two people can be genuine in being mutually beneficial to one another.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    And, for that matter, there are quite a few people who I originally met professionally who I stay in touch with for reasons beyond mutual benefit.
csomar 8y ago
I think the fact that you are at a bar, and not hunting is what makes people more open. When you are networking in an event (where everyone is), you have your guards up. You basically think everyone is a shark trying to get to you. When you are relaxed at a bar (alcohol helps), you think people are chilling out; and you tend to believe what the other guy is saying. Here is another one: Airplanes. I have made some very good friends just by sitting next to someone. (and some very interesting stories). Another one which is a win-win: High caliber girls which introduces you to their circles. Usually it's a set of another "good" girls that have boyfriends who are rather established. Another one is being married and meeting other married people through kids activity. I'm speculating here I have never been through that.

motohagiography 8y ago

Using Jeffery Pfeffer's model, power in business and organizations is a function of performance, credentials, and relationships. These are weighted differently in different places. It's important to know how they are weighted in your field of endeavour, because it describes how people will be sorted for success. I would argue that it depends on what you are aiming for, and what your desired outcome is. If there is attrition in your field, figure out why people lose. Is it incompetence, a terminal lack of guanxi, or did they get layered by someone from the right school?

module0000 8y ago
You made me look up 'guanxi'. (from ddg) guanxi: Guanxi describes the rudimentary dynamic in personalized social networks of influence and is a central idea in Chinese society.
id_rsa 8y ago
I like the idea of power as a function of performance, credentials, and relationships. From your experience in the tech industry, how would you prioritize these 3 dimensions?
- motohagiography 8y ago
  Different types of orgs are defined by how they are weighted. Security startups, pure performance and relationships, with credentials a distant third. Historically anyway, it's changing. Since we're talking power, not rewards, relationships and credentials appear to trump raw performance at some FAANGs as their business models professionalize. Impression is venture funding goes to whoever fits the profile, so ivy credentials with relationships have the advantage over performance. Different stages weight accordingly. The best businesses require the least competence to operate and maintain, so maturity converges on incompetent, nepotistic snake pits. :)

jedberg 8y ago

Every full time job I've ever had, even the first one, came from networking and connections. Of course there is a balance to strike, and you can't just go to a ton of events and hope that it works out. But going to the right events that lets you make a deep connection with one or two people can be very useful.

cm2012 8y ago

I'm a consultant with a pretty good book of clients now. I could never have gotten started without a network of people I met at business/networking events outside of work. I've also never gotten a client through a personal or non-work connection. I don't think my social or family network is ritzy enough for that to work.

mancerayder 8y ago
I'm a consultant, too, but I'm new to it and for the past several years relied on luck and recruiters/LinkedIn. Can I ask what types of events? Meetups and tech events? Is that possible as a DevOps engineer, which is very much easy to find via recruiters anyway?

griffinkelly 8y ago

Its all about knowing the right people and being intelligent. To say its all one or the other is naive. I will say a good majority of networking events are the 'wrong' people. They're all out looking to network and you don't get anything aside from a few business cards of people who can't help you, or ultimately don't want to; they're just looking for you to help them. Every break I've gotten in life has come from knowing the right person, particularly through my university alumni network. I do a significant amount of business in Japan, and the Japanese perceive America to be all about networking. The reason being, in Japan most folks stay at the same company their entire life, there is no need to really network.

chrisseaton 8y ago
> The reason being, in Japan most folks stay at the same company their entire life, there is no need to really network. Don’t you still need to network within the company, network to find customers, network to find mentors, and so on?
- afiler 8y ago
  I think that's called interacting with people over the normal course of business, and isn't something that's thought of as requiring specific targeted effort.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Correctly or not, the term "networking" has come to carry a connotation of attending "networking events" and passing out business cards with great abandon. I meet and keep in touch with tons of people at conferences and otherwise in the course of my daily activities but I don't really think of that as Networking.

Allower 8y ago

> Make an intriguing film, build a useful product. Ahh yes of course, that was further down on my list, i should move it to the top.. Competency matters, the problem is knowing that you are competent. I'm really good a recognizing that everyone else is incompetent, I have no idea when I'm being sufficiently competent.

tluyben2 8y ago

It might be overrated but when I read the crazy whiteboard interviewing, the pains people go through to get money here on HN, I would say it is pretty important. I never had to do an interview in my life (25+ years as a professional), never had to really look for projects or investors. Not because of my parents but because I like to talk and network and connect people. When I need something I know where to ask. Sure maybe it is not required, but it sure makes life a lot easier IMHO.

ghaff 8y ago
Yeah. I've had interviews and I won't say they were formalities. But pretty much every one of those interviews (post first job out of school) were conversations with people I knew reasonably well.
seem_2211 8y ago
+1. How much of the angst on HN on the tech discriminates on age (which I fully agree with) is partly because people have locked themselves in a cubicle for ten years?
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  Or worked remote and let the network whither.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    That's my #1 fear now. Life circumstances made me leave the big city I lived in previously, which is also a regional business/tech hub. While I was never doing explicit networking, I got pretty high mileage out of casual encounters and common projects I've done while hanging around a bunch of social and tech communities. Now, I feel totally disconnected, and sans of eventually moving back to some large city, I have no idea how to solve it. "Networking on-line" doesn't seem to be a thing (or maybe I'm not trying hard enough). (I'm happy with my remote job. Most useful contacts and rewarding relationships I had came from off-job work. It's communities that I miss.)

BeetleB 8y ago

I think the author has little idea on what networking is. The first rule of networking: If you're clearly doing it to further a career, you will fail. A lot of people criticize it, but "Never Eat Alone" is worth a read.

seem_2211 8y ago

This article makes very little sense. It disparages "networking", and then goes on to give all of these examples of successful networking. Successful networking isn't about trying to get everyones details, or trying to pump your brand at every opportunity possible - rather it's about working out where you can add value to others. Silicon Valley is built on networking - the referral paths that lead to talent, capital, opportunities - it's all invite only. That's by design. Platforms won't solve this. I'm in recruiting, where we're supposedly always about to be disrupted. But the platforms don't solve the two big recruitment problems - 1: you don't need more candidates, you just need a few very good ones and 2: people who have good opportunities don't broadly see the value in setting themselves up on platforms to "just look". But a lot of unqualified tyre kickers do.

avinium 8y ago
It's not that "networking" as a concept is useless - building solid relationships helps you spread the word when you need talent, capital and opportunities, or anything really. I think the point is that "shallow networking" is useless. Simply because I have your business card (or we're connected on LinkedIn), does not mean that I am in your "network", or vice versa. I think I have quite an extensive "network" (people with whom I meet regularly and who are willing to help with introductions/events/etc). That has taken a number of years to grow, and most of those relationships started because I helped them out with something, with no expectation of return. In other words, I actually was in a position to help, and I actually delivered. There's a lot of compounding/snowballing too - every person you help usually introduces you to two or three others over the course of the relationship. It's not even a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" - I'm genuinely interested in helping out anyone I can.

yawz 8y ago

Give First! <- This is business networking done right.

CM30 8y ago

Seems to be less 'networking is overrated' and more 'networking events are overrated/don't work'. Which makes sense. Those events tend to be about 99.99% desperate business people try to sell you something, and don't really attract the attention of anyone they'd need to attract nor the level of genuine closeness you'd need anyway. It's like the offline equivalents of those 'promotion forums' and subreddits you see online; absolutely depressing as hell because no one cares about anything other than selling themselves and no one in their actual market is around to take them up on the offer. In the same way you can't create the next Facebook by solely marketing to people who want to create the next Facebook, you can't make useful connections from events where everyone has the same self centred goals.

robertAngst 8y ago
Or niche. Yeah there were a few pyramid schemes and coffee places at ours, but there were a few people looking to problem solve. But I dont think anyone was successful. I'm looking for a experienced business mentor, lawyer, or co-engineer. None to be found.

gnicholas 8y ago

> Spanx took off when Oprah Winfrey chose it as one of her favorite things of the year — but not because she was stalked by the company’s founder, Sara Blakely. For two and a half years, Ms. Blakely sold fax machines by day so that she could build her prototype of footless pantyhose by night. She sent one from the first batch to Ms. Winfrey. So the take-home message is don't network, just physically spam celebrities with your product. Got it.

exolymph 8y ago

"Networking" in the LinkedIn sense is overrated; having lots of friendly acquaintances and friends who respect you is correctly rated highly. It's extremely useful (and also fun, at least if you enjoy people).

mcnichol 8y ago

This article feels like an opinion piece. I say feels like because there were a few studies referenced light heartedly which had me hoping we'd see more. If this article could gain that higher source of truth I'd argue it's a heck of a bombshell to the conversation...otherwise my experience and many others in comments below seem to differ.

bitL 8y ago

On my very first interview at Google long time ago (when they still did crazy puzzles and combinatorics) I solved two tough problems nobody solved before (interviewers told me). I didn't get in. Three years later another recruiter told me they almost hired me (borderline decision), but nobody knew me, so tough luck lol.

thebladerunner 8y ago

Duh!

thebladerunner 8y ago

How about making friends instead?

jondubois 8y ago

>> Accomplishing great things helps you develop a network. The author has experience on the networking side of the fence and it's interesting to hear their point of view. As someone who has experience on the value creation side of the fence (I created a popular open source project), as much as I wish the previous statement were true, it's not. The problem is that wealthy investors don't know the difference between apparent value and real value. It's just too complex for them to understand and they just don't have the time. Also, investors expect talent to come to them not the other way round. Another factor is that things that only appear valuable tend deliver faster exits so they may be optimizing for smooth-talkers with a sleek pitch deck rather than long term value creation. I've worked in many companies where the manager doesn't know the difference between a good engineer and a bad one. It's extremely frustrating. You would think that these kinds of companies would go bankrupt eventually but no; they have a monopoly over their niche/sector so engineering quality does not matter at all. They can hire 100 times more people than they need and produce horrible complex code which requires constant maintenance and it will only represent a tiny dent in their budget. If most engineering managers don't know what a good software engineer is, how can a VC or investor know? Just because they worked at Google and can solve the Tower of Hanoi puzzle using recursion does not make them a good engineer

lurcio 8y ago

You got to get along to get along