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The Unified Theory of Ram Dass

97 points by adrice727 8y ago

zafka 8y ago
It makes me happy to see this article here. I have always been impressed with the way Ram Dass has traveled through life.
- everdev 8y ago
  I agree that the message is beautiful. I do have reservations however about gurus, in that the ones I'm aware of tend to live in isolated places where they are worshiped. I feel like it's easy to love and support others when you have peace, quiet, love and support in abundance around you. I'd like to see how these individuals operate in higher stress situations and if they've really perfected the art of love or if it's more a product of their circumstances.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    Agreed. A lot of famous gurus are just very charismatic people that live a very nice life and don't really have to deal with the drudgeries of the life most regular people live. When you look under the cover a lot of them are abusive and really not nice people. I think there are only very few people that are really spiritually enlightened and they are not necessarily the famous gurus. I know nothing about Ram Dad's but when I was more involved in yoga I saw some very shady behavior of public gurus.
    - eludwig 8y ago
      I agree with you, but I don't necessarily see a conflict between someone "teaching" me (what a guru basically is: a teacher, in a way) and other facets of their personality. I've had many teachers that were superb at imparting their lessons while living with the foibles and flaws of being real people. You take what you need from the teacher and move on. An example in popular culture: someone like Bill Cosby, who I am sure influenced countless people to be better people. Well, it turned out that he had major problems (to put it mildly!). Does that negate the "lessons" that he imparted in another aspect of his life? I would argue no. I know you aren't negating this argument in your post, but I just wanted to say this and chose your post to glom onto! :)
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        With self help, spiritual and health people I have decided only to listen to people who live their own teachings. I have seen famous yoga teachers talk about the benefits of yoga while popping large amounts of Ibuprofen daily because their practice injured them. Same for some gurus who outwardly are serene and friendly people but their ashram is a dictatorship that terrorizes and manipulates people. There is also a lot of sexual abuse going on. Ram Dass himself did questionable things. I think bad behavior negates the teachings or at least diminishes them by a lot. How am I supposed to know something works if it doesn't work for the teacher? Unfortunately there are only a few authentic gurus and teachers.
        madmax96 8y ago
        “There is a false saying: “How can someone who can’t save himself save others?” Supposing I have the key to your chains, why should your lock and my lock be the same?” - Nietzsche
      - filoeleven 8y ago
        There’s a recorded conversation between Ram Dass and Terence McKenna during which Ram Dass says, “My life is my message,” and McKemma replies, “My message is my message, my life is a mess!”
        refset 8y ago
        That conversation is absolutely brilliant and, in combination with the Going Home documentary, is what got me probing deeper into Ram Dass' message: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ih4Fg6P730 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ih4Fg6P730
    - clay_the_ripper 8y ago
      A good friend of mine went to India to sit with a guru. He made them meditate underneath a highway overpass in the “slums” for days on end. His message was basically meditation isn’t about putting on pretty music and sitting by a waterfall. Anyone can meditate at a 5 star resort spa. It’s when life hits you in the face that you need to be able to find inner peace, no matter what is going on around you.
      - jamesrcole 8y ago
        I don't see anything wrong with meditating in pleasant circumstances, however.
  - taneq 8y ago
    All you need in order to be happy is to be treated like a minor demigod by all around you. Sounds legit. My favourite example of this (albeit not one that's always been at peace) is the Dalai Lama. Dude goes around talking about love and acceptance and whatnot, which is great and he seems like a great guy, but his experience as someone with an international organisation dedicated to looking after him is maybe not 100% relevant to the life of some random pleb in a Western country.
    - jonnybgood 8y ago
      Curious. Is it avoidable? If you’re trying to teach people to be better and happier through a spiritual context, and they feel they are better and happier, how do you avoid being seen as someone divinely inspired? I don’t think the Dalai Lama is a great example. He doesn’t do it out of choice but out of duty. It’s what a Dalai Lama is expected to do. They are believed to be the reincarnation of an enlightened person who represents compassion. He’s also the head of the exiled Tibetan state, so he probably will have people looking after him whether he likes it or not.
  - josephcooney 8y ago
    funnily enough Ram Das has a great quote on this - something like "If you think you're enlightened go and spend some time with your family".
neonate 8y ago
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2516424/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2516424/ is an interesting documentary about the complicated, ambivalent relationship between Alpert and Leary, made when Leary was dying. Leary, characteristically, turned his death into a spectacle, but I find Alpert the more interesting of the two.
- alexilliamson 8y ago
  I highly recommend How To Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan. He convincingly illustrates how detrimental to serious research were Leary and his penchant for the spectacular.
  - neonate 8y ago
    Well, but Leary also turned into a convenient scapegoat a long time ago, and I'm not sure how fair that is. It was a wild time. He didn't create that. Pollan's book comes at the fulcrum of the movement where a lot of people have been carefully, and strategically, working on rehabilitating psychedelics without spooking the state again. Leary as scapegoat fits into that perfectly. Maybe too perfectly? Leary was brilliant and complex, more interesting than the caricatures, which he admittedly drew a lot of himself. And I would say tragic. I felt from the documentary that prison broke him. His daughter killed herself (also in jail) and his son publicly denounced him and refused to speak to him. The film didn't mention those things.
  - marzell 8y ago
    Pollan also gave credit to the fact that Leary did bring psychedelics into pop culture in a major way, which has had some detrimental effects on serious study, but near the end of the book also acknowledged that on the flipside, all that exposure means currently a lot more people may be interested in serious study than there might be otherwise. I do appreciate Pollan's earnest attempts at considering many sides of an issue. edit: pronoun clarifications
  - fmihaila 8y ago
    I wholeheartedly second the recommendation. I also want to point out that Pollan's treatment of Leary's influence is certainly more nuanced than that. Here's a key quote: > When I asked Rick Doblin if he worries about another backlash, he pointed out that our culture has come a long way from the 1960s and has shown a remarkable ability to digest a great many of the cultural novelties first cooked up during that era. “That was a very different time. People wouldn’t even talk about cancer or death then. Women were tranquilized to give birth; men weren’t allowed in the delivery room! Yoga and meditation were totally weird. Now mindfulness is mainstream and everyone does yoga, and there are birthing centers and hospices all over. We’ve integrated all these things into our culture. And now I think we’re ready to integrate psychedelics.” Doblin points out that many of the people now in charge of our institutions are of a generation well acquainted with these molecules. This, he suggests, is the true legacy of Timothy Leary. It’s all well and good for today’s researchers to disdain his “antics” and blame him for derailing the first wave of research, and yet, as Doblin points out with a smile, “there would be no second wave if Leary hadn’t turned on a whole generation.” Indeed. Consider the case of Paul Summergrad, who has spoken publicly of his own youthful use of psychedelics. In a videotaped interview with Ram Dass that was shown at the 2015 meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, he told his colleagues that an acid trip he took in college had been formative in his intellectual development. (Jeffrey Lieberman, another past president of the American Psychiatric Association, has also written of the insights gleaned from his youthful experiments with LSD.)
djsumdog 8y ago
I had his Be Here Now book in University. I didn't know he had a podcast. I'll have to add it. I had a friend I was tripping on acid with, back in grad school, and he picked up the Be Here Now book, read the intro and said, "Wait, did he seriously change his name to 'Rammed ass?!'" .. I've always wondered about his intent after that. :-P
- FraaJad 8y ago
  Ram Dass (dāsa=devotee (of Lord Rama)). You might have known other people with similar last name (eg: Anil Dash). The most common pronunciation is "Das"
  - cuspycode 8y ago
    Why does anyone feel the need to take on a new name just because you change your religion? I never understood that. I have had epiphanies that dramatically changed my world-view, but I never thought "Now I must take a new name". I'm not criticizing those who do this, since people change their names all the time anyway, but I'm genuinely curious why this phenomenon is so common when people change their religion?
    - moretai 8y ago
      It's part of losing your old identity. You are no one. So join this ashram and till my soil while I sleep with everyone. It's a cult tactic.
    - sn41 8y ago
      This is what I understand - in the Hindu tradition (perhaps it's similar in Buddhist and Catholic traditions) you are supposed to enter a new life when you become a Sannyasi (monk). One of the initial rituals in many schools is to perform funeral rites for your former self. Through this process, you renounce your family, relations, and what you think of as your "identity". Then the guru gives a new name to the monk. Afterwards, monks are prohibited from talking about their purvashrama (previous life).
    - 8y ago
davebryand 8y ago
Understanding and living his message (or any other non-dualist teacher) is the #1 to do if you want a successful startup. (Really, it's the recipe for a successful life. In fact, when you've tasted what he's offering, you may find that stock options, sales funnels, and customer acquisition costs no longer excite you.)
- reidjs 8y ago
  I feel like if you’re excited by those things you will have more success running a startup, no?
  - itomato 8y ago
    Your focus would be completely misplaced.
vijucat 8y ago
I've always been conflicted by these gurus, so let me play devil's advocate and present some things I found when I researched Ram Dass / Neem Karoli Baba a while ago: http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/dass.html http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/dass.html Some interesting tales by Ram Dass about how Neem Karoli read his mind, ingested ginormous amounts of LSD without any effect, etc; here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb2BWvRN090 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb2BWvRN090 The specific story about the Baba reading Ram Dass' mind and informing him that he was thinking about his mother and that she had died of spleen failure stayed with me. Maybe he was informed the previous night that a Professor from the US was arriving whose mother died recently of spleen failure and the rest was about creating an illusion of omniscience? In any case, a large number of these gurus turn out to be sexual predators, and it is absolutely crushing to those who follow them to discover this. UG "masturbation is better than meditation" Krishnamurti was a much needed respite from these masters of bullshit for me, personally.
- gurusarepeople 8y ago
  I'd certainly advocate a high level of skepticism. Even in the article Ram Dass is saying that he gave LSD to the Harvard undergraduate at least in part because he found him attractive. It makes me wonder what else happened in that encounter, but it's certainly a large abuse of power to have a professor giving undergraduate kids LSD. I also think any discussion about these sorts of western gurus must also include dialogues about race, class, and privilege. If he could afford a Cessna, a Mercedes, a sailboat, and multiple apartments, it certainly was not from just a professor's salary. It's a whole lot easier to take a bunch of drugs then go practice asana and pranayama in India with the sort of safety net it sounded like he had.
- moretai 8y ago
  UGK is the real deal.
- fromthestart 8y ago
  >sexual predators Yeah, these guys give off slimy vibes, but I wonder if this term is a little harsh. Women associate willingly with these men, and ostensibly enjoy doing so. If all participants are willing, what is the difference between predation and normal human interaction? Is it not normal for women to be drawn to power and influence?
pahool 8y ago
I have always enjoyed listening to recordings of Ram Dass at various points during his life (much more than I've enjoyed his writings). I have issues with a lot of his beliefs at various points, but his compassion always shines through and I feel like he is being honest with his listeners about his experience of his spiritual journey, even if sometimes he is seeing things through muddy waters. He is imperfect, and searching, and he is very generous and genuine in sharing his experiences. I don't usually feel like I am getting grand truths from him, other than the insight into one seeker's subjective (and powerful) experiences.
gawin 8y ago
After a 2 year long burn-out his book ‘Be Here Now’ brought back balance, a peace of mind, and incredible love and joy in my life.
- moretai 8y ago
  It's a placebo. The peace was always within you.
  - dylan604 8y ago
    While that may be true, if it was the reading of this book that brought that peace of mind to him, why try to discredit his fondness of the book so dismissively? Everyone needs guidance from time to time, does it really matter where the guidance comes from?
  - 8bitsrule 8y ago
    The water is always out there too, but if I've forgotten the way to the well, it's good to see a pointing finger. Richard Bucke got to me before Richard Alpert. Alpert's advanced technology just delivered more current.
swayvil 8y ago
Be Here Now is a really great book.
Nomentatus 8y ago
The most effective rape drug ever, turning adults into children who can be exploited. “I got dismissed from Harvard because I had given psychedelics to an undergraduate. We had agreed with the dean that we would not give psychedelics to undergraduates.” Ram Dass flashes a mischievous grin. “He was an attractive kid.” So do you suspect, I ask, that Maharajji had a hand in making you attracted to men because it would ultimately lead you to him? “I suspect,” he replies with a nod. “He's a rascal.” “Maharajji?” I ask. “Yeah,” Ram Dass says. There are truths to be seen through the eyes of a child, but there's also the rape-facilitation, too.
- thebigspacefuck 8y ago
  Psylocibin is the most effective rape drug ever?
  - Antimachides 8y ago
    It's so effective I had an out-of-body experience and raped myself.
    - 8bitsrule 8y ago
      Ouroboros then!
- toofy 8y ago
  Other than this article, I’m pretty much unfamiliar with Ram Dass, so I’m curious what leads you to believe some form of rape took place. Is there something in Ramm Dass’ past that the article doesn’t cover? I feel like I must be missing something, surely it’s not the drug use alone that has led you to believe this, right?
  - brianberns 8y ago
    You really don't get it? He was using drugs to seduce his students from a position of power and influence over them. That wasn't cool even in 1967.
moretai 8y ago
Gurus are people who get paid for just being charismatic. That's it.
- FlyMoreRockets 8y ago
  You obviously haven't met a Unix Guru.
  - SteveCoast 8y ago
    We don't have HN Gold to give, so please take an update instead.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
empath75 8y ago
On a personal level I find detachment and neutrality to be helpful for reducing anxiety and stress, but on a societal level it sounds like a recipe for mass complacency in the face of oppression.
refset 8y ago
It feels important to emphasise that Ram Dass is not a guru by his own definition: Unity of God, guru, and Self is the higher truth, and if your veil of attachment is very thin, you may be able, like Ramana, to penetrate directly to that essence in the heart. But most of us, to get through our busy human incarnation and the profusion of forms we find in our lives, need guidance and help. Seeing the guru as separate from oneself is a way to approach it in steps of lesser truths. It’s a first step toward becoming the One. The reality of the guru or guide as separate from oneself is a method or vehicle for coming to God. It’s using a relationship with a separate entity, dualism, to get to the One, to the reality that the guru is identical with your inmost being. i.e. God=Guru=Self, see: https://www.ramdass.org/god-guru-self/ https://www.ramdass.org/god-guru-self/ However, of all the things Ram Dass has said and done, the mantra (from the article) is all we really need to remember: “So I accomplish the move from head to heart, in part with mantra: I am loving awareness. I am loving awareness. I am loving awareness.” With each repetition of the mantra, Ram Dass slowly begins charting the daily process of moving his consciousness out of his thinking mind and toward his open, present, compassionate heart—from ego land to soul land. “All the universe is love,” he continues. “And I'm loving all of the universe.… Everything—everything—has love in it.” <3
- 0db532a0 8y ago
  What does it actually mean to say that all the universe is love, and that everything has love in it? Is this more a way in which he is choosing to view things, or an actual statement of fact?
  - refset 8y ago
    I think that the statement "all the universe is love" is the ultimate example of a "Darwinian Truth" (I hesitate to reference Jordan Peterson here, but it's another useful definition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Q2qgdYB3I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Q2qgdYB3I). I believe that in order for us humans to survive and thrive in life, individually and collectively, it is a truth must ultimately be consciously acknowledged. After all, we each represent projections of maternal lineage founded on an unbroken chain of our mothers' unconditional love for us. This way of viewing things is therefore primary since it has been there since very the beginnings of individual awareness. The original fact. As to exactly how you personally should interpret "all the universe is love", well, it's a very personal thing. Perhaps the most general way to convey how that feels to me is: extend your deep inner-child maternal love outwards to encompass the rest of humanity, the Earth's ecosystem, and the natural conditions that gave rise to life itself. Like the feeling of warm sunshine on a cold day.
Animats 8y ago
Oh, that guy. See this New York Times article from 1977.[1] "Over the course of several years, Alpert claimed to have taken some 300 acid trips. Inevitably, the problem became one of facing the blandness of coming down.... Once, he says he and five others locked themselves in a building for three weeks and dropped 400 micrograms of LSD every four hours. Still; when the trip was over, it was over. Finished. Done. In “Be Here Now,” Ram Dass describes the pain: “It was as if you'd come into the kingdom of heaven and seen how it all is, and then you got cast out again.” Looking for a way to get up there and stay up there, maybe even without drugs ... Alpert split for India." Today. tuned out, turned off, and dropped out of sight. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/04/archives/confessions-of-an-american-guru-ram-dass.html https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/04/archives/confessions-of-a...
qwerty456127 8y ago
TLDR. What's the theory?

97 points by adrice727 8y ago

It makes me happy to see this article here. I have always been impressed with the way Ram Dass has traveled through life.

everdev 8y ago
I agree that the message is beautiful. I do have reservations however about gurus, in that the ones I'm aware of tend to live in isolated places where they are worshiped. I feel like it's easy to love and support others when you have peace, quiet, love and support in abundance around you. I'd like to see how these individuals operate in higher stress situations and if they've really perfected the art of love or if it's more a product of their circumstances.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  Agreed. A lot of famous gurus are just very charismatic people that live a very nice life and don't really have to deal with the drudgeries of the life most regular people live. When you look under the cover a lot of them are abusive and really not nice people. I think there are only very few people that are really spiritually enlightened and they are not necessarily the famous gurus. I know nothing about Ram Dad's but when I was more involved in yoga I saw some very shady behavior of public gurus.
  - eludwig 8y ago
    I agree with you, but I don't necessarily see a conflict between someone "teaching" me (what a guru basically is: a teacher, in a way) and other facets of their personality. I've had many teachers that were superb at imparting their lessons while living with the foibles and flaws of being real people. You take what you need from the teacher and move on. An example in popular culture: someone like Bill Cosby, who I am sure influenced countless people to be better people. Well, it turned out that he had major problems (to put it mildly!). Does that negate the "lessons" that he imparted in another aspect of his life? I would argue no. I know you aren't negating this argument in your post, but I just wanted to say this and chose your post to glom onto! :)
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      With self help, spiritual and health people I have decided only to listen to people who live their own teachings. I have seen famous yoga teachers talk about the benefits of yoga while popping large amounts of Ibuprofen daily because their practice injured them. Same for some gurus who outwardly are serene and friendly people but their ashram is a dictatorship that terrorizes and manipulates people. There is also a lot of sexual abuse going on. Ram Dass himself did questionable things. I think bad behavior negates the teachings or at least diminishes them by a lot. How am I supposed to know something works if it doesn't work for the teacher? Unfortunately there are only a few authentic gurus and teachers.
      - madmax96 8y ago
        “There is a false saying: “How can someone who can’t save himself save others?” Supposing I have the key to your chains, why should your lock and my lock be the same?” - Nietzsche
    - filoeleven 8y ago
      There’s a recorded conversation between Ram Dass and Terence McKenna during which Ram Dass says, “My life is my message,” and McKemma replies, “My message is my message, my life is a mess!”
      - refset 8y ago
        That conversation is absolutely brilliant and, in combination with the Going Home documentary, is what got me probing deeper into Ram Dass' message: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ih4Fg6P730 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ih4Fg6P730
  - clay_the_ripper 8y ago
    A good friend of mine went to India to sit with a guru. He made them meditate underneath a highway overpass in the “slums” for days on end. His message was basically meditation isn’t about putting on pretty music and sitting by a waterfall. Anyone can meditate at a 5 star resort spa. It’s when life hits you in the face that you need to be able to find inner peace, no matter what is going on around you.
    - jamesrcole 8y ago
      I don't see anything wrong with meditating in pleasant circumstances, however.
- taneq 8y ago
  All you need in order to be happy is to be treated like a minor demigod by all around you. Sounds legit. My favourite example of this (albeit not one that's always been at peace) is the Dalai Lama. Dude goes around talking about love and acceptance and whatnot, which is great and he seems like a great guy, but his experience as someone with an international organisation dedicated to looking after him is maybe not 100% relevant to the life of some random pleb in a Western country.
  - jonnybgood 8y ago
    Curious. Is it avoidable? If you’re trying to teach people to be better and happier through a spiritual context, and they feel they are better and happier, how do you avoid being seen as someone divinely inspired? I don’t think the Dalai Lama is a great example. He doesn’t do it out of choice but out of duty. It’s what a Dalai Lama is expected to do. They are believed to be the reincarnation of an enlightened person who represents compassion. He’s also the head of the exiled Tibetan state, so he probably will have people looking after him whether he likes it or not.
- josephcooney 8y ago
  funnily enough Ram Das has a great quote on this - something like "If you think you're enlightened go and spend some time with your family".

neonate 8y ago

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2516424/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2516424/ is an interesting documentary about the complicated, ambivalent relationship between Alpert and Leary, made when Leary was dying. Leary, characteristically, turned his death into a spectacle, but I find Alpert the more interesting of the two.

alexilliamson 8y ago
I highly recommend How To Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan. He convincingly illustrates how detrimental to serious research were Leary and his penchant for the spectacular.
- neonate 8y ago
  Well, but Leary also turned into a convenient scapegoat a long time ago, and I'm not sure how fair that is. It was a wild time. He didn't create that. Pollan's book comes at the fulcrum of the movement where a lot of people have been carefully, and strategically, working on rehabilitating psychedelics without spooking the state again. Leary as scapegoat fits into that perfectly. Maybe too perfectly? Leary was brilliant and complex, more interesting than the caricatures, which he admittedly drew a lot of himself. And I would say tragic. I felt from the documentary that prison broke him. His daughter killed herself (also in jail) and his son publicly denounced him and refused to speak to him. The film didn't mention those things.
- marzell 8y ago
  Pollan also gave credit to the fact that Leary did bring psychedelics into pop culture in a major way, which has had some detrimental effects on serious study, but near the end of the book also acknowledged that on the flipside, all that exposure means currently a lot more people may be interested in serious study than there might be otherwise. I do appreciate Pollan's earnest attempts at considering many sides of an issue. edit: pronoun clarifications
- fmihaila 8y ago
  I wholeheartedly second the recommendation. I also want to point out that Pollan's treatment of Leary's influence is certainly more nuanced than that. Here's a key quote: > When I asked Rick Doblin if he worries about another backlash, he pointed out that our culture has come a long way from the 1960s and has shown a remarkable ability to digest a great many of the cultural novelties first cooked up during that era. “That was a very different time. People wouldn’t even talk about cancer or death then. Women were tranquilized to give birth; men weren’t allowed in the delivery room! Yoga and meditation were totally weird. Now mindfulness is mainstream and everyone does yoga, and there are birthing centers and hospices all over. We’ve integrated all these things into our culture. And now I think we’re ready to integrate psychedelics.” Doblin points out that many of the people now in charge of our institutions are of a generation well acquainted with these molecules. This, he suggests, is the true legacy of Timothy Leary. It’s all well and good for today’s researchers to disdain his “antics” and blame him for derailing the first wave of research, and yet, as Doblin points out with a smile, “there would be no second wave if Leary hadn’t turned on a whole generation.” Indeed. Consider the case of Paul Summergrad, who has spoken publicly of his own youthful use of psychedelics. In a videotaped interview with Ram Dass that was shown at the 2015 meeting of the American Psychiatric Association, he told his colleagues that an acid trip he took in college had been formative in his intellectual development. (Jeffrey Lieberman, another past president of the American Psychiatric Association, has also written of the insights gleaned from his youthful experiments with LSD.)

djsumdog 8y ago

I had his Be Here Now book in University. I didn't know he had a podcast. I'll have to add it. I had a friend I was tripping on acid with, back in grad school, and he picked up the Be Here Now book, read the intro and said, "Wait, did he seriously change his name to 'Rammed ass?!'" .. I've always wondered about his intent after that. :-P

FraaJad 8y ago
Ram Dass (dāsa=devotee (of Lord Rama)). You might have known other people with similar last name (eg: Anil Dash). The most common pronunciation is "Das"
- cuspycode 8y ago
  Why does anyone feel the need to take on a new name just because you change your religion? I never understood that. I have had epiphanies that dramatically changed my world-view, but I never thought "Now I must take a new name". I'm not criticizing those who do this, since people change their names all the time anyway, but I'm genuinely curious why this phenomenon is so common when people change their religion?
  - moretai 8y ago
    It's part of losing your old identity. You are no one. So join this ashram and till my soil while I sleep with everyone. It's a cult tactic.
  - sn41 8y ago
    This is what I understand - in the Hindu tradition (perhaps it's similar in Buddhist and Catholic traditions) you are supposed to enter a new life when you become a Sannyasi (monk). One of the initial rituals in many schools is to perform funeral rites for your former self. Through this process, you renounce your family, relations, and what you think of as your "identity". Then the guru gives a new name to the monk. Afterwards, monks are prohibited from talking about their purvashrama (previous life).
  - 8y ago

davebryand 8y ago

Understanding and living his message (or any other non-dualist teacher) is the #1 to do if you want a successful startup. (Really, it's the recipe for a successful life. In fact, when you've tasted what he's offering, you may find that stock options, sales funnels, and customer acquisition costs no longer excite you.)

reidjs 8y ago
I feel like if you’re excited by those things you will have more success running a startup, no?
- itomato 8y ago
  Your focus would be completely misplaced.

vijucat 8y ago

I've always been conflicted by these gurus, so let me play devil's advocate and present some things I found when I researched Ram Dass / Neem Karoli Baba a while ago: http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/dass.html http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/dass.html Some interesting tales by Ram Dass about how Neem Karoli read his mind, ingested ginormous amounts of LSD without any effect, etc; here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb2BWvRN090 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb2BWvRN090 The specific story about the Baba reading Ram Dass' mind and informing him that he was thinking about his mother and that she had died of spleen failure stayed with me. Maybe he was informed the previous night that a Professor from the US was arriving whose mother died recently of spleen failure and the rest was about creating an illusion of omniscience? In any case, a large number of these gurus turn out to be sexual predators, and it is absolutely crushing to those who follow them to discover this. UG "masturbation is better than meditation" Krishnamurti was a much needed respite from these masters of bullshit for me, personally.

gurusarepeople 8y ago
I'd certainly advocate a high level of skepticism. Even in the article Ram Dass is saying that he gave LSD to the Harvard undergraduate at least in part because he found him attractive. It makes me wonder what else happened in that encounter, but it's certainly a large abuse of power to have a professor giving undergraduate kids LSD. I also think any discussion about these sorts of western gurus must also include dialogues about race, class, and privilege. If he could afford a Cessna, a Mercedes, a sailboat, and multiple apartments, it certainly was not from just a professor's salary. It's a whole lot easier to take a bunch of drugs then go practice asana and pranayama in India with the sort of safety net it sounded like he had.
moretai 8y ago
UGK is the real deal.
fromthestart 8y ago
>sexual predators Yeah, these guys give off slimy vibes, but I wonder if this term is a little harsh. Women associate willingly with these men, and ostensibly enjoy doing so. If all participants are willing, what is the difference between predation and normal human interaction? Is it not normal for women to be drawn to power and influence?

pahool 8y ago

I have always enjoyed listening to recordings of Ram Dass at various points during his life (much more than I've enjoyed his writings). I have issues with a lot of his beliefs at various points, but his compassion always shines through and I feel like he is being honest with his listeners about his experience of his spiritual journey, even if sometimes he is seeing things through muddy waters. He is imperfect, and searching, and he is very generous and genuine in sharing his experiences. I don't usually feel like I am getting grand truths from him, other than the insight into one seeker's subjective (and powerful) experiences.

gawin 8y ago

After a 2 year long burn-out his book ‘Be Here Now’ brought back balance, a peace of mind, and incredible love and joy in my life.

moretai 8y ago
It's a placebo. The peace was always within you.
- dylan604 8y ago
  While that may be true, if it was the reading of this book that brought that peace of mind to him, why try to discredit his fondness of the book so dismissively? Everyone needs guidance from time to time, does it really matter where the guidance comes from?
- 8bitsrule 8y ago
  The water is always out there too, but if I've forgotten the way to the well, it's good to see a pointing finger. Richard Bucke got to me before Richard Alpert. Alpert's advanced technology just delivered more current.

swayvil 8y ago

Be Here Now is a really great book.

Nomentatus 8y ago

The most effective rape drug ever, turning adults into children who can be exploited. “I got dismissed from Harvard because I had given psychedelics to an undergraduate. We had agreed with the dean that we would not give psychedelics to undergraduates.” Ram Dass flashes a mischievous grin. “He was an attractive kid.” So do you suspect, I ask, that Maharajji had a hand in making you attracted to men because it would ultimately lead you to him? “I suspect,” he replies with a nod. “He's a rascal.” “Maharajji?” I ask. “Yeah,” Ram Dass says. There are truths to be seen through the eyes of a child, but there's also the rape-facilitation, too.

thebigspacefuck 8y ago
Psylocibin is the most effective rape drug ever?
- Antimachides 8y ago
  It's so effective I had an out-of-body experience and raped myself.
  - 8bitsrule 8y ago
    Ouroboros then!
toofy 8y ago
Other than this article, I’m pretty much unfamiliar with Ram Dass, so I’m curious what leads you to believe some form of rape took place. Is there something in Ramm Dass’ past that the article doesn’t cover? I feel like I must be missing something, surely it’s not the drug use alone that has led you to believe this, right?
- brianberns 8y ago
  You really don't get it? He was using drugs to seduce his students from a position of power and influence over them. That wasn't cool even in 1967.

moretai 8y ago

Gurus are people who get paid for just being charismatic. That's it.

FlyMoreRockets 8y ago
You obviously haven't met a Unix Guru.
- SteveCoast 8y ago
  We don't have HN Gold to give, so please take an update instead.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

empath75 8y ago

On a personal level I find detachment and neutrality to be helpful for reducing anxiety and stress, but on a societal level it sounds like a recipe for mass complacency in the face of oppression.

refset 8y ago

It feels important to emphasise that Ram Dass is not a guru by his own definition: Unity of God, guru, and Self is the higher truth, and if your veil of attachment is very thin, you may be able, like Ramana, to penetrate directly to that essence in the heart. But most of us, to get through our busy human incarnation and the profusion of forms we find in our lives, need guidance and help. Seeing the guru as separate from oneself is a way to approach it in steps of lesser truths. It’s a first step toward becoming the One. The reality of the guru or guide as separate from oneself is a method or vehicle for coming to God. It’s using a relationship with a separate entity, dualism, to get to the One, to the reality that the guru is identical with your inmost being. i.e. God=Guru=Self, see: https://www.ramdass.org/god-guru-self/ https://www.ramdass.org/god-guru-self/ However, of all the things Ram Dass has said and done, the mantra (from the article) is all we really need to remember: “So I accomplish the move from head to heart, in part with mantra: I am loving awareness. I am loving awareness. I am loving awareness.” With each repetition of the mantra, Ram Dass slowly begins charting the daily process of moving his consciousness out of his thinking mind and toward his open, present, compassionate heart—from ego land to soul land. “All the universe is love,” he continues. “And I'm loving all of the universe.… Everything—everything—has love in it.” <3

0db532a0 8y ago
What does it actually mean to say that all the universe is love, and that everything has love in it? Is this more a way in which he is choosing to view things, or an actual statement of fact?
- refset 8y ago
  I think that the statement "all the universe is love" is the ultimate example of a "Darwinian Truth" (I hesitate to reference Jordan Peterson here, but it's another useful definition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Q2qgdYB3I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Q2qgdYB3I). I believe that in order for us humans to survive and thrive in life, individually and collectively, it is a truth must ultimately be consciously acknowledged. After all, we each represent projections of maternal lineage founded on an unbroken chain of our mothers' unconditional love for us. This way of viewing things is therefore primary since it has been there since very the beginnings of individual awareness. The original fact. As to exactly how you personally should interpret "all the universe is love", well, it's a very personal thing. Perhaps the most general way to convey how that feels to me is: extend your deep inner-child maternal love outwards to encompass the rest of humanity, the Earth's ecosystem, and the natural conditions that gave rise to life itself. Like the feeling of warm sunshine on a cold day.

Animats 8y ago

Oh, that guy. See this New York Times article from 1977.[1] "Over the course of several years, Alpert claimed to have taken some 300 acid trips. Inevitably, the problem became one of facing the blandness of coming down.... Once, he says he and five others locked themselves in a building for three weeks and dropped 400 micrograms of LSD every four hours. Still; when the trip was over, it was over. Finished. Done. In “Be Here Now,” Ram Dass describes the pain: “It was as if you'd come into the kingdom of heaven and seen how it all is, and then you got cast out again.” Looking for a way to get up there and stay up there, maybe even without drugs ... Alpert split for India." Today. tuned out, turned off, and dropped out of sight. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/04/archives/confessions-of-an-american-guru-ram-dass.html https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/04/archives/confessions-of-a...

qwerty456127 8y ago

TLDR. What's the theory?