6 ms·

This makes salaries and compensation in Toronto seem outrageously low. Wow. Maybe I should be moving? Crazy. (Sadly, family is here, so moving is unlikely)

radicaldreamer 8y ago
This is the usual reaction for those outside the Bay Area. Cost of living is very high in SF though, as are home prices.
- robynsmith 8y ago
  True. But Toronto is pretty bad too. And we generally don't have the high levels of stock compensation. That looks like it could make a huge difference.
- usaar333 8y ago
  Yes, but if you are capable of getting to senior levels at Google, COL in the Bay area is much less of a concern.
- int_19h 8y ago
  It doesn't only show Bay Area numbers, though, but also e.g. Seattle, where the prices (while still high) are far lower - especially in more remote places that still have a decent commute to tech campuses in Redmond, Kirkland and Bellevue.
- randyrand 8y ago
  worth noting that homes are expensive because compensation is high, not the other way around. expensive housing does bring up low wages, but does not increase top level wages. while savings rate stays the same despite CoL, total savings increases. all else being equal, living in the bay is worth it despite the CoL for most developers
ttt111222333 8y ago
Would be nice if people from Toronto would enter more data points for the more popular startups I.e. shopify, instacart, unata, ritual, league, top hat, wealthsimple, freshbooks, pivotal, ada, etc
nemo44x 8y ago
The truth is, in my experience, people in the major cities (and even some outside them) in the USA are the most highly compensated people on Earth. Canada and the EU have a lot of social systems that cost a lot of money. They have a lot of worker protections. This means it costs more to hire someone there and it is very difficult to get rid of them meaning more risk for the company. Because of this (and other reasons I'm sure) the wages are far lower. In the low end and even mid-tier this probably works out better for Canada and the EU. But at the high end, which these jobs are, you're paying a large price compared to the USA. But hopefully you find the costs worth it.
- parasubvert 8y ago
  Canada doesn’t have anywhere near the worker protections of the EU. It’s not quite “at will” employment but... I live in Canada and work remotely for a US tech company which has helped keep my comp competitive. It not about laws or taxes really (ours aren’t much more than California really), it’s that the wage inflation / talent war hasn’t quite made it up here yet.
  - titanomachy 8y ago
    Seconded, I don't think it has anything to do with Canada's social programs. And it's pretty easy to fire someone, you just have to give them a small amount of severance depending on how long they've worked for you. I think the biggest factor is that it's much, much easier to import workers from Europe and Asia. I worked at a major tech company in Canada and the office was 50%+ foreign nationals who wouldn't have had authorization to work in the US anyway. A lot of the Canadian citizens eventually left to take 2-3x salaries in the States (there is a visa category that makes it really easy for Canadian engineers to work in the US.)
ggregoire 8y ago
This makes salaries anywhere else on Earth outrageously low.

radicaldreamer 8y ago

This is the usual reaction for those outside the Bay Area. Cost of living is very high in SF though, as are home prices.

robynsmith 8y ago
True. But Toronto is pretty bad too. And we generally don't have the high levels of stock compensation. That looks like it could make a huge difference.
usaar333 8y ago
Yes, but if you are capable of getting to senior levels at Google, COL in the Bay area is much less of a concern.
int_19h 8y ago
It doesn't only show Bay Area numbers, though, but also e.g. Seattle, where the prices (while still high) are far lower - especially in more remote places that still have a decent commute to tech campuses in Redmond, Kirkland and Bellevue.
randyrand 8y ago
worth noting that homes are expensive because compensation is high, not the other way around. expensive housing does bring up low wages, but does not increase top level wages. while savings rate stays the same despite CoL, total savings increases. all else being equal, living in the bay is worth it despite the CoL for most developers

ttt111222333 8y ago

Would be nice if people from Toronto would enter more data points for the more popular startups I.e. shopify, instacart, unata, ritual, league, top hat, wealthsimple, freshbooks, pivotal, ada, etc

nemo44x 8y ago

The truth is, in my experience, people in the major cities (and even some outside them) in the USA are the most highly compensated people on Earth. Canada and the EU have a lot of social systems that cost a lot of money. They have a lot of worker protections. This means it costs more to hire someone there and it is very difficult to get rid of them meaning more risk for the company. Because of this (and other reasons I'm sure) the wages are far lower. In the low end and even mid-tier this probably works out better for Canada and the EU. But at the high end, which these jobs are, you're paying a large price compared to the USA. But hopefully you find the costs worth it.

parasubvert 8y ago
Canada doesn’t have anywhere near the worker protections of the EU. It’s not quite “at will” employment but... I live in Canada and work remotely for a US tech company which has helped keep my comp competitive. It not about laws or taxes really (ours aren’t much more than California really), it’s that the wage inflation / talent war hasn’t quite made it up here yet.
- titanomachy 8y ago
  Seconded, I don't think it has anything to do with Canada's social programs. And it's pretty easy to fire someone, you just have to give them a small amount of severance depending on how long they've worked for you. I think the biggest factor is that it's much, much easier to import workers from Europe and Asia. I worked at a major tech company in Canada and the office was 50%+ foreign nationals who wouldn't have had authorization to work in the US anyway. A lot of the Canadian citizens eventually left to take 2-3x salaries in the States (there is a visa category that makes it really easy for Canadian engineers to work in the US.)

ggregoire 8y ago

This makes salaries anywhere else on Earth outrageously low.