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It's all about culture. If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. People that converted without a high-church co

It's all about culture. If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. People that converted without a high-church context gravitate toward a more modern style of worship. The downside of so much hillsong influence is that it dominates a culture and drowns out other modern styles. I feel like all hillsong songs sound the same.

bartread 8y ago
Tend to agree. Most Christian music sounds very samey to me and simply doesn't stir my soul. I realise this is a very personal perspective, but I find a lot of "secular" music better for worship: Hendrix, Led Zep, Guns 'N' Roses, Soundgarden, Hybrid, She, Pendulum, and of course plenty of orchestral and ensemble music from earlier eras. This stuff stirs my soul. I'm honestly not trying to be edgy here, and I'm well aware that this isn't going to be everyone's (or even the majority's) bag, and I'm definitely not suggesting that Christian music needs to change for my benefit (it really doesn't). That's all totally OK: it's just me saying that after 22 years of being a Christian I know who I am.
- redbeard0x0a 8y ago
  > I'm honestly not trying to be edgy here, and I'm well aware that this isn't going to be everyone's (or even the majority's) bag We forget that people are extremely varied, there is room for everybody. An infinite God probably doesn't create only ~3 "right" ways of worshipping, living, serving, teaching, etc.
- taborj 8y ago
  As the Grateful Dead once sang - "Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right."
- dagw 8y ago
  This is one of those ancient church debates that goes back centuries. Should 'church' music be something that you listen to in silence and revel in its beauty or something that your participate and by doing so praise God with your voice. If you want everybody to play/sing along with gusto you better make the music easy to sing and play.
- dreix 8y ago
  you're right and it tends to become more and more like that. On the other hand they are so simple you can pretty much pick up any song after the first couple of lines.
- kybernetikos 8y ago
  There may be a distinction between music that is intended to stir you as you listen to it and music that is intended to stir you as you sing it.
camelNotation 8y ago
That's a very modern perspective, not necessarily consistent with Christian theology at all. The notion that people in the ancient world or simply older people today enjoy church music out of preference seems to ignore the fact that street music and folk music were NEVER comparable to church music. The idea behind unique liturgical music was that the structure of the music itself revealed something about the nature of creation that was worth LEARNING to like, even though it was alien. The notion that people can and should just gravitate to whatever suits their personal tastes implies that their tastes do not need redemption.
- weberc2 8y ago
  How is that inconsistent with Christian theology? Theology is diverse and different schools hold different, often contradictory views on any given topic. Usually what is called “Christian theology” is that for which there is a general consensus among theologians, and I’m unaware of any such consensus on this particular subject.
  - camelNotation 8y ago
    In the year 2018, Christian theology is almost infinitely diverse, but it wasn't always so. That diversity is very modern. For the vast majority of Christian history, the sacramental role of music in Christianity was essentially a universal given. It wasn't until the Protestant Reformation that anyone even considered divorcing music from sacramental theology and it wasn't until the mid-20th century that the idea of church music as a matter of preference even arose. To speak authoritatively of "Christian theology" in the context of music in any meaningful sense, a "vote" needs to be given to every generation of Christians, not just the current one. And in that sense, there really is a consensus.
    - weberc2 8y ago
      > To speak authoritatively of "Christian theology" in the context of music in any meaningful sense, a "vote" needs to be given to every generation of Christians, not just the current one. Definitely, but we also need to consider that before the industrial revolution, Christians were limited in their options (most folks were very poor by modern standards, there isn't much diversity in music in general, and there is a comparatively narrow [and at various times, more corrupt] group of people making decisions on theology and music). So we need to consider history, but we don't weight all history evenly--there is such a thing as 'progress', after all.
KarenSatantsby 8y ago
High-Church sounds fun. I would go if Angie from Sweden went to that church. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdGgljB_hYvI7ZXTfebLymw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdGgljB_hYvI7ZXTfebLymw She writes really cat-chy schlock that I love and sing along to "I get high, eat pussy every day, and every day is kind of the same" Encapsulates the world in which I would want to live. I think that by saying that a church service is not a concert for entertainment is disingenuous or at least profoundly lacking in introspection. Music and lies go together but also music and entertainment.. Never ever do you have music and fear and jealousy - that has to be communicated with the sermon.
bmj 8y ago
Stanley Hauerwas (theologian) had this to say about music in worship: One reason why we Christians argue so much about which hymn to sing, which liturgy to follow, which way to worship is that the commandments teach us to believe that bad liturgy eventually leads to bad ethics. You begin by singing some sappy, sentimental hymn, then you pray some pointless prayer, and the next thing you know you have murdered your best friend.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
  Sounds like he hangs out with a bunch of psychopaths who missed the core message of what they're congregating for.
  - richgroot 8y ago
    I knew Stanley several years ago when we attended the same church. I'm not a psychopath and neither were the other folks in our congregation. Stanley was a good teacher but a bit of a monotone during the songs. I hope he is still doing well. Good man.
    - bmj 8y ago
      Well, Stanley is known for overstatement, and there's a good chance this is hagiographic. But, I take the point to be that we need to be on guard about what we call worship because it does form us.
rjmunro 8y ago
I think that to people who haven't spent serious time listening to it, all organ/choral music "sounds the same".
- explorigin 8y ago
  Let me add some texture to my comment. When I flip through radio stations in the car, I can always identify the contemporary christian station by the music style regardless of if I've heard the song before. It's not about not hearing enough of the music to differentiate songs. It's that they all have the same elements...like Taco Bell, it's only 7 ingredients.
- wbl 8y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MwDDK3jodw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MwDDK3jodw is Eric Whitacre. It's recent. Now contrast to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY4DCG-nFBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY4DCG-nFBI by Martin Luther. I doubt those two can ever be confused. And that's not even Xenakis! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jESS3gP1GGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jESS3gP1GGE
reaperducer 8y ago
If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. For those interested in this sort of thing, Minnesota Public Radio's app has an entire streaming channel of choral music.
cvwright 8y ago
> If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. Counterpoint: Lots of people, especially those who had not-great experiences growing up in the church, tend to go hard in a different direction when they grow up. In "Blue Like Jazz", Donald Miller talks about how he thinks it would be super cool to belong to a relatively obscure (in the US) denomination like the Greek Orthodox --- that is, unless he had grown up Greek Orthodox. Then he thinks it would be totally lame and predictable.

bartread 8y ago

Tend to agree. Most Christian music sounds very samey to me and simply doesn't stir my soul. I realise this is a very personal perspective, but I find a lot of "secular" music better for worship: Hendrix, Led Zep, Guns 'N' Roses, Soundgarden, Hybrid, She, Pendulum, and of course plenty of orchestral and ensemble music from earlier eras. This stuff stirs my soul. I'm honestly not trying to be edgy here, and I'm well aware that this isn't going to be everyone's (or even the majority's) bag, and I'm definitely not suggesting that Christian music needs to change for my benefit (it really doesn't). That's all totally OK: it's just me saying that after 22 years of being a Christian I know who I am.

redbeard0x0a 8y ago
> I'm honestly not trying to be edgy here, and I'm well aware that this isn't going to be everyone's (or even the majority's) bag We forget that people are extremely varied, there is room for everybody. An infinite God probably doesn't create only ~3 "right" ways of worshipping, living, serving, teaching, etc.
taborj 8y ago
As the Grateful Dead once sang - "Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right."
dagw 8y ago
This is one of those ancient church debates that goes back centuries. Should 'church' music be something that you listen to in silence and revel in its beauty or something that your participate and by doing so praise God with your voice. If you want everybody to play/sing along with gusto you better make the music easy to sing and play.
dreix 8y ago
you're right and it tends to become more and more like that. On the other hand they are so simple you can pretty much pick up any song after the first couple of lines.
kybernetikos 8y ago
There may be a distinction between music that is intended to stir you as you listen to it and music that is intended to stir you as you sing it.

camelNotation 8y ago

That's a very modern perspective, not necessarily consistent with Christian theology at all. The notion that people in the ancient world or simply older people today enjoy church music out of preference seems to ignore the fact that street music and folk music were NEVER comparable to church music. The idea behind unique liturgical music was that the structure of the music itself revealed something about the nature of creation that was worth LEARNING to like, even though it was alien. The notion that people can and should just gravitate to whatever suits their personal tastes implies that their tastes do not need redemption.

weberc2 8y ago
How is that inconsistent with Christian theology? Theology is diverse and different schools hold different, often contradictory views on any given topic. Usually what is called “Christian theology” is that for which there is a general consensus among theologians, and I’m unaware of any such consensus on this particular subject.
- camelNotation 8y ago
  In the year 2018, Christian theology is almost infinitely diverse, but it wasn't always so. That diversity is very modern. For the vast majority of Christian history, the sacramental role of music in Christianity was essentially a universal given. It wasn't until the Protestant Reformation that anyone even considered divorcing music from sacramental theology and it wasn't until the mid-20th century that the idea of church music as a matter of preference even arose. To speak authoritatively of "Christian theology" in the context of music in any meaningful sense, a "vote" needs to be given to every generation of Christians, not just the current one. And in that sense, there really is a consensus.
  - weberc2 8y ago
    > To speak authoritatively of "Christian theology" in the context of music in any meaningful sense, a "vote" needs to be given to every generation of Christians, not just the current one. Definitely, but we also need to consider that before the industrial revolution, Christians were limited in their options (most folks were very poor by modern standards, there isn't much diversity in music in general, and there is a comparatively narrow [and at various times, more corrupt] group of people making decisions on theology and music). So we need to consider history, but we don't weight all history evenly--there is such a thing as 'progress', after all.

KarenSatantsby 8y ago

High-Church sounds fun. I would go if Angie from Sweden went to that church. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdGgljB_hYvI7ZXTfebLymw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdGgljB_hYvI7ZXTfebLymw She writes really cat-chy schlock that I love and sing along to "I get high, eat pussy every day, and every day is kind of the same" Encapsulates the world in which I would want to live. I think that by saying that a church service is not a concert for entertainment is disingenuous or at least profoundly lacking in introspection. Music and lies go together but also music and entertainment.. Never ever do you have music and fear and jealousy - that has to be communicated with the sermon.

bmj 8y ago

Stanley Hauerwas (theologian) had this to say about music in worship: One reason why we Christians argue so much about which hymn to sing, which liturgy to follow, which way to worship is that the commandments teach us to believe that bad liturgy eventually leads to bad ethics. You begin by singing some sappy, sentimental hymn, then you pray some pointless prayer, and the next thing you know you have murdered your best friend.

kevin_thibedeau 8y ago
Sounds like he hangs out with a bunch of psychopaths who missed the core message of what they're congregating for.
- richgroot 8y ago
  I knew Stanley several years ago when we attended the same church. I'm not a psychopath and neither were the other folks in our congregation. Stanley was a good teacher but a bit of a monotone during the songs. I hope he is still doing well. Good man.
  - bmj 8y ago
    Well, Stanley is known for overstatement, and there's a good chance this is hagiographic. But, I take the point to be that we need to be on guard about what we call worship because it does form us.

rjmunro 8y ago

I think that to people who haven't spent serious time listening to it, all organ/choral music "sounds the same".

explorigin 8y ago
Let me add some texture to my comment. When I flip through radio stations in the car, I can always identify the contemporary christian station by the music style regardless of if I've heard the song before. It's not about not hearing enough of the music to differentiate songs. It's that they all have the same elements...like Taco Bell, it's only 7 ingredients.
wbl 8y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MwDDK3jodw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MwDDK3jodw is Eric Whitacre. It's recent. Now contrast to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY4DCG-nFBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY4DCG-nFBI by Martin Luther. I doubt those two can ever be confused. And that's not even Xenakis! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jESS3gP1GGE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jESS3gP1GGE

reaperducer 8y ago

If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. For those interested in this sort of thing, Minnesota Public Radio's app has an entire streaming channel of choral music.

cvwright 8y ago

> If you were influenced by a high-church growing up, you're more likely appreciate hymns. Counterpoint: Lots of people, especially those who had not-great experiences growing up in the church, tend to go hard in a different direction when they grow up. In "Blue Like Jazz", Donald Miller talks about how he thinks it would be super cool to belong to a relatively obscure (in the US) denomination like the Greek Orthodox --- that is, unless he had grown up Greek Orthodox. Then he thinks it would be totally lame and predictable.