7 ms·

That needs a citation. If you cut out everything we have they didn't - cable TV, Netflix, computers, internet, cafes, restaurants, Kindle, better choices in gr

by T2_t2 8y ago

That needs a citation. If you cut out everything we have they didn't - cable TV, Netflix, computers, internet, cafes, restaurants, Kindle, better choices in grocery food and alcohol - and ate the sort of cheap food people lived on, things like meatloaf and crappy ingredient dishes, I reckon it would be entirely possible. The only thing that is prohibitively expensive today vs 1980 is housing. The reasons for that are multiple, but mostly NIMBYism.

charlieflowers 8y ago
Education? Tuition bubble? Healthcare?
beat 8y ago
A quick look at education numbers finds that, since 1988, the cost of private four year college has doubled (in inflation-adjusted dollars), and the cost of state four year college has tripled. Again in constant dollars, health care has seen a more than fivefold increase since 1970, from under $2000 to over $10,000 per capita. Constant dollars, mind you. Health care and education costs are more or less fixed and unavoidable. They're more like fees than taxes, flat no matter the income.
- TuringNYC 8y ago
  >> Health care and education costs are more or less fixed and unavoidable. They're more like fees than taxes, flat no matter the income. Flat if you are lucky enough to be healthy. Enormous once you actually have an issue, like a complicated pregnancy, or something that requires an MRI.
- gowld 8y ago
  Health care is amazingly better now than it was for our parents.
  - spectrum1234 8y ago
    It's too good. You can't pay less to get the world class care of ten years ago. Name one other sector you can't pay less for lower quality
  - beat 8y ago
    Health care in the US costs twice as much as any other modernized nation, for worse results in many key measures (particularly no universal coverage, and high financial risk to individuals even with good insurance).
rhacker 8y ago
I think people will stop being NIMBY when people stop being inconsiderate to others and I only see that trend skyrocketing right now.
orbitingpluto 8y ago
But then you'd need to include things that they have that we don't. The cost of activities for children has skyrocketed beyond belief compared to 40 years ago.
- tasuki 8y ago
  Wasn't the primary activity for children 40 years ago "go play in the street with your friends"? Has that become any more expensive?
  - orbitingpluto 8y ago
    Yes, outside wandering has been replaced with, "here's an iPad". But if you're talking about any sort of instruction I'd say the prices have tripled. If you're talking about something like organized hockey? Prices are astronomical.
    - barrow-rider 8y ago
      Hockey is not a good measure of kids activities. Not really common outside of the north, and wayyyy more expensive than most other sports. Kids basketball consists of 1) kid. 2) shoes. 3) ball. And you only need 1 ball per group of kids. Ditto for soccer (futbol) A jersey is optional. Hockey requires a bunch of pads which will be changed out every year or two as the kid gets bigger. Hopefully they have a sibling that can make use of them otherwise it's a sunk cost. Then there are broken sticks, broken teeth, hockey bags, ice time -- non-trvial -- and it adds up. Hell, the cost of replacement skate blades -- not including the yearly sharpening -- is more than the cost of a basketball and a cheapo pair of wal-mart athletic shoes: https://www.bladzskateshop.com/product/bauer-lightspeed-replacement-skate-blades/ https://www.bladzskateshop.com/product/bauer-lightspeed-repl...
alexgmcm 8y ago
I think they had cafes and restaurants etc. in the 70's... Also Netflix is really, really cheap and my computer cost me approx 800 USD and has lasted 5 years. Housing (and in the USA, healthcare and college I suppose) are by far the most expensive things for most people and have soared in price. All the other things are negligible in comparison - it's like the people going on about avocado toast.
- EADGBE 8y ago
  Death by 1000 cuts exists, though. Assume $120 annually for Netflix. A cost almost everyone assumes now, and most people have (58M subscribers in the US/~120M households in the US). $120 compounded yearly at an 8% rate over 18 years is almost ~$5k. Depending on the year attended that's anywhere between 2/3 years of a degree and half of a semester at a public institution (in today's dollars). Point is, it all adds up. And taking your example; the most expensive things we spend money on are also inflating at an abnormally high rate. The money has to come from somewhere, and when it's leaking out $10/month at a time, it's sometimes hard to find and easy to overlook.
JimboOmega 8y ago
It's interesting when you imagine the other person is doing cooking, grocery shopping, child care, etc - doing the things you pay an app an inflated price to do for you. However, it's housing - in the bay area in particular - that makes it look very impossible. For a relatively modest 1 BR apartment in SF, I'm paying close to half my after tax, after-401(k) take home, as a senior engineer doing relatively well. If I'd need to pay 50% more to have a 2BR (at a minimum) for a wife and a child or two, that leaves a very small amount (for what's now twice as many people) to live on; roughly 10% of my base salary. It looks nearly impossible. If you are extremely frugal (no restaurants, no vacations), if you get really lucky in finding housing, and most of all if there are no big surprise expenses (e.g. medical ones), MAYBE. But none of those caveats applied in the case of my father; his standard of living was higher than mine is now. Of course, if I were to move to another market, it's quite possible. I might take a 20% pay cut but if real estate is a third the cost than suddenly it doesn't seem like an impossible scaling issue that it currently is. I might even be able to afford a car.

by T2_t2 8y ago

charlieflowers 8y ago

Education? Tuition bubble? Healthcare?

beat 8y ago

A quick look at education numbers finds that, since 1988, the cost of private four year college has doubled (in inflation-adjusted dollars), and the cost of state four year college has tripled. Again in constant dollars, health care has seen a more than fivefold increase since 1970, from under $2000 to over $10,000 per capita. Constant dollars, mind you. Health care and education costs are more or less fixed and unavoidable. They're more like fees than taxes, flat no matter the income.

TuringNYC 8y ago
>> Health care and education costs are more or less fixed and unavoidable. They're more like fees than taxes, flat no matter the income. Flat if you are lucky enough to be healthy. Enormous once you actually have an issue, like a complicated pregnancy, or something that requires an MRI.
gowld 8y ago
Health care is amazingly better now than it was for our parents.
- spectrum1234 8y ago
  It's too good. You can't pay less to get the world class care of ten years ago. Name one other sector you can't pay less for lower quality
- beat 8y ago
  Health care in the US costs twice as much as any other modernized nation, for worse results in many key measures (particularly no universal coverage, and high financial risk to individuals even with good insurance).

rhacker 8y ago

I think people will stop being NIMBY when people stop being inconsiderate to others and I only see that trend skyrocketing right now.

orbitingpluto 8y ago

But then you'd need to include things that they have that we don't. The cost of activities for children has skyrocketed beyond belief compared to 40 years ago.

tasuki 8y ago
Wasn't the primary activity for children 40 years ago "go play in the street with your friends"? Has that become any more expensive?
- orbitingpluto 8y ago
  Yes, outside wandering has been replaced with, "here's an iPad". But if you're talking about any sort of instruction I'd say the prices have tripled. If you're talking about something like organized hockey? Prices are astronomical.
  - barrow-rider 8y ago
    Hockey is not a good measure of kids activities. Not really common outside of the north, and wayyyy more expensive than most other sports. Kids basketball consists of 1) kid. 2) shoes. 3) ball. And you only need 1 ball per group of kids. Ditto for soccer (futbol) A jersey is optional. Hockey requires a bunch of pads which will be changed out every year or two as the kid gets bigger. Hopefully they have a sibling that can make use of them otherwise it's a sunk cost. Then there are broken sticks, broken teeth, hockey bags, ice time -- non-trvial -- and it adds up. Hell, the cost of replacement skate blades -- not including the yearly sharpening -- is more than the cost of a basketball and a cheapo pair of wal-mart athletic shoes: https://www.bladzskateshop.com/product/bauer-lightspeed-replacement-skate-blades/ https://www.bladzskateshop.com/product/bauer-lightspeed-repl...

alexgmcm 8y ago

I think they had cafes and restaurants etc. in the 70's... Also Netflix is really, really cheap and my computer cost me approx 800 USD and has lasted 5 years. Housing (and in the USA, healthcare and college I suppose) are by far the most expensive things for most people and have soared in price. All the other things are negligible in comparison - it's like the people going on about avocado toast.

EADGBE 8y ago
Death by 1000 cuts exists, though. Assume $120 annually for Netflix. A cost almost everyone assumes now, and most people have (58M subscribers in the US/~120M households in the US). $120 compounded yearly at an 8% rate over 18 years is almost ~$5k. Depending on the year attended that's anywhere between 2/3 years of a degree and half of a semester at a public institution (in today's dollars). Point is, it all adds up. And taking your example; the most expensive things we spend money on are also inflating at an abnormally high rate. The money has to come from somewhere, and when it's leaking out $10/month at a time, it's sometimes hard to find and easy to overlook.

JimboOmega 8y ago

It's interesting when you imagine the other person is doing cooking, grocery shopping, child care, etc - doing the things you pay an app an inflated price to do for you. However, it's housing - in the bay area in particular - that makes it look very impossible. For a relatively modest 1 BR apartment in SF, I'm paying close to half my after tax, after-401(k) take home, as a senior engineer doing relatively well. If I'd need to pay 50% more to have a 2BR (at a minimum) for a wife and a child or two, that leaves a very small amount (for what's now twice as many people) to live on; roughly 10% of my base salary. It looks nearly impossible. If you are extremely frugal (no restaurants, no vacations), if you get really lucky in finding housing, and most of all if there are no big surprise expenses (e.g. medical ones), MAYBE. But none of those caveats applied in the case of my father; his standard of living was higher than mine is now. Of course, if I were to move to another market, it's quite possible. I might take a 20% pay cut but if real estate is a third the cost than suddenly it doesn't seem like an impossible scaling issue that it currently is. I might even be able to afford a car.