6 ms·

Google is also a very good learning opportunity; there is lots of training available to employees, you will be working with very talented people, and will get t

Google is also a very good learning opportunity; there is lots of training available to employees, you will be working with very talented people, and will get to see how the planet-scale dogfood is made first hand.

zerr 8y ago
I've heard that many things are arcane in-house proprietary stuff, not easily transferable knowledge/experience.
- refulgentis 8y ago
  Put another way, you'll learn much more about how to identify and work with talented people on difficult projects at Google than at a startup. At a startup you're worried about how you'll pack a bologna sandwich for lunch tomorrow, at Google you're a sous chef for a 5 star banquet hall in NYC.
  - dmarlow 8y ago
    I think it goes both ways. There are plenty mundane things at BigCo for people to do.
    - refulgentis 8y ago
      I've done both extremes, and you're absolutely right, but the point still stands no matter how many cases we can find that might hint at the opposite :)
- mav3rick 8y ago
  That is not true. No matter the shit Google gets on HN it's a tremendous place to learn and grow. All the large scale systems you see now were first invented at Google and now are replicated at Facebook etc.. The code reviews alone will make you a better programmer and working with senior people will give you an appreciation for designing complex systems. It's a great place to work IMO.
- tastyham 8y ago
  > arcane in-house proprietary stuff Just like any other successful company that does something interesting and has been around more than a couple of years.
- Mr_P 8y ago
  This used to be the case, but these days many fundamental Google tools are open. Borg is Kubernetes, flume is externally available as Google Cloud Dataflow (it's basically Apache Beam), Tensorflow is open source, many of Google's internal java libraries and tools are available externally (Guava, Guice, Dagger), and absl (c++ common libraries) are also available externally. More importantly, assuming you land on a team with strong software engineering culture (this is likely, but admittedly not guaranteed, even at Google), the general skills you pick up for software design, planning, testing, etc. are transferable anywhere. That said, all of this applies mostly to software engineers. If you're applying for an SRE position, then I've heard the experience is less transferable, but it's not something I could comment on first hand.
  - skj 8y ago
    Borg is not very much like kubernetes from the config or run side. Maybe underlying both are containers, but it's really pretty different.
  - mk89 8y ago
    Flume is not comparable to Google cloud dataflow nor beam. But I understand your point.
- daveFNbuck 8y ago
  That's true about many of the specific tools you learn, but you also learn a lot of generic development skills that no one will take the time to teach you at a startup.
- modeless 8y ago
  Google's CI system is proprietary, but learning how a CI system should work is valuable. Google's code review system is proprietary, but learning how code review should work is valuable. Repeat for every proprietary system Google has. When I left Google for a startup, all the tools I took for granted didn't exist. But because I knew how things could and should work, I was able to apply open source and commercially available tools to improve software development practices at my new employer.
- cynicalkane 8y ago
  Google's in-house tools are generally stronger than the publicly available stuff across the board. Ex-Googlers are more often frustrated not by a lack of ability with those tools, but knowing what they can't do with them. Also, Google's best tools are increasingly open-source.
pickgoogle 8y ago
> you will be working with very talented people Do you think they are more talented than other companies, like, say, Amazon?
- dmarlow 8y ago
  Maybe a higher ratio overall?
  - pickgoogle 8y ago
    I see. Do you think people at Amazon are inferior?
    - dang 8y ago
      The previous account you created to post these is one that we ended up having to ban for trolling. We've banned this account. Please stop creating accounts to do this, or we'll ban your main account as well.
- Youden 8y ago
  Really, for the most part, the talent goes to the best places to work. That's subjective but the major factors for most people are mission (e.g. charity good, privacy violation bad), working environment and compensation. Amazon isn't really particularly good at any of these, so you'll tend to find more talent at places that do better. Facebook and Google both have better compensation and from what I've heard from friends (who've also had experience with Amazon), both also have a better working environment.

zerr 8y ago

I've heard that many things are arcane in-house proprietary stuff, not easily transferable knowledge/experience.

refulgentis 8y ago
Put another way, you'll learn much more about how to identify and work with talented people on difficult projects at Google than at a startup. At a startup you're worried about how you'll pack a bologna sandwich for lunch tomorrow, at Google you're a sous chef for a 5 star banquet hall in NYC.
- dmarlow 8y ago
  I think it goes both ways. There are plenty mundane things at BigCo for people to do.
  - refulgentis 8y ago
    I've done both extremes, and you're absolutely right, but the point still stands no matter how many cases we can find that might hint at the opposite :)
mav3rick 8y ago
That is not true. No matter the shit Google gets on HN it's a tremendous place to learn and grow. All the large scale systems you see now were first invented at Google and now are replicated at Facebook etc.. The code reviews alone will make you a better programmer and working with senior people will give you an appreciation for designing complex systems. It's a great place to work IMO.
tastyham 8y ago
> arcane in-house proprietary stuff Just like any other successful company that does something interesting and has been around more than a couple of years.
Mr_P 8y ago
This used to be the case, but these days many fundamental Google tools are open. Borg is Kubernetes, flume is externally available as Google Cloud Dataflow (it's basically Apache Beam), Tensorflow is open source, many of Google's internal java libraries and tools are available externally (Guava, Guice, Dagger), and absl (c++ common libraries) are also available externally. More importantly, assuming you land on a team with strong software engineering culture (this is likely, but admittedly not guaranteed, even at Google), the general skills you pick up for software design, planning, testing, etc. are transferable anywhere. That said, all of this applies mostly to software engineers. If you're applying for an SRE position, then I've heard the experience is less transferable, but it's not something I could comment on first hand.
- skj 8y ago
  Borg is not very much like kubernetes from the config or run side. Maybe underlying both are containers, but it's really pretty different.
- mk89 8y ago
  Flume is not comparable to Google cloud dataflow nor beam. But I understand your point.
daveFNbuck 8y ago
That's true about many of the specific tools you learn, but you also learn a lot of generic development skills that no one will take the time to teach you at a startup.
modeless 8y ago
Google's CI system is proprietary, but learning how a CI system should work is valuable. Google's code review system is proprietary, but learning how code review should work is valuable. Repeat for every proprietary system Google has. When I left Google for a startup, all the tools I took for granted didn't exist. But because I knew how things could and should work, I was able to apply open source and commercially available tools to improve software development practices at my new employer.
cynicalkane 8y ago
Google's in-house tools are generally stronger than the publicly available stuff across the board. Ex-Googlers are more often frustrated not by a lack of ability with those tools, but knowing what they can't do with them. Also, Google's best tools are increasingly open-source.

pickgoogle 8y ago

> you will be working with very talented people Do you think they are more talented than other companies, like, say, Amazon?

dmarlow 8y ago
Maybe a higher ratio overall?
- pickgoogle 8y ago
  I see. Do you think people at Amazon are inferior?
  - dang 8y ago
    The previous account you created to post these is one that we ended up having to ban for trolling. We've banned this account. Please stop creating accounts to do this, or we'll ban your main account as well.
Youden 8y ago
Really, for the most part, the talent goes to the best places to work. That's subjective but the major factors for most people are mission (e.g. charity good, privacy violation bad), working environment and compensation. Amazon isn't really particularly good at any of these, so you'll tend to find more talent at places that do better. Facebook and Google both have better compensation and from what I've heard from friends (who've also had experience with Amazon), both also have a better working environment.