5 ms·

Unfortunately this happens more often than the public are aware of. I'm familiar with a handful of PhD holders who didn't even attend the University that grante

by KoZeN 16y ago

Unfortunately this happens more often than the public are aware of. I'm familiar with a handful of PhD holders who didn't even attend the University that granted it. It's a shame that these qualifications can be purchased as it completely obliterates the integrity of the title.

Nitramp 16y ago
While the cases you cite are probably different, not all countries require people to actually attend a University where they get their Doctorate. E.g. here in Germany, you are required to write a Doctor's thesis (that needs to be accepted by a Professor) and pass an oral exam, but there are usually no required courses. I think historically it was not uncommon for people to just submit a thesis, but nowadays nearly everyone getting a PhD will do so while being at the University and in close collaboration with his Doctoral advisor.
- KoZeN 16y ago
  Fair point, the people I am referencing blatantly purchased their PhD without ever sitting a single exam or writing a single paper.
  - michael_dorfman 16y ago
    From a reputable, accredited university? I think that's the slippery slope that the Prof in question is worried about. Right now, a PhD from the University of Manitoba should hold more value than a purchased one from a diploma mill. If enough of the requirements are waived, this may no longer be the case.
    - dhimes 16y ago
      Unless he is referring to "honorary" doctorates, which are an entirely different conversation. These are sometimes given for reasons that may make it look like they were "purchased."
- tjr 16y ago
  E.g. here in Germany, you are required to write a Doctor's thesis (that needs to be accepted by a Professor) and pass an oral exam, but there are usually no required courses. Any specific examples of this? (In Germany or elsewhere?)
  - Nitramp 16y ago
    Well, you can look at the individual University's pages. Having courses in a PhD, or having something like a "PhD program" in general, is still very rare. The common model is to take a job as an assistant researcher with the chair of your Professor, work on your PhD thesis and papers 50% of the time, and be treated like cheap slave labour by your professor the other 95% (sic!) of the time.
  - mwerty 16y ago
    Albert Einstein
pbiggar 16y ago
Could we have more detail? Perhaps the name of the University, or at least the country in which it happened?
- KoZeN 16y ago
  Perhaps the name of the University Not likely. To be fair, if I was to name and shame I may as well pack my bags and leave the country. All I'll say is that these are red-brick Uni's in the UK. A close friend highlighted the issue through a discovery he made whilst developing plagarism detection software for a private organisation that worked closely with a certain collective of Universities, I recognised one of the names of the people he mentioned and I know for a fact, due to my own personal connection with the individual that she never attended or would even come close to qualifying for the PhD she claims to have been awarded. Another Swedish gentleman who I became very good friends with during my travels in NZ eventually disclosed how he achieved his PhD through certain 'investments' and has since used said qualification to leverage his residency application to stay in NZ permanently.
  - pbiggar 16y ago
    > Not likely. To be fair, if I was to name and shame I may as well pack my bags and leave the country. Of course, perfectly understandable. > All I'll say is that these are red-brick Uni's in the UK. Which are the 'redbrick' ones? Are they the ones which used to be polytechnics, or Oxbridge, or the ones in between like Bath and Glasgow?
    - rglovejoy 16y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_brick_university http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_brick_university
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
  - Dylan16807 16y ago
pbhjpbhj 16y ago
>a handful of PhD holders who didn't even attend the University that granted it. It's a shame that these qualifications can be purchased Like this you mean, http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/univ/degrees/honorary/ http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/univ/degrees/honorary/ ?
- siddhant 16y ago
  These aren't purchased. And being awarded one of these is not a shame. I think the point that he made is completely different.
  - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
    Original comment for this sub-thread >"I'm familiar with a handful of PhD holders who didn't even attend the University that granted it." "Like this?" I asked. The parent comment was vague and my enquiry was, in part, to ascertain whether the commenter was referring to those who get degrees by being rich and|or famous or whether he was referring to direct purchase. Now he has expanded on his point my question is largely moot but the comment stands to point out that there is another class of individuals given degrees that didn't earn them (by fulfilling _academic_ requirements). I found it annoying at graduation that some people being given degrees by my Uni simply because those people were doing their [highly paid] job (being actors, sportsmen, politicians, company directors, etc.).
    - msbarnett 16y ago
      A bit pointless, perhaps, but overall unrelated to the value of your degree, since "honorary" degrees in almost all cases explicitly state that they confer none of the meaning or credentials of an equivalent real degree. It's just cheap PR for the University.
      - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
        If the degree certificate is worth anything (debatable) then it should be reserved for those who gain it. Either it's worth nothing, in which case why give it, or it's worth something and should be reserved for those who have fulfilled the academic requirements. Instead of handing out degree certs they should work out some other system to brown-nose "celebrities".
matwood 16y ago
It looks like you're from the UK. Do the universities there have different policies than other countries? While in grad school here in the US one of my professors was constantly fighting with plagiarism from a PhD student at a school in the UK. It seemed nothing he did would get them to take action even though the student was clearly taking full rips from my professors published papers.

by KoZeN 16y ago

Nitramp 16y ago

While the cases you cite are probably different, not all countries require people to actually attend a University where they get their Doctorate. E.g. here in Germany, you are required to write a Doctor's thesis (that needs to be accepted by a Professor) and pass an oral exam, but there are usually no required courses. I think historically it was not uncommon for people to just submit a thesis, but nowadays nearly everyone getting a PhD will do so while being at the University and in close collaboration with his Doctoral advisor.

KoZeN 16y ago
Fair point, the people I am referencing blatantly purchased their PhD without ever sitting a single exam or writing a single paper.
- michael_dorfman 16y ago
  From a reputable, accredited university? I think that's the slippery slope that the Prof in question is worried about. Right now, a PhD from the University of Manitoba should hold more value than a purchased one from a diploma mill. If enough of the requirements are waived, this may no longer be the case.
  - dhimes 16y ago
    Unless he is referring to "honorary" doctorates, which are an entirely different conversation. These are sometimes given for reasons that may make it look like they were "purchased."
tjr 16y ago
E.g. here in Germany, you are required to write a Doctor's thesis (that needs to be accepted by a Professor) and pass an oral exam, but there are usually no required courses. Any specific examples of this? (In Germany or elsewhere?)
- Nitramp 16y ago
  Well, you can look at the individual University's pages. Having courses in a PhD, or having something like a "PhD program" in general, is still very rare. The common model is to take a job as an assistant researcher with the chair of your Professor, work on your PhD thesis and papers 50% of the time, and be treated like cheap slave labour by your professor the other 95% (sic!) of the time.
- mwerty 16y ago
  Albert Einstein

pbiggar 16y ago

Could we have more detail? Perhaps the name of the University, or at least the country in which it happened?

KoZeN 16y ago
Perhaps the name of the University Not likely. To be fair, if I was to name and shame I may as well pack my bags and leave the country. All I'll say is that these are red-brick Uni's in the UK. A close friend highlighted the issue through a discovery he made whilst developing plagarism detection software for a private organisation that worked closely with a certain collective of Universities, I recognised one of the names of the people he mentioned and I know for a fact, due to my own personal connection with the individual that she never attended or would even come close to qualifying for the PhD she claims to have been awarded. Another Swedish gentleman who I became very good friends with during my travels in NZ eventually disclosed how he achieved his PhD through certain 'investments' and has since used said qualification to leverage his residency application to stay in NZ permanently.
- pbiggar 16y ago
  > Not likely. To be fair, if I was to name and shame I may as well pack my bags and leave the country. Of course, perfectly understandable. > All I'll say is that these are red-brick Uni's in the UK. Which are the 'redbrick' ones? Are they the ones which used to be polytechnics, or Oxbridge, or the ones in between like Bath and Glasgow?
  - rglovejoy 16y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_brick_university http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_brick_university
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
- Dylan16807 16y ago

pbhjpbhj 16y ago

>a handful of PhD holders who didn't even attend the University that granted it. It's a shame that these qualifications can be purchased Like this you mean, http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/univ/degrees/honorary/ http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/univ/degrees/honorary/ ?

siddhant 16y ago
These aren't purchased. And being awarded one of these is not a shame. I think the point that he made is completely different.
- pbhjpbhj 16y ago
  Original comment for this sub-thread >"I'm familiar with a handful of PhD holders who didn't even attend the University that granted it." "Like this?" I asked. The parent comment was vague and my enquiry was, in part, to ascertain whether the commenter was referring to those who get degrees by being rich and|or famous or whether he was referring to direct purchase. Now he has expanded on his point my question is largely moot but the comment stands to point out that there is another class of individuals given degrees that didn't earn them (by fulfilling _academic_ requirements). I found it annoying at graduation that some people being given degrees by my Uni simply because those people were doing their [highly paid] job (being actors, sportsmen, politicians, company directors, etc.).
  - msbarnett 16y ago
    A bit pointless, perhaps, but overall unrelated to the value of your degree, since "honorary" degrees in almost all cases explicitly state that they confer none of the meaning or credentials of an equivalent real degree. It's just cheap PR for the University.
    - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
      If the degree certificate is worth anything (debatable) then it should be reserved for those who gain it. Either it's worth nothing, in which case why give it, or it's worth something and should be reserved for those who have fulfilled the academic requirements. Instead of handing out degree certs they should work out some other system to brown-nose "celebrities".

matwood 16y ago

It looks like you're from the UK. Do the universities there have different policies than other countries? While in grad school here in the US one of my professors was constantly fighting with plagiarism from a PhD student at a school in the UK. It seemed nothing he did would get them to take action even though the student was clearly taking full rips from my professors published papers.