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#1 on the list is: First of all, love the Lord God with your whole heart, your whole soul, and your whole strength. I'm an atheist - I am unable and unwilling

#1 on the list is: First of all, love the Lord God with your whole heart, your whole soul, and your whole strength. I'm an atheist - I am unable and unwilling to comply with this CoC. So yes, I would say that I am affected. Other well known religious folk in the foss world, such as Larry Wall, do not insist on this kind of exclusion.

exolymph 8y ago
From the preface: "The entire rule is good and wholesome, and yet we make no enforcement of the more introspective aspects."
virtuexru 8y ago
> I'm an atheist Don't worry! You can still use SQLite as God is infinite in his grace.
runjake 8y ago
Good news, the CoC is inclusive for you, with the following: "those who wish to participate" ... "are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that honors the overarching spirit of the rule, even if they disagree with specific details. Polite and professional discussion is always welcomed, from anyone." In other words, calm down.
- roguecoder 8y ago
  The overarching spirit of The Rule of St. Benedict is service to Christ.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - qbaqbaqba 8y ago
    So? What's wrong with that? Your service to humankind may as well be a service to Christ. And you are the one to decide what server the Christ.
    - whorleater 8y ago
      >Your service to humankind may as well be a service to Christ. You cannot say this and believe that this CoC is inclusive then.
      - Redoubts 8y ago
        I suppose it isn't inclusive to the spiteful, but oh well.
      - qbaqbaqba 8y ago
        Why? Can you give an example of someone that would be excluded?
- vor_ 8y ago
  If the religious requirements of the CoC aren't going to be enforced, there's no reason for them. They exist because Richard Hipp is religious.
  - jlillyreed 8y ago
    They exist because this is a bad faith effort of creating a CoC that only exists to mock the idea of CoCs
- iodiniemetra 8y ago
  > disagree with specific details Ah yes, "is there a god or not" is a specific detail, especially when it's in the context of a whole series of religiously motivated directives. /s I hardly think that a repudiation of a set of CoC terms that I find directly exclusionary to me counts as warranting "calm down". I won't, thanks!
- raspie 8y ago
  That's as much inclusiveness as "stop hitting yourself" is your friend's good advice. If the CoC started with "First of all, purge any God from your heart" you wouldn't have thought twice about condemning it. But no, the atheists should just suck it up.
  - i_am_right 8y ago
    Leftist Atheist here... I have no problem with this Code of Conduct. This isn't like "In god we trust" on our currency or the 10 Commandments in our courthouses. I could contribute to this project with a clear conscience because a lot of what I believe is very much in line with Christ's (if he even actually existed) actual teachings. Take care of the poor. Don't judge people who have differing lifestyles than you do. Love your neighbor. Do unto others. Etc. I think the Golden Rule is a wonderful Code of Conduct and it's how I try to live my life. If only more people followed that rule.
    - raspie 8y ago
      Sure, I follow the categorical imperative myself. The author had a chance to make his CoC the golden rule. But instead he made a deeply religious statement. He has full right to do what he wants, but to also claim that this is somehow inclusive because you can close your eyes to things incompatible with you is nonsense, sorry. All religions teach largely the same good things, but you generally won't see their devotees agreeing to any document that proclaims their love for a different God. And yet atheists are expected to swallow that. No thanks.
      - fareesh 8y ago
        Swallow how though? Feel dirty when submitting a patch? I really don't understand the west's fascination with these codes and statements. Why not just do your work and avoid drama? By standing up for/against things like CoC as opposed to actual incidents, nothing is really achieved except - I believe the term is bike shedding? Open source exists so that everyone can contribute their talents to something that benefits everybody. If Joseph Stalin or bin Laden wrote a great patch, I'd want it. We'd all be better for it. We can fight his ideas in a different arena. It doesn't have to be the SQLite mailing list. It is not a sensible place to have these other types of ideological battles. Here in the third world life is hard. Business ethics are non existent, workplaces are dominated by obsession with job security. If you have to make a life for yourself, you have to do your work. I find perhaps the greatest "white privilege" as it seems to be called in the west, is having the luxury of debating CoCs instead of supporting yourself and your family.
- oaktowner 8y ago
  It's weird, though, right? I mean, flip the logic. What if someone had a code of conduct that was clearly about people treating each other well...but started it with "First, you must acknowledge that there is no God." Or "First you must acknowledge that Mohammad is God's messenger." Or "First you must accept the mitzvot as binding." Or "Brahman is Truth and Reality." None of these is promoting inclusion. That said: I'm an observer here. I haven't chosen to participate or not participate in the SQLite community because of this. I simply think it's a strange place to promote one's religion, and it doesn't surprise me that non-Christians might find it unwelcoming.
  - rphlx 8y ago
    I reject this premise that every CoC must "promote inclusion" i.e. be approved in full by some social marxist Politburo notionally intended to protect everyone's "feelings" by expunging and banning everything that might be considered "offensive". If you want that for your own project, fine, but you have no right to force it onto others. In any case, western civ has deep roots in the christian tradition and I don't know any atheists that are so extremely fragile or sensitive that they are "offended" by simply seeing people repeating 1500+ year old fragments of it. Especially when they use the disclaimers that were used here.
    - oaktowner 8y ago
      I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything, and I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that I am. If someone wants their OSS project to be appealing to the 1/6th of the people in the world who consider themselves to be Christians, that's fine. If they want to try to be appealing to, say, 7/7ths of the developers out there, they might want to do something different.
      - Const-me 8y ago
        > appealing to the 1/6th of the people in the world who consider themselves to be Christians I don’t consider myself Christians but I like CoC a lot. It even made me think why I only used sqlite when I had to. To me the CoC doesn’t say I’m excluded. It says a couple of other things however, that author’s not ashamed of who he is, he’s sincere, and he knows about 1st amendment. I think all of these things are good.
- gonvaled 8y ago
  In other words, hot air. Something written, without the explicit goal of being enforced, or expected, whatsoever. He could have equally written: "We expect those participating in the SQLite project to murder at least three people by Sunday - but if you don't do it, it is fine too"
coleifer 8y ago
You wanna know how to tell if someone is an atheist? > I'm an atheist Oh wait, it doesn't matter -- they'll be sure to tell you.
- iodiniemetra 8y ago
  When it's in relation to a post asking, "who's really excluded", I think it's appropriate.
  - coleifer 8y ago
    I'm pretty sure, if you are offended by the word God, you can substitute another word, such as "Ayn Rand" or "the human intellect". Nobodys insisting that you have to do...anything really.
    - iodiniemetra 8y ago
      I am not offended by someone's personally held religious beliefs. I am, however, deliberately excluded if participating means adhering to a code of conduct that targets my beliefs.
      - turkeysandwich 8y ago
        Read the CoC more carefully. Adherence is not mandatory.
  - qbaqbaqba 8y ago
    No one is excluded.
- pjscott 8y ago
  A general problem with this genre of claims is that they're pure confirmation bias: you don't notice the people who don't tell you, because they don't tell you.
  - 8y ago
HarryHirsch 8y ago
Anyone familiar with Christian tradition will understand the reference to the Gospel: Jesus says that "love God" and "love your neighbour" (# 2 on the list) are the chief commandments and equally important. That's fine. Even if atheists think nothing of God anyone can think the best of the next man. But how am I to understand the requirement in the Ada Initiative-derived FreeBSD code of conduct? In all seriousness, it demands that contributors do not selectively quote from private communication to give a false impression! Is there a special spirituality behind it, a context that I'm not aware of, or are they just stating the obvious? And who needs to be told the rudiments of human interaction in this form? Best, let's stay away from this morass. If the FreeBSD crowd needs to be told that to function, that's a bad sign.
legostormtroopr 8y ago
So your issue isn't with the Code of Conduct, its with the people badgering them to implement one. The maintainers (and only contributors) implemented a Code of Conduct in line with their community.
ericnyamu 8y ago
Your day in hell is coming very soon.you say God doesnot exist ?that is blasphemy.

exolymph 8y ago

From the preface: "The entire rule is good and wholesome, and yet we make no enforcement of the more introspective aspects."

virtuexru 8y ago

> I'm an atheist Don't worry! You can still use SQLite as God is infinite in his grace.

runjake 8y ago

Good news, the CoC is inclusive for you, with the following: "those who wish to participate" ... "are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that honors the overarching spirit of the rule, even if they disagree with specific details. Polite and professional discussion is always welcomed, from anyone." In other words, calm down.

roguecoder 8y ago
The overarching spirit of The Rule of St. Benedict is service to Christ.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- qbaqbaqba 8y ago
  So? What's wrong with that? Your service to humankind may as well be a service to Christ. And you are the one to decide what server the Christ.
  - whorleater 8y ago
    >Your service to humankind may as well be a service to Christ. You cannot say this and believe that this CoC is inclusive then.
    - Redoubts 8y ago
      I suppose it isn't inclusive to the spiteful, but oh well.
    - qbaqbaqba 8y ago
      Why? Can you give an example of someone that would be excluded?
vor_ 8y ago
If the religious requirements of the CoC aren't going to be enforced, there's no reason for them. They exist because Richard Hipp is religious.
- jlillyreed 8y ago
  They exist because this is a bad faith effort of creating a CoC that only exists to mock the idea of CoCs
iodiniemetra 8y ago
> disagree with specific details Ah yes, "is there a god or not" is a specific detail, especially when it's in the context of a whole series of religiously motivated directives. /s I hardly think that a repudiation of a set of CoC terms that I find directly exclusionary to me counts as warranting "calm down". I won't, thanks!
raspie 8y ago
That's as much inclusiveness as "stop hitting yourself" is your friend's good advice. If the CoC started with "First of all, purge any God from your heart" you wouldn't have thought twice about condemning it. But no, the atheists should just suck it up.
- i_am_right 8y ago
  Leftist Atheist here... I have no problem with this Code of Conduct. This isn't like "In god we trust" on our currency or the 10 Commandments in our courthouses. I could contribute to this project with a clear conscience because a lot of what I believe is very much in line with Christ's (if he even actually existed) actual teachings. Take care of the poor. Don't judge people who have differing lifestyles than you do. Love your neighbor. Do unto others. Etc. I think the Golden Rule is a wonderful Code of Conduct and it's how I try to live my life. If only more people followed that rule.
  - raspie 8y ago
    Sure, I follow the categorical imperative myself. The author had a chance to make his CoC the golden rule. But instead he made a deeply religious statement. He has full right to do what he wants, but to also claim that this is somehow inclusive because you can close your eyes to things incompatible with you is nonsense, sorry. All religions teach largely the same good things, but you generally won't see their devotees agreeing to any document that proclaims their love for a different God. And yet atheists are expected to swallow that. No thanks.
    - fareesh 8y ago
      Swallow how though? Feel dirty when submitting a patch? I really don't understand the west's fascination with these codes and statements. Why not just do your work and avoid drama? By standing up for/against things like CoC as opposed to actual incidents, nothing is really achieved except - I believe the term is bike shedding? Open source exists so that everyone can contribute their talents to something that benefits everybody. If Joseph Stalin or bin Laden wrote a great patch, I'd want it. We'd all be better for it. We can fight his ideas in a different arena. It doesn't have to be the SQLite mailing list. It is not a sensible place to have these other types of ideological battles. Here in the third world life is hard. Business ethics are non existent, workplaces are dominated by obsession with job security. If you have to make a life for yourself, you have to do your work. I find perhaps the greatest "white privilege" as it seems to be called in the west, is having the luxury of debating CoCs instead of supporting yourself and your family.
oaktowner 8y ago
It's weird, though, right? I mean, flip the logic. What if someone had a code of conduct that was clearly about people treating each other well...but started it with "First, you must acknowledge that there is no God." Or "First you must acknowledge that Mohammad is God's messenger." Or "First you must accept the mitzvot as binding." Or "Brahman is Truth and Reality." None of these is promoting inclusion. That said: I'm an observer here. I haven't chosen to participate or not participate in the SQLite community because of this. I simply think it's a strange place to promote one's religion, and it doesn't surprise me that non-Christians might find it unwelcoming.
- rphlx 8y ago
  I reject this premise that every CoC must "promote inclusion" i.e. be approved in full by some social marxist Politburo notionally intended to protect everyone's "feelings" by expunging and banning everything that might be considered "offensive". If you want that for your own project, fine, but you have no right to force it onto others. In any case, western civ has deep roots in the christian tradition and I don't know any atheists that are so extremely fragile or sensitive that they are "offended" by simply seeing people repeating 1500+ year old fragments of it. Especially when they use the disclaimers that were used here.
  - oaktowner 8y ago
    I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything, and I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that I am. If someone wants their OSS project to be appealing to the 1/6th of the people in the world who consider themselves to be Christians, that's fine. If they want to try to be appealing to, say, 7/7ths of the developers out there, they might want to do something different.
    - Const-me 8y ago
      > appealing to the 1/6th of the people in the world who consider themselves to be Christians I don’t consider myself Christians but I like CoC a lot. It even made me think why I only used sqlite when I had to. To me the CoC doesn’t say I’m excluded. It says a couple of other things however, that author’s not ashamed of who he is, he’s sincere, and he knows about 1st amendment. I think all of these things are good.
gonvaled 8y ago
In other words, hot air. Something written, without the explicit goal of being enforced, or expected, whatsoever. He could have equally written: "We expect those participating in the SQLite project to murder at least three people by Sunday - but if you don't do it, it is fine too"

coleifer 8y ago

You wanna know how to tell if someone is an atheist? > I'm an atheist Oh wait, it doesn't matter -- they'll be sure to tell you.

iodiniemetra 8y ago
When it's in relation to a post asking, "who's really excluded", I think it's appropriate.
- coleifer 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure, if you are offended by the word God, you can substitute another word, such as "Ayn Rand" or "the human intellect". Nobodys insisting that you have to do...anything really.
  - iodiniemetra 8y ago
    I am not offended by someone's personally held religious beliefs. I am, however, deliberately excluded if participating means adhering to a code of conduct that targets my beliefs.
    - turkeysandwich 8y ago
      Read the CoC more carefully. Adherence is not mandatory.
- qbaqbaqba 8y ago
  No one is excluded.
pjscott 8y ago
A general problem with this genre of claims is that they're pure confirmation bias: you don't notice the people who don't tell you, because they don't tell you.
- 8y ago

HarryHirsch 8y ago

Anyone familiar with Christian tradition will understand the reference to the Gospel: Jesus says that "love God" and "love your neighbour" (# 2 on the list) are the chief commandments and equally important. That's fine. Even if atheists think nothing of God anyone can think the best of the next man. But how am I to understand the requirement in the Ada Initiative-derived FreeBSD code of conduct? In all seriousness, it demands that contributors do not selectively quote from private communication to give a false impression! Is there a special spirituality behind it, a context that I'm not aware of, or are they just stating the obvious? And who needs to be told the rudiments of human interaction in this form? Best, let's stay away from this morass. If the FreeBSD crowd needs to be told that to function, that's a bad sign.

legostormtroopr 8y ago

So your issue isn't with the Code of Conduct, its with the people badgering them to implement one. The maintainers (and only contributors) implemented a Code of Conduct in line with their community.

ericnyamu 8y ago

Your day in hell is coming very soon.you say God doesnot exist ?that is blasphemy.